The Politics Thread

[Lost Leopard Spot]

So, Theresa May’s officially going. The worrying thing now is how the vote of a few thousand tory members is going to choose our next prime minister and hugely influence the most important political situation in our lifetime. Hardly the best example of democratic process.

Also enjoying all the Tory MPs coming out saying how sad it is that she’s leaving!

I think such events should probably automatically trigger general elections. When Blair passed onto Brown for example - that in my view needs a new public mandate not just carrying on.....

I can see why people say this, but the composition of the House of Commons is unchanged, and we merely vote in an MP. We don't vote in a PM, MPs select a PM.

That is true and is of course the reason why it isn't the case. But lets take a scenario here (one that isn't happening now but isn't beyond the bounds of possibility) that the Tories voted for an arch remainer as leader. Who revoked article 50 with parliament's support - which would be quite likely in those circumstances....

I know that won't happen but the point is that when governments change so does policy direction and without a public mandate or assessing the strength of the mandate (when May asked she was shown she had at best the weakest of weak mandates) -you run the risk of runaway governments/parliaments.

Yep. I understand that. But let's face it, even when you vote for a single MP you have no idea what you'll get - even the party manifestos are not sacrosanct, and anyway who the fxck represents all of the myriad issues that face us? Nobody: Kate Hoey is closest to my way of thinking to me, but I get to choose between Patrick fxckingMcLaughlin, some Momentum knob, a completely anonymous Liberal Democrat, or some over the top fruitcake who thinks being a vegan defines the Green movement! And every single time I don't vote McLaughlin, which is every time, he still gets elected!!!!

Up The Revolution comrades....

[BWFC_Insane]

So, Theresa May’s officially going. The worrying thing now is how the vote of a few thousand tory members is going to choose our next prime minister and hugely influence the most important political situation in our lifetime. Hardly the best example of democratic process.

Also enjoying all the Tory MPs coming out saying how sad it is that she’s leaving!

I think such events should probably automatically trigger general elections. When Blair passed onto Brown for example - that in my view needs a new public mandate not just carrying on.....

I can see why people say this, but the composition of the House of Commons is unchanged, and we merely vote in an MP. We don't vote in a PM, MPs select a PM.

That is true and is of course the reason why it isn't the case. But lets take a scenario here (one that isn't happening now but isn't beyond the bounds of possibility) that the Tories voted for an arch remainer as leader. Who revoked article 50 with parliament's support - which would be quite likely in those circumstances....

I know that won't happen but the point is that when governments change so does policy direction and without a public mandate or assessing the strength of the mandate (when May asked she was shown she had at best the weakest of weak mandates) -you run the risk of runaway governments/parliaments.

Yep. I understand that. But let's face it, even when you vote for a single MP you have no idea what you'll get - even the party manifestos are not sacrosanct, and anyway who the fxck represents all of the myriad issues that face us? Nobody: Kate Hoey is closest to my way of thinking to me, but I get to choose between Patrick fxckingMcLaughlin, some Momentum knob, a completely anonymous Liberal Democrat, or some over the top fruitcake who thinks being a vegan defines the Green movement! And every single time I don't vote McLaughlin, which is every time, he still gets elected!!!!

Up The Revolution comrades....

Its a huge problem now. Bigger than ever. Parties simply are not representative anymore. You have a complex society with huge divergence yet ultimately only Labour or the Tories can ever govern. And both parties are so broken that they disagree with themselves more than each other.

[Harry Genshaw]

I think she's been far and away the worst prime minister of my lifetime but whoever replaces her still doesn't have a cat in hells chance of getting a brexit deal through parliament

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I think she's been far and away the worst prime minister of my lifetime but whoever replaces her still doesn't have a cat in hells chance of getting a brexit deal through parliament

But they'll have a bloody good raccoon in hell's chance of leveraging a no deal exit through (by ignoring parliament), which May would never have done.
Still depends on who is picked. Gove the Toad and Silly Boris don't have the balls. Leadsome or Raab may well.
I'm praying (as an atheist ) for Leadsome.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think she's been far and away the worst prime minister of my lifetime but whoever replaces her still doesn't have a cat in hells chance of getting a brexit deal through parliament

But they'll have a bloody good raccoon in hell's chance of leveraging a no deal exit through (by ignoring parliament), which May would never have done.
Still depends on who is picked. Gove the Toad and Silly Boris don't have the balls. Leadsome or Raab may well.
I'm praying (as an atheist ) for Leadsome.

Christ alive. I don't think I've ever seen a more loathsome individual. Leadsome, Gove and Boris - as Tory leaders would drive me back to a Labour vote as the prospect of any of them as PM is truly, truly horrific. Anything by that.

Actually there is one worse (who thankfully has no chance) that evil Scouse bint McVey.

Also, a no deal exit - wouldn't the Tory remainers simply support a no confidence motion if that were to be the direction? Force a General Election? I don't know but that's the issue with the current parliamentary numbers. Unless the PM can get the 20-30 Tory remainers or no-deal opponents completely onside somehow, the numbers just aren't there. And yes they can tick down the clock and force it - but if it goes wrong they've killed the Tory party forever and their own careers.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I think she's been far and away the worst prime minister of my lifetime but whoever replaces her still doesn't have a cat in hells chance of getting a brexit deal through parliament

But they'll have a bloody good raccoon in hell's chance of leveraging a no deal exit through (by ignoring parliament), which May would never have done.
Still depends on who is picked. Gove the Toad and Silly Boris don't have the balls. Leadsome or Raab may well.
I'm praying (as an atheist ) for Leadsome.

Christ alive. I don't think I've ever seen a more loathsome individual. Leadsome, Gove and Boris - as Tory leaders would drive me back to a Labour vote as the prospect of any of them as PM is truly, truly horrific. Anything by that.

Actually there is one worse (who thankfully has no chance) that evil Scouse bint McVey.

Also, a no deal exit - wouldn't the Tory remainers simply support a no confidence motion if that were to be the direction? Force a General Election? I don't know but that's the issue with the current parliamentary numbers. Unless the PM can get the 20-30 Tory remainers or no-deal opponents completely onside somehow, the numbers just aren't there. And yes they can tick down the clock and force it - but if it goes wrong they've killed the Tory party forever and their own careers.

She was a very good Leader of the House.

The default position, is once again, that we leave on a specific date: this time 31st October. A new PM does not have to bring any legislation forward to accomplish that. Parliament has no mechanism to force a government to bring forward legislation they can amend. What it would take is balls of steel. (Even motion of no confidence cannot work, as there are only six weeks of parliamentary session left, which is less than necessary if going down that route: the rebels wouldn't have enough time)*

I think the Tory party is dead anyway. Raab or Leadsome might gamble on realigning their in house ethics, ditch onenationhood and try to build, a la Lib Dems, from a smaller base.

All conjecture. I don't have any crystal balls (or steel ones for that matter).

* because, let's face it, nobody will be putting in a vote of no confidence in a new leader of their own party immediately after they've just been 's/elected'.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think she's been far and away the worst prime minister of my lifetime but whoever replaces her still doesn't have a cat in hells chance of getting a brexit deal through parliament

But they'll have a bloody good raccoon in hell's chance of leveraging a no deal exit through (by ignoring parliament), which May would never have done.
Still depends on who is picked. Gove the Toad and Silly Boris don't have the balls. Leadsome or Raab may well.
I'm praying (as an atheist ) for Leadsome.

Christ alive. I don't think I've ever seen a more loathsome individual. Leadsome, Gove and Boris - as Tory leaders would drive me back to a Labour vote as the prospect of any of them as PM is truly, truly horrific. Anything by that.

Actually there is one worse (who thankfully has no chance) that evil Scouse bint McVey.

Also, a no deal exit - wouldn't the Tory remainers simply support a no confidence motion if that were to be the direction? Force a General Election? I don't know but that's the issue with the current parliamentary numbers. Unless the PM can get the 20-30 Tory remainers or no-deal opponents completely onside somehow, the numbers just aren't there. And yes they can tick down the clock and force it - but if it goes wrong they've killed the Tory party forever and their own careers.

She was a very good Leader of the House.

The default position, is once again, that we leave on a specific date: this time 31st October. A new PM does not have to bring any legislation forward to accomplish that. Parliament has no mechanism to force a government to bring forward legislation they can amend. What it would take is balls of steel. (Events motion of no confidence cannot work, as there are only six weeks of parliamentary session left, which is less than necessary if going down that route: the rebels wouldn't have enough time).

I think the Tory party is dead anyway. Raab or Leadsome might gamble on realigning their in house ethics, ditch onenationhood and try to build, a la Lib Dems, from a smaller base.

All conjecture. I don't have any crystal balls (or steel ones for that matter).

Ughh not for me. Made me want to punch my TV. I also find many of her views reprehensible.

Also.... in 2013 she said about leaving the EU....

"I think it would be a disaster for our economy and it would lead to a decade of economic and political uncertainty at a time when the tectonic plates of global success are moving."

Then became a Brexiteer. In the space of 3 years. Hmmm right.

She also wouldn't vote for gay marriage, or support gay adoption and she at one point was a climate change denier....no thanks.

The only hope for the Tories longer term is they find a credibly onenationTory. If they retreat back to the "nasty party" completely (or at least stop pretending they aren't) then they are done for.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

As I said, I think they as a party are dead. (I'm not supporting her or the Tories, I'm pinning my hopes on one the wankers getting us out of EU, merely that. Afterwards I hope they wither).

[Hoboh]

B&Q must be running out of gloss with all the painting over of Mays "incredible" political career I've been reading about all day!
Merkel is in mourning over the loss of her pet poodle, Junckers giving up the bottle and little paddy's sh#ttin himself.

[BWFC_Insane]

The only time May shows emotion is as she is forced out. This is the Daenerys moment. More interested in her own power than the mess she has made of the country. Crying about losing her job. Yet she’s not bothered about the lack of action on Grenfell, about the huge waiting lists for mental health patients, the pitiful state of the NHS, the rising poverty and child poverty. Nope. Just bothered that she can’t cling onto power a bit longer.

[Hoboh]

The only time May shows emotion is as she is forced out. This is the Daenerys moment. More interested in her own power than the mess she has made of the country. Crying about losing her job. Yet she’s not bothered about the lack of action on Grenfell, about the huge waiting lists for mental health patients, the pitiful state of the NHS, the rising poverty and child poverty. Nope. Just bothered that she can’t cling onto power a bit longer.

Your hero Blair fitted a few of those attributes you apportioned to May, i.e. only bothered about his position and creating future NHS problems.

[BWFC_Insane]

The only time May shows emotion is as she is forced out. This is the Daenerys moment. More interested in her own power than the mess she has made of the country. Crying about losing her job. Yet she’s not bothered about the lack of action on Grenfell, about the huge waiting lists for mental health patients, the pitiful state of the NHS, the rising poverty and child poverty. Nope. Just bothered that she can’t cling onto power a bit longer.

Your hero Blair fitted a few of those attributes you apportioned to May, i.e. only bothered about his position and creating future NHS problems.

Blair did good things. Money into public services like never before. NHS in its best state ever.

And he stood down to pass the mantle on.

I don’t think Blair was a saint or not keen on the power by any stretch. But I think his sense of duty was far greater than May’s. She sent us into the worst non war crisis as she admitted herself yet just kept trying to cling on.

[TANGODANCER]

The only time May shows emotion is as she is forced out. This is the Daenerys moment. More interested in her own power than the mess she has made of the country. Crying about losing her job. Yet she’s not bothered about the lack of action on Grenfell, about the huge waiting lists for mental health patients, the pitiful state of the NHS, the rising poverty and child poverty. Nope. Just bothered that she can’t cling onto power a bit longer.

I'm not accusing or defending anyone here because I have neither the political knowledge or interest to do that, but how would Tony Blair, Cameron or any of them have dealt with the bold bit above and still found time to deal with the Brexit issues? Oh, and dealt with a national vote result by the people that was basically ignored/refused by the government. Just wondering....?

[Harry Genshaw]

The only time May shows emotion is as she is forced out. This is the Daenerys moment. More interested in her own power than the mess she has made of the country. Crying about losing her job. Yet she’s not bothered about the lack of action on Grenfell, about the huge waiting lists for mental health patients, the pitiful state of the NHS, the rising poverty and child poverty. Nope. Just bothered that she can’t cling onto power a bit longer.

I'm not accusing or defending anyone here because I have neither the political knowledge or interest to do that, but how would Tony Blair, Cameron or any of them have dealt with the bold bit above and still found time to deal with the Brexit issues? Oh, and dealt with a national vote result by the people that was basically ignored/refused by the government. Just wondering....?

I think it's a good question Tango. My take on it - May, as a career politician and a life of privilege was like a rabbit caught in the headlights over Grenfell. She was probably looking for advice from a civil servant on what to do, rather than acting naturally on a human impulse and getting over there and start pledging positive support. She ended up managing the situation in reverse and just looked weak and uncaring.

Re Brexit. I don't think there's a politician alive that could reach an acceptable agreement between all the disparate Leave and Remain groups. Much as it pains me to say it - I think only Thatcher could have carried it off. She'd have just rode roughshod over all of them.

[Hoboh]

Interestingly after a scan through a lot of the press just how the remainers are going into meltdown because no deal appears to be coming back onto the table. Even old Mac is shouting for a second referendum now saying mysteriously it is labours position, think he'd be better waiting to see the figures from the EU elections of how many millions of the Brexiteer voters have, well according to remainiacs imaginary figures department anyway, changed their minds, think it might be a shock. Still I won't ruin some peoples Sunday with a large dose of reality.

Oh, I think maybe we should run a new poll on this thread.

[BWFC_Insane]

Interestingly after a scan through a lot of the press just how the remainers are going into meltdown because no deal appears to be coming back onto the table. Even old Mac is shouting for a second referendum now saying mysteriously it is labours position, think he'd be better waiting to see the figures from the EU elections of how many millions of the Brexiteer voters have, well according to remainiacs imaginary figures department anyway, changed their minds, think it might be a shock. Still I won't ruin some peoples Sunday with a large dose of reality.

Oh, I think maybe we should run a new poll on this thread.

The Labour vote is moving to the Lib Dems at a rate of knots...80% of Labour voters are remainers. So are voting for the bollocks to Brexit party.

How you’ve missed this is beyond me.

[BWFC_Insane]

The only time May shows emotion is as she is forced out. This is the Daenerys moment. More interested in her own power than the mess she has made of the country. Crying about losing her job. Yet she’s not bothered about the lack of action on Grenfell, about the huge waiting lists for mental health patients, the pitiful state of the NHS, the rising poverty and child poverty. Nope. Just bothered that she can’t cling onto power a bit longer.

I'm not accusing or defending anyone here because I have neither the political knowledge or interest to do that, but how would Tony Blair, Cameron or any of them have dealt with the bold bit above and still found time to deal with the Brexit issues? Oh, and dealt with a national vote result by the people that was basically ignored/refused by the government. Just wondering....?

Mays idea of ending burning injustices was to have vans driving round telling foreigners to go back home. To ignore rising poverty and pretend it isn’t happening. Blair was by no means faultless but at least pumped money into a failing NHS and improved public services.

[Hoboh]

Interestingly after a scan through a lot of the press just how the remainers are going into meltdown because no deal appears to be coming back onto the table. Even old Mac is shouting for a second referendum now saying mysteriously it is labours position, think he'd be better waiting to see the figures from the EU elections of how many millions of the Brexiteer voters have, well according to remainiacs imaginary figures department anyway, changed their minds, think it might be a shock. Still I won't ruin some peoples Sunday with a large dose of reality.

Oh, I think maybe we should run a new poll on this thread.

The Labour vote is moving to the Lib Dems at a rate of knots...80% of Labour voters are remainers. So are voting for the bollocks to Brexit party.

How you’ve missed this is beyond me.

I'd say wait and see just how well the traditional party of protest Limp Dems do first matey, according to you they should wipe out all the others and be second to the Brexit party then?

Oh and is the 80% figure a bwfci make up or official remain imaginary figure department release?

[Hoboh]

The only time May shows emotion is as she is forced out. This is the Daenerys moment. More interested in her own power than the mess she has made of the country. Crying about losing her job. Yet she’s not bothered about the lack of action on Grenfell, about the huge waiting lists for mental health patients, the pitiful state of the NHS, the rising poverty and child poverty. Nope. Just bothered that she can’t cling onto power a bit longer.

I'm not accusing or defending anyone here because I have neither the political knowledge or interest to do that, but how would Tony Blair, Cameron or any of them have dealt with the bold bit above and still found time to deal with the Brexit issues? Oh, and dealt with a national vote result by the people that was basically ignored/refused by the government. Just wondering....?

Mays idea of ending burning injustices was to have vans driving round telling foreigners to go back home. To ignore rising poverty and pretend it isn’t happening. Blair was by no means faultless but at least pumped money into a failing NHS and improved public services.

NHS is paying massively for Blair/Clowns PFI matey, still lets just gloss that over. And what is wrong with telling illegals to sod off home? After all that was the aim of the vans.

[BWFC_Insane]

Interestingly after a scan through a lot of the press just how the remainers are going into meltdown because no deal appears to be coming back onto the table. Even old Mac is shouting for a second referendum now saying mysteriously it is labours position, think he'd be better waiting to see the figures from the EU elections of how many millions of the Brexiteer voters have, well according to remainiacs imaginary figures department anyway, changed their minds, think it might be a shock. Still I won't ruin some peoples Sunday with a large dose of reality.

Oh, I think maybe we should run a new poll on this thread.

The Labour vote is moving to the Lib Dems at a rate of knots...80% of Labour voters are remainers. So are voting for the bollocks to Brexit party.

How you’ve missed this is beyond me.

I'd say wait and see just how well the traditional party of protest Limp Dems do first matey, according to you they should wipe out all the others and be second to the Brexit party then?

Oh and is the 80% figure a bwfci make up or official remain imaginary figure department release?

The remain vote is split. By the Lib Dem’s, Green, Change. Plus some Tory and Labour votes. Every Brexiteer is voting Brexit party. More or less.