European Second Referendum

[Lost Leopard Spot]

If the government of the day is defeated in a vote of no confidence, the Queen can invite Her Loyal Opposition the opportunity to form a government. It's in the constitution, unwritten as it is.

If a vote of no confidence is passed by the Commons, there is automatically an election if the House does not pass a motion of confidence in a government (could be the same govt, could be a diff Tory govt, could be a completely different, possibly Labour, govt) within 14 days. It does not matter what the Queen does. If that motion isn't passed, there is an election.

So Corbyn could form a minority govt, but he'd need to win a vote of confidence in the Commons to do so. It's s2(3)-(5) of the Fixed-term Parliament Act, here.

The Fixed-term parliament act is neither here nor there.
If the DUP combine with Labour and the SNP and vote down government legislation then the Queen is duty bound to invite the opposition to form a good, ffffs.

If they vote down the queen’s speech or major legislation. However, you said a motion of no confidence..,which as Pru and I have outlined is an automatic GE unless someone can pass a motion of confidence in 14 days.

Incorrect. Wrong. Bullshit. Not right
Jesus fxcking Christ, Pru even had a link to specific legislation...
Let me quote from the Times today:
"If Mrs May's government did lose a no confidence vote, in previous decades this would have immediately triggered a general election... That process was changed by the Fixed Terms..act. An election can be called only 14 days after... During those 14 days, others have the chance to try to form a government. This is where the constitutional waters become muddy..."
So, you are talking, as you quite often do, utter fxcking nonsense.

No. You simply do not understand the very clear rules Pru and I laid out.

There are 14 days for a government to try and form. That government HAS to pass a commons motion of confidence. So IF Corbyn wanted to form a government HE has to secure majority support from MPs in the house. It is clearly laid out in the link Pru has provided and the previous one I provided. He can run a minority government IF the majority of MPs vote that government to have the house's confidence. Which currently would be impossible to achieve.

You are wrong. We have very clearly outlined the process for how a no confidence motion works.

No confidence. 14 days for a government to form that can PASS A CONFIDENCE motion. If not. General Election.

Comprende?

Comprende! Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. Comprende yourself???

[BWFC_Insane]

If the government of the day is defeated in a vote of no confidence, the Queen can invite Her Loyal Opposition the opportunity to form a government. It's in the constitution, unwritten as it is.

If a vote of no confidence is passed by the Commons, there is automatically an election if the House does not pass a motion of confidence in a government (could be the same govt, could be a diff Tory govt, could be a completely different, possibly Labour, govt) within 14 days. It does not matter what the Queen does. If that motion isn't passed, there is an election.

So Corbyn could form a minority govt, but he'd need to win a vote of confidence in the Commons to do so. It's s2(3)-(5) of the Fixed-term Parliament Act, here.

The Fixed-term parliament act is neither here nor there.
If the DUP combine with Labour and the SNP and vote down government legislation then the Queen is duty bound to invite the opposition to form a good, ffffs.

If they vote down the queen’s speech or major legislation. However, you said a motion of no confidence..,which as Pru and I have outlined is an automatic GE unless someone can pass a motion of confidence in 14 days.

Incorrect. Wrong. Bullshit. Not right
Jesus fxcking Christ, Pru even had a link to specific legislation...
Let me quote from the Times today:
"If Mrs May's government did lose a no confidence vote, in previous decades this would have immediately triggered a general election... That process was changed by the Fixed Terms..act. An election can be called only 14 days after... During those 14 days, others have the chance to try to form a government. This is where the constitutional waters become muddy..."
So, you are talking, as you quite often do, utter fxcking nonsense.

No. You simply do not understand the very clear rules Pru and I laid out.

There are 14 days for a government to try and form. That government HAS to pass a commons motion of confidence. So IF Corbyn wanted to form a government HE has to secure majority support from MPs in the house. It is clearly laid out in the link Pru has provided and the previous one I provided. He can run a minority government IF the majority of MPs vote that government to have the house's confidence. Which currently would be impossible to achieve.

You are wrong. We have very clearly outlined the process for how a no confidence motion works.

No confidence. 14 days for a government to form that can PASS A CONFIDENCE motion. If not. General Election.

Comprende?

Comprende! Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. Comprende yourself???

What you initially wrote was the queen would ask Corbyn to form a minority government...which is not the process at all.

Corbyn could try - but how do you see him being able to win a commons motion of confidence? The DUP or some Tory MPs would have to support him - no chance of that.

I see it as very unlikely that he can win a motion of NO confidence in the first place unless the ERG become so disenfranchised they want to risk forcing a general election. But given they now know May won't lead them into the next GE they are certain to not want to force one early.

[Prufrock]

I wasn't sure either what you're saying, Spots.

If we're in the realm of a no confidence vote then it's clear. Once that happens there is an election unless a govt of some description wins a confidence vote within 14 days.

You I think mentioned earlier the idea that, confidence vote aside, the govt could lose a vote on e.g. its Queen's speech and that would trigger the possibility of the Queen asking the leader of the Opp to form a govt.

Now while I'll grant you that is at least arguable, I think it's very likely that is no longer the case. The Queen's ability to ask someone else to form a govt is a prerogative power and that would be someone who could command the confidence of the house.

There is a constitutional rule that when Parliament legislates in an area, any residual prerogative powers are extinguished. The passing of the FtPA IMO now provides the legislative route by which a govt that has lost the confidence of the Commons can be replaced without an election. I think it's very likely that means it is now the only way

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Ok, this is still my prediction. It's the same prediction I put forward before:
Firstly: despite DUP voting against their Tory partners, parliament passes the Withdrawal Agreement, because Labour MPs vote for it.
Secondly: Despite voting In the Withdrawal Agreement, Labour, SNP, DUP et al vote down all further government legislation.
Thirdly: After many days of utter stalemate, a vote of no confidence is passed...
Fourthly: Corbyn petitions the Queen under the constitutional rules to allow him to form a government in the same parliament.
Fifthly: She agrees.
Sixthly: It is put before parliament. He forms a government due to abstentions. A minority government, but a government nonetheless, formed from the members of this parliament, without a General Election, and without a majority of MPs voting for it.

What part of this prediction is Impossible? None, it is all possible! You can and do have the right to sneer at it due to its improbability, but that's not the point. It is eminently possible, and therefore conceivable. It is in my mind quite likely...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Thirty years ago, or so, I was one of those who got dragged into court because we refused to pay Thatcher's Poll Tax. Which looking back on it was made ridiculous by the imposition of a watered down Council Tax. But don't underestimate what people can do. Revolutions have been sparked over less....
I'm still exuberant over my part in Thatcher's downfall.

[Harry Genshaw]

Given how she's going to hang around and there's no prospect of a 2nd referendum, is it now time for all Britons, rich or poor, blue or red, to put our differences aside and for the good of the country get behind Theresa and her chequers deal brexit?

[Enoch]

and for the good of the country

... and there's the contentious point.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Given how she's going to hang around and there's no prospect of a 2nd referendum, is it now time for all Britons, rich or poor, blue or red, to put our differences aside and for the good of the country get behind Theresa and her chequers deal brexit?

No.



(Sorry).

[Harry Genshaw]

and for the good of the country

... and there's the contentious point.

it was fairly tongue in cheek but it appears it's chequers or nowt. Based on the referendum result I'd wager chequers is the more popular or least unpopular option. Perhaps we should all just suck up our reservations and present a united front?

[Enoch]

and for the good of the country

... and there's the contentious point.

it was fairly tongue in cheek but it appears it's chequers or nowt. Based on the referendum result I'd wager chequers is the more popular or least unpopular option. Perhaps we should all just suck up our reservations and present a united front?

.
...and turkeys should vote for Christmas.

I seriously doubt our Prime Minister's offer is either of those options though.

The much repeated mantra (not by you I might add) that only fascists, racists, thickos or the misguided voted out ain't washing. Sure, those minorities are in there, just as the self serving gravy train brigade will have voted remain. Truth is, ordinary folk make up the electorate in this country and the most popular option is demonstrably, out. The choice was binary and no one voted for a half baked f*ck up that puts the UK in a worse position than the status quo.

As an aside I'll float this thought:

In our democracy no one is obliged to vote. If one chooses not to vote one is accepting the wishes of the voting majority, that is a tacit vote with the majority.

So as far as I'm concerned the result of the referendum was a resounding endorsement of out. Some 65.2% to 34.7%. 0.1% of ballot papers were rejected. That's an even bigger margin than Theresa achieved on Wednesday.

Thank f*ck I'm old enough that I don't have to give a shit.

[BWFC_Insane]

and for the good of the country

... and there's the contentious point.

it was fairly tongue in cheek but it appears it's chequers or nowt. Based on the referendum result I'd wager chequers is the more popular or least unpopular option. Perhaps we should all just suck up our reservations and present a united front?

What she has isn't even chequers.

Why should I (a remainer) accept a deal that our own government says is going to make us considerably poorer? Why would a Brexiteer promised the land of milk and honey and unlimited free trade deals accept a deal that could for an undefined period of time stop us negotiating any free trade deals?

Now that May's political capital is irrelevant she COULD negotiate a Norway style deal for the exit which then means A50 is dealt with and a subsequent transition to a free trade deal could then be discussed. Sure she'll annoy hardcore Brexiteers but she is annoying them anyway. She also could go back for a second referendum. Or even annoy me and all remainers and just play hard ball with the EU.

Ultimately though she is trying to force an unwanted deal through (and now her political career is over) for no good reason. Why worry about her red lines now that she won't have to ever defend her position to the electorate?

[BWFC_Insane]

and for the good of the country

... and there's the contentious point.

it was fairly tongue in cheek but it appears it's chequers or nowt. Based on the referendum result I'd wager chequers is the more popular or least unpopular option. Perhaps we should all just suck up our reservations and present a united front?

.
...and turkeys should vote for Christmas.

I seriously doubt our Prime Minister's offer is either of those options though.

The much repeated mantra (not by you I might add) that only fascists, racists, thickos or the misguided voted out ain't washing. Sure, those minorities are in there, just as the self serving gravy train brigade will have voted remain. Truth is, ordinary folk make up the electorate in this country and the most popular option is demonstrably, out. The choice was binary and no one voted for a half baked f*ck up that puts the UK in a worse position than the status quo.

As an aside I'll float this thought:

In our democracy no one is obliged to vote. If one chooses not to vote one is accepting the wishes of the voting majority, that is a tacit vote with the majority.

So as far as I'm concerned the result of the referendum was a resounding endorsement of out. Some 65.2% to 34.7%. 0.1% of ballot papers were rejected. That's an even bigger margin than Theresa achieved on Wednesday.

Thank f*ck I'm old enough that I don't have to give a shit.

Whilst I agree that nobody voted for May's deal......are you seriously suggesting the majority who voted leave would be happy with a no deal and all the ramifications of that? We're living in the real world now, not a Brexit fantasist world.The country needs to function and no deal - it is clear there would be absolutely huge problems. The cost of planning for no deal is already huge.

[BWFC_Insane]

Theresa may has been utterly humiliated. Not by the EU. But by her own lack of ability.

Time to go, time to go, time to goooooooooooo, fck off!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

and for the good of the country

... and there's the contentious point.

it was fairly tongue in cheek but it appears it's chequers or nowt. Based on the referendum result I'd wager chequers is the more popular or least unpopular option. Perhaps we should all just suck up our reservations and present a united front?

.
...and turkeys should vote for Christmas.

I seriously doubt our Prime Minister's offer is either of those options though.

The much repeated mantra (not by you I might add) that only fascists, racists, thickos or the misguided voted out ain't washing. Sure, those minorities are in there, just as the self serving gravy train brigade will have voted remain. Truth is, ordinary folk make up the electorate in this country and the most popular option is demonstrably, out. The choice was binary and no one voted for a half baked f*ck up that puts the UK in a worse position than the status quo.

As an aside I'll float this thought:

In our democracy no one is obliged to vote. If one chooses not to vote one is accepting the wishes of the voting majority, that is a tacit vote with the majority.

So as far as I'm concerned the result of the referendum was a resounding endorsement of out. Some 65.2% to 34.7%. 0.1% of ballot papers were rejected. That's an even bigger margin than Theresa achieved on Wednesday.

Thank f*ck I'm old enough that I don't have to give a shit.

Whilst I agree that nobody voted for May's deal......are you seriously suggesting the majority who voted leave would be happy with a no deal and all the ramifications of that? We're living in the real world now, not a Brexit fantasist world.The country needs to function and no deal - it is clear there would be absolutely huge problems. The cost of planning for no deal is already huge.

Don't know about Enoch. But I'm actively FOR a no deal Brexit. Most of Project Fear is pure bullshit... The sooner we get it done the better, and less painless it will be. (Yes, there will be initial problems, both for us and the EU, but they are exaggerated beyond parody).

[Harry Genshaw]

Why should I (a remainer) accept a deal that our own government says is going to make us considerably poorer? Why would a Brexiteer promised the land of milk and honey and unlimited free trade deals accept a deal that could for an undefined period of time stop us negotiating any free trade deals?

Well as a remainer, you're definitely not going to get what you want now. Brexiteers may do if we go no deal. We all may get something reasonable (chequers over no deal) if we present as a more unified nation.

Undoubtedly May is well out of her depth here but she's like a general trying to control an army, where a third are charging at the enemy with no bullets, another third are stuck in no mans land and the rest are trying to surrender!

[Enoch]

The ramifications of a clean break come March 29th next year are that the folk currently bemoaning all the 'problems' in store will get off their 'fat cat' arses and work it out.

If you're doing very nicely thank you, you ain't likely to laud something that gives you some work to do but if push comes to shove, you will sort it out.

[Hoboh]

The ramifications of a clean break come March 29th next year are that the folk currently bemoaning all the 'problems' in store will get off their 'fat cat' arses and work it out.

If you're doing very nicely thank you, you ain't likely to laud something that gives you some work to do but if push comes to shove, you will sort it out.

Exactly, and most of the planes not landing etc is bull anyway, planes land from all over the world in the EU, shipping laws and regs apply worldwide along with a whole host of project fears lies.
The huge problem is free movement and tariffs, free movement is under pressure anyway in more and more EU states so its all about tariffs an our subscription fee.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

"Nebulous, nebulous, you called me nebulous"
"Non, non, non... Vacuous, I called you vacuous".

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I'm becoming more optimistic by the hour.
I think May has lost her marbles. Completely defunct of brain. But she still, still, believes she can steer SS Britain into the port of Rotterdam. The longer she pilots, the greater the chance of her hitting the No Deal iceberg. Keeping on believing Theresa, first watch, seven bells... Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Project Fear continues...
The port of Rotterdam has issued a statement declaring that £1.27bn worth of animals the UK exports to the EU each year through the port will stop instantly in the case of a hard Brexit because the Dutch are not prepared to have an inspection point ...
Well, fxcking good. The animals are exported for fattening, slaughter, and breeding.
Fattening... That practice is barbaric on the continent, especially in France. So EU, fxck your veal. Get stuffed yourselves.
Slaughter... It will just encourage us, the UK, to slaughter them ourselves, no bad thing at all. It's immoral to transport an animal thousands of miles to be killed. Outrageous.
Breeding, I don't think it's an imperative! What, civilisation falls apart because a Belgian farmer can't import a bull from England, because the Dutch refuse to employ a vet at their biggest port!!! I'm pretty fxcking sure that situation will sort itself out pretty soon.