The Politics Thread

[Harry Genshaw]

^
I've given up all hope for the Labour party since Corbyn and the pro-Palestine anti-Israel mob have taken power.

The very essence of the Labour party is about defending the weak against the powerful isn't it?

Whatever your views on the middle east I don't think anyone could view the Palestinian people as being in anything other than a weak position.

[TANGODANCER]

The point is that we could have stayed in the EU and likely affected changes over time. By leaving we probably will have to accept some freedom of movement to secure appropriate trade deals...we may even end up accepting the same freedoms that exist now. Watch this space. May is having to accept everything else so far as our position in this negotiation is incredibly weak.

Without pretending to know politics, that is a purely personal statement based on supposition, wishful thinking and not a shred of fact. Please don't pretend it isn't. We voted to come out of the E.U because we couldn't affect anything and they were the ones doing all the affecting. Or did I get that wrong?

[Prufrock]

^
I've given up all hope for the Labour party since Corbyn and the pro-Palestine anti-Israel mob have taken power.

The very essence of the Labour party is about defending the weak against the powerful isn't it?

Whatever your views on the middle east I don't think anyone could view the Palestinian people as being in anything other than a weak position.

The problems Labour has with antisemitism go some distance beyond supporting an underdog

[Prufrock]

The point is that we could have stayed in the EU and likely affected changes over time. By leaving we probably will have to accept some freedom of movement to secure appropriate trade deals...we may even end up accepting the same freedoms that exist now. Watch this space. May is having to accept everything else so far as our position in this negotiation is incredibly weak.

Without pretending to know politics, that is a purely personal statement based on supposition, wishful thinking and not a shred of fact. Please don't pretend it isn't. We voted to come out of the E.U because we couldn't affect anything and they were the ones doing all the affecting. Or did I get that wrong?

That is a purely personal statement based on supposition, wishful thinking and not a shred of fact. Please don't pretend it isn't

[BWFC_Insane]

The point is that we could have stayed in the EU and likely affected changes over time. By leaving we probably will have to accept some freedom of movement to secure appropriate trade deals...we may even end up accepting the same freedoms that exist now. Watch this space. May is having to accept everything else so far as our position in this negotiation is incredibly weak.

Without pretending to know politics, that is a purely personal statement based on supposition, wishful thinking and not a shred of fact. Please don't pretend it isn't. We voted to come out of the E.U because we couldn't affect anything and they were the ones doing all the affecting. Or did I get that wrong?

Well, we didn't get what we wanted because instead of working with France and Germany and the like, we acted like a special case and threw our toys out of the pram.

Instead of actively working and saying "the EU administration is not working in our best interests what can we all do about it" we threatened to leave, demanded special dispensation (rather than suggesting the rules change for all) and put everyone's backs up.

Similarly we entered Brexit negotiations with the same attitude and consequently we've bent ourselves over a barrel and the EU are rubbing their hands at our mistakes.

Your post perfectly highlights the problem describing the EU as "they". The EU is a group of countries we WERE the EU. But instead of realising that and working with our fellow club members we saw it as "them against us". And look where we are now.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

We voted to come out of the E.U because we couldn't affect anything and they were the ones doing all the affecting. Or did I get that wrong?

The UK has affected lots of things in the EU over the years, probably more so than many other members. Plenty wrong with the EU and a vote has taken place to leave, so leave we should, but in a way that benefits the UK as a whole and not for a rabid minority of Tory MPs. On the whole the EU has been a very convenient scapegoat for successive governments and their failures.

I wish we could all get beyond the sniping and get on with it. Sadly, there is no chance of that until folk accept we're leaving and more importantly, whilst we have a PM that couldn't run a bath, who is being held captive by a bunch of maniacs that put ideology before all else.

[BWFC_Insane]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42249854

Oh lordy. Sack them. Now.

[Prufrock]

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... brexiteers

[Hoboh]

The point is that we could have stayed in the EU and likely affected changes over time. By leaving we probably will have to accept some freedom of movement to secure appropriate trade deals...we may even end up accepting the same freedoms that exist now. Watch this space. May is having to accept everything else so far as our position in this negotiation is incredibly weak.

Without pretending to know politics, that is a purely personal statement based on supposition, wishful thinking and not a shred of fact. Please don't pretend it isn't. We voted to come out of the E.U because we couldn't affect anything and they were the ones doing all the affecting. Or did I get that wrong?

That is a purely personal statement based on supposition, wishful thinking and not a shred of fact. Please don't pretend it isn't

Oh, so you know for a fact that no one voted to leave the EU because of a belief, that at best, affecting anything meant years of backroom talks about talks about whatever was to be discussed?
Confusing personal statements some what?

[Hoboh]

We voted to come out of the E.U because we couldn't affect anything and they were the ones doing all the affecting. Or did I get that wrong?

The UK has affected lots of things in the EU over the years, probably more so than many other members. Plenty wrong with the EU and a vote has taken place to leave, so leave we should, but in a way that benefits the UK as a whole and not for a rabid minority of Tory MPs. On the whole the EU has been a very convenient scapegoat for successive governments and their failures.

I wish we could all get beyond the sniping and get on with it. Sadly, there is no chance of that until folk accept we're leaving and more importantly, whilst we have a PM that couldn't run a bath, who is being held captive by a bunch of maniacs that put ideology before all else.

May and 'Lurch' Hammond are far too weak to be negotiating anything with the Frog in charge of the EU club, the only chance these two have is if the press come up with a stack of dirt on a few of the appointed Gods, otherwise they should both resign and if need be, call a fresh election.

[Hoboh]

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... brexiteers

And?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

We voted to come out of the E.U because we couldn't affect anything and they were the ones doing all the affecting. Or did I get that wrong?

The UK has affected lots of things in the EU over the years, probably more so than many other members. Plenty wrong with the EU and a vote has taken place to leave, so leave we should, but in a way that benefits the UK as a whole and not for a rabid minority of Tory MPs. On the whole the EU has been a very convenient scapegoat for successive governments and their failures.

I wish we could all get beyond the sniping and get on with it. Sadly, there is no chance of that until folk accept we're leaving and more importantly, whilst we have a PM that couldn't run a bath, who is being held captive by a bunch of maniacs that put ideology before all else.

May and 'Lurch' Hammond are far too weak to be negotiating anything with the Frog in charge of the EU club, the only chance these two have is if the press come up with a stack of dirt on a few of the appointed Gods, otherwise they should both resign and if need be, call a fresh election.

Who in the Tory party is capable? because all I have seen is incompetence all round. I doubt Labour would do any better. It's an utterly depressing situation we're in with no one seemingly capable of sorting it out.

[TANGODANCER]

The point is that we could have stayed in the EU and likely affected changes over time. By leaving we probably will have to accept some freedom of movement to secure appropriate trade deals...we may even end up accepting the same freedoms that exist now. Watch this space. May is having to accept everything else so far as our position in this negotiation is incredibly weak.

Without pretending to know politics, that is a purely personal statement based on supposition, wishful thinking and not a shred of fact. Please don't pretend it isn't. We voted to come out of the E.U because we couldn't affect anything and they were the ones doing all the affecting. Or did I get that wrong?

That is a purely personal statement based on supposition, wishful thinking and not a shred of fact. Please don't pretend it isn't

Oh, so you know for a fact that no one voted to leave the EU because of a belief, that at best, affecting anything meant years of backroom talks about talks about whatever was to be discussed?
Confusing personal statements some what?

Have to clarify that I said that Hoboh, and not Prufrock as the quote screw up makes it look. In reply, I know next to shxt about the whole Brexit thing and voted the way I did because I was lead to believe it was the best option. My point was that nobody knows. Even now, does anyone actually know anything for sure? My hand's up for no in my case..Where are the masterminds who dreamed it all up and just how much homework did they actually do before ordering battle buses and sending us to the polls? I have no confidence in the government at best, but I do take notice of what's happening in that great big world out there and wondering where we stand in it all? There are far more factors at work world-wide than what the local yokels in Downing Street seem to accept. Every big country in the world has had an "empire" at some stage by trampling all over people. Weren't we supposed to have scrapped the gunboats, flags and pictures of the Queen along with it all in the name of peaceful co-existence? Seems we're really little further forward than a Dad's Army repeat. Never mind, if we won't go to the world anymore, the world can come to us......oh, now there's another thing....

[Hoboh]

Prufrock, please accept my apology.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Tango - a rough summary...

No one did any proper research into the impact of leaving prior to the referendum - thanks for that Dave and George

Both sides made shit up during the campaign and it depends who you wish to believe were the bigger liars. Georgie Boy told some whoppers but that bus and the back tracking the next day sticks in the throat.

Once it was decided we were leaving the government seemingly hasn't done the required amount of homework to have a clue what to do aside from appease Mogg and co.

Our glorious Home Secretary took the best part of a year after the result to commission a detailed report in to the impact of EU migration on the UK. We are if course well into the negotiating period and it might have been useful to understand immigration needs before the vote before negotiating.

May supposedly delayed triggering article 50 in order to prepare. One might wonder what they've been up to?

May called an unnecessary election that made her hostage to the DUP and Mogg & co

[Hoboh]

Tango - a rough summary...

No one did any proper research into the impact of leaving prior to the referendum - thanks for that Dave and George

Both sides made shit up during the campaign and it depends who you wish to believe were the bigger liars. Georgie Boy told some whoppers but that bus and the back tracking the next day sticks in the throat.

Once it was decided we were leaving the government seemingly hasn't done the required amount of homework to have a clue what to do aside from appease Mogg and co.

Our glorious Home Secretary took the best part of a year after the result to commission a detailed report in to the impact of EU migration on the UK. We are if course well into the negotiating period and it might have been useful to understand immigration needs before the vote before negotiating.

May supposedly delayed triggering article 50 in order to prepare. One might wonder what they've been up to?

May called an unnecessary election that made her hostage to the DUP and Mogg & co

You forgot, Corbyn and Co became opportunistic and swapped sides from anti to pro in the hope of attracting the remainder votes, the lib Dems ordered copious amounts of K Y cream to assist in the (back)passage of anything pro EU and wealthy, vested interest individuals took to the courts to stop a democratic vote or any meaningful negotiations.

[boltonboris]

May called an unnecessary election that made her hostage to the DUP and Mogg & co

At the time, it wasn't unnecessary - It was a smart move. She was miles ahead of Corbyn and Labour and looked like it would be a land slide, but one took a backseat and waited for the apparently inevitable and the other led an energetic, impassioned campaign that whilst very well managed and acted on, has led to a huge increase in division and hatred in this country.

It really was a clusterfuck of epic proportions, the way it all panned out.

[Hoboh]

May called an unnecessary election that made her hostage to the DUP and Mogg & co

At the time, it wasn't unnecessary - It was a smart move. She was miles ahead of Corbyn and Labour and looked like it would be a land slide, but one took a backseat and waited for the apparently inevitable and the other led an energetic, impassioned campaign that whilst very well managed and acted on, has led to a huge increase in division and hatred in this country.

It really was a clusterfuck of epic proportions, the way it all panned out.

Sums up perfectly the last election, one could almost label May a lazy fcuker.

[BWFC_Insane]

May called an unnecessary election that made her hostage to the DUP and Mogg & co

At the time, it wasn't unnecessary - It was a smart move. She was miles ahead of Corbyn and Labour and looked like it would be a land slide, but one took a backseat and waited for the apparently inevitable and the other led an energetic, impassioned campaign that whilst very well managed and acted on, has led to a huge increase in division and hatred in this country.

It really was a clusterfuck of epic proportions, the way it all panned out.

A really odd view. Corbyn spoke to real actual people and engaged them. Agree with him or not, he did that.

May appeared robotic and scared and didn't seem to care for much beyond her own political skin. May also led a campaign based on fear (see why remain lost) rather than positive action. Corbyn promised positive action to people, whether he could deliver it or not.

The real dividing issue was that in the campaign Labour tried to appeal to real concerns people have whereas the Tories tried to play up to the press stereotype of Corbyn led Labour and it backfired spectacularly. Yes they "won" the election but it was an election where going in, even a majority of 50 was a disastrous failure given the advantages they had.

The problems the Tory have since remind me of Major's government. They've been in a long time. Stuff is going wrong. Politically and on a wider basis. They can't really blame others for it, and the party is now starting to turn in on itself. Their only hope is that Labour cannot repeat their last election performance and the press do a good job on Corbyn that resonates more widely and across the younger voters. If not I think the next election will be a hung parliament with Labour marginally ahead of the Tories. Now that would be a mess.

[Harry Genshaw]

^
I've given up all hope for the Labour party since Corbyn and the pro-Palestine anti-Israel mob have taken power.

The very essence of the Labour party is about defending the weak against the powerful isn't it?

Whatever your views on the middle east I don't think anyone could view the Palestinian people as being in anything other than a weak position.

The problems Labour has with antisemitism go some distance beyond supporting an underdog

Not being a member of the Labour party , I'll take your word for that. As someone who is unashamedly pro Palestinian in the middle eastern debate my concern is that too often any questioning of Israel and her policies is wrongly and deliberately labelled as anti semitic. This just shuts down debate as it's intended to.

Meanwhile the suffering of the Palestinian people continues