Brexit or Britin

[TANGODANCER]

There might be to you, but imagine you are Scottish and for decades have been under a government for the most part you never voted for and can do nothing about. Do you not see why they may feel the way they do?

I like you want the UK to stay as one but I can very clearly see why some Scots have the issue they do. I don't agree with Sturgeon's separatist policies. But I do respect her and feel she speaks to the voters who elected her immeasurably better than anyone at Westminster does.

I'm not. I'm English (more Irish from my father's generations of them, than anything and can see their views just as easily as the Scots if we're being historical), English born, English raised and will die English. If you want to hop over the border via the River Tweed or someting, go ahead, there's nothing stopping you. If you do a few years and eat enough haggis they may even let you live there as a resident. Jokes aside, we've had all the Sons of Glendower (Bobo can do the correct spelling) Willie Wallace, and all that stuff for so many years, probably always will, but admiring Nicola Sturgeon's patriotism to Scotland means nothing at all to me when it comes to her screwing up the UK. She's Scottish and wants to cut ties with us, fine, what should I do, buy a set of bagpipes, don a kilt and march on Westminster? Admire her dedication I may, but I'm a Sasenach so that's what I care about. You think as you will and I'll do likewise, thank you very much...

[Worthy4England]

Can we just get on and leave, please? Debate done. We need people to deliver on their promises and move on. I want Boris/Gove in positions of power so they can execute what they promised. I'd like Farage in some capacity to represent "the working man". I really wouldn't want it to confuse the next election on the basis "It's nearly sorted bit it'll take another 5 years to filter through and the reason it's not happened yet is the EU is screwing us"

Why rush?

Isn't it in all our interests to leave when it suits us, with the best deal possible?.

Why wait until October so the Tories can pick a new leader? That shouldn't need to take 4 months.

They then have two years to get the best deal possible.

The negative effects of "When are we going?" Probably aren't going to help the economy, much.

And I really don't want to be hearing at the next General Election, all these things would've been great, if only we weren't in the middle of leaving the EU.

[thebish]

Separatism isn't your thing yet you wanted to leave the EU?

I mean Westminster is quite possibly Scotland's version of the EU. Being run by people they don't elect and don't want. Have you thought of that? Also what choice did Cameron have? Told everyone how disastrous he believed leaving would be. He could then hardly stay on and pretend he believes he can make it ok. One of the few decisions I really respect him for making. Could have hung around and clung on but made a decent decision. Ultimately he had little choice, was just a question of when.

Do be realistic mate. There's just a real difference in splitting the UK apart than cutting ourselves off from Brussels and the rest which the referendum was all about. "Make sure you have your passport ready for a day trip to Pwlleli or Aberystwyth" or
" Massive queues at Gretna Green border control as Scottish Custom workers hold a one day strike" . Splendid.

aye - but - as I asked before - what of the border between NI and ROI? to use your language... "day trip from belfast to dublin, have your passport ready..." that border now seems like an obvious pinch-point for the labour and goods that can freely move across the EU into ROI... what happens when that labour force reaches the border with NI?

dinghy-sales in ROI could boom - there's summat to invest in...

[thebish]

meanwhile... one of the three main credit rating agencies has cut the UK's credit rating...

[BWFC_Insane]

meanwhile... one of the three main credit rating agencies has cut the UK's credit rating...

Glad we did all that austerity stuff to maintain our credit rating!

[Beefheart]

meanwhile... one of the three main credit rating agencies has cut the UK's credit rating...

Glad we did all that austerity stuff to maintain our credit rating!

At least the cost of debt will fall slightly as inflation picks up due to the fecked pound. That is of course until we're forced to increase interest rates and the housing market goes tits up. I guess I'll wait a bit longer to buy.

[Prufrock]

I really can't stand Farage, but I've seen so many people on Twitter regurgitating the garbage that is his interview concerning the NHS not getting the £350m.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know Farage never even made that claim. It was Vote Leave who were making that claim and had it plastered on their bus etc. So until Boris and Gove come out and say it isn't happening then it's a completely moot point.

It's like holding Jeremy Corbyn responsible for a claim that David Cameron made.

I do still expect them to back-peddle on the promise, because we all know that the actual net value (after we get funding back) is about half of that amount. Whether the remaining amount will end up at the NHS or not I really don't know. I hope it does because I want to see them at least partially deliver on that promise.

And Dan Hannan coming out today and saying immigration won't he massively cut either, but that he never said it would.

Good luck lads, telling the people who voted for leave that cut immigration and extra funding for the NHS wasn't actually what they were promised!

[Prufrock]

I think there's a version of the EU there'd be an overwhelming majority for. Basically a trading block with the eu keeping it's neb out of everything that wasn't standardisation, and free movement limited to travel and maybe freedom to move permanently if you already had a job offer/ sponsor.

I think plenty of remainers myself included would want that as the ideal, but thought we couldn't get it and would be better off in as now than completely out.

I think plenty of leavers would want that as the ideal but thought that either: voting out would get us that, or, we couldn't get it and would be better off completely out than in as now.

Only problem is I don't think there's a hope in hell the EU will go for that (which it's a shame as there'll be a hell of a wobble now in France, Holland Greece and more).

Nevertheless there is a conversation that Boris' people are or will have very soon along the lines of "So you have Cameron f*ck all because you thought we'd stay. Fancy changing your mind?".

In the absence of their surprise agreement, or 2008 style armageddon in the UK alone, we're leaving, and folk need to stop signing daft petitions. I don't like it either, but we lost. What's happens if there's another referendum and remain win and leave start a petition?

You've more or less described the EEC Pru. An entity I voted to be in and would still.

The EU however. Quite a different thing.

Have I really, fancy that ?!

Think that's what almost everyone wants, fringe wanting us to join a USE on one side, and become Europe's North Korea on the other. Problem is EEC isn't on the table (and I don't think will be).

So you got a debate where one side could only really argue that yes, sure, the EU is rubbish, but it'll be worse if we leave, how inspiring, and other got to claim every problem we have is down to this organisation that even the people campaigning to stay don't like.

[TANGODANCER]

Separatism isn't your thing yet you wanted to leave the EU?

I mean Westminster is quite possibly Scotland's version of the EU. Being run by people they don't elect and don't want. Have you thought of that? Also what choice did Cameron have? Told everyone how disastrous he believed leaving would be. He could then hardly stay on and pretend he believes he can make it ok. One of the few decisions I really respect him for making. Could have hung around and clung on but made a decent decision. Ultimately he had little choice, was just a question of when.

Do be realistic mate. There's just a real difference in splitting the UK apart than cutting ourselves off from Brussels and the rest which the referendum was all about. "Make sure you have your passport ready for a day trip to Pwlleli or Aberystwyth" or
" Massive queues at Gretna Green border control as Scottish Custom workers hold a one day strike" . Splendid.

aye - but - as I asked before - what of the border between NI and ROI? to use your language... "day trip from belfast to dublin, have your passport ready..." that border now seems like an obvious pinch-point for the labour and goods that can freely move across the EU into ROI... what happens when that labour force reaches the border with NI?

dinghy-sales in ROI could boom - there's summat to invest in...

Do you know the answers? Why ask me,anyone questions you can't answer yourself. Does the statement "I haven't the faintest idea" not register with you? I've admitted times enough that I just don't know; if you do, why ask me? Nobody knows right now, that's why McGuinness is debating his next move just like his Scottish counterpart. If Scotland or Northern Ireland choose to try breaking with the UK,( The R.O.I did that in 1922), then what their aims will be apart from a point-proving independence excercise I know not. We can only hope sense is seen somewhere since our petualant leader, our one really experienced politician and supposedly Prime Minister representing the people of England has now decided to scuttle off with a "Why should I do all the hard work?" attitude. I'll repeat, I voted Conservative for the first time in my life because Cameron seemed the best and most sensible of the bunch for running our country. His second term, I voted Conservative again be cause he was the experienced one at home and international politics (for what they are). Now, he ceases to be Prime Mimister and reverts to being just another Conservative. If you can do a Mystic Vic and tell me what will happen I'll suggest you as P.M.

[Worthy4England]

I thought we were going to get chopped off at the knee if we left according to remain?

I see you're ability to misinterpret things has remained rock-solid. This is good, because no one actually predicted that would change in any event.

Nowt in what was quoted there says there's some sort of quick and preferential deal just around the corner. Mind we are the 5th biggest economy in the world so we're holding plenty of cards.

"What's that you say? Our GDP is actually smaller than the States of California and Texas combined?". Great our position of power should be almost overwhelming. Donald and Hillary will be positively quaking.

All we have to do is get the USA to vote to go back to independent States and we'll be sorted. Still we've got two years to crack it.

[Nicko58]

meanwhile... one of the three main credit rating agencies has cut the UK's credit rating...

Glad we did all that austerity stuff to maintain our credit rating!

They haven't downgraded the credit rating, they've downgraded the credit outlook. That can't be a good thing but it's probably important to acknowledge the difference between the two.

[Worthy4England]

Nigel Evans - twisting and turning on whether immigration would come down as a result of leaving the EU.

Hardly an unequivocal "Absolutely". In fact more of a "running 500 miles in the opposite direction"....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03zfw9m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[thebish]

Tango had a blustery and petulant reply too long to quote...

Hmmm, Tango... The thing is you were stressing how totally different it was to leave the EU and for (say) Scotland to break from the UK because (you said) it would be ridiculous to have borders for passport showing.

Yet - this is exactly the kind of thing we will now have to do somehow on our ROI border. In other words, the situations are NOT (as you claim) totally different, they are very similar.

[Worthy4England]

£25 to join the Conservative Party.

Worth every penny to vote for Boris.

[TANGODANCER]

Tango had a blustery and petulant reply too long to quote...

Hmmm, Tango... The thing is you were stressing how totally different it was to leave the EU and for (say) Scotland to break from the UK because (you said) it would be ridiculous to have borders for passport showing. Yet - this is exactly the kind of thing we will now have to do somehow on our ROI border. In other words, the situations are NOT (as you claim) totally different, they are very similar.

No, I didn't. And your point is, remembering that all the other members can read and know exactly what I said? Try not to use the word "Tango" in your reply if possible. I feel you're becoming obsessed with it.

[thebish]

£25 to join the Conservative Party.

Worth every penny to vote for Boris.

Bobo got a cheaper deal to vote for corbyn.. Tories = robbing bstards!

[Prufrock]

£25 to join the Conservative Party.

Worth every penny to vote for Boris.

That's no use as Boris would actually win a general election

[BWFC_Insane]

£25 to join the Conservative Party.

Worth every penny to vote for Boris.

That's no use as Boris would actually win a general election

Aye. Voting Boris in is madness. We'd have a mad right wing nice person in power for a decade.

[Hoboh]

Tango had a blustery and petulant reply too long to quote...

Hmmm, Tango... The thing is you were stressing how totally different it was to leave the EU and for (say) Scotland to break from the UK because (you said) it would be ridiculous to have borders for passport showing.

Yet - this is exactly the kind of thing we will now have to do somehow on our ROI border. In other words, the situations are NOT (as you claim) totally different, they are very similar.

I'm back to where I started with Scotland, leave, seal the borders, refuse to accept any Scottish pound, sever all financial ties with immediate effect and withdraw all MOD staff and equipment. Build the new frigates in Portsmouth.
Screw them for anything and ban any SNP members from travelling anywhere in the remaining UK, they are political terrorists.

[Hoboh]

£25 to join the Conservative Party.

Worth every penny to vote for Boris.

That's no use as Boris would actually win a general election

Aye. Voting Boris in is madness. We'd have a mad right wing tw*t in power for a decade.

You really are a poor loser are you not?

Whinge, whinge, whinge, you lost the general election, you lost the referendum, notice a pattern emerging?

Never take up betting.