Brexit or Britin

[Hoboh]

I am actually, no one should be able to get direct influence over a politician because of the size of his wallet or because he owns media.

Funding for party's should be out of the national purse and strictly limited, everything else, including free use of facilities/venues etc. should be illegal including union funding.

Goldman Sachs look like 'buying' the US president, wouldn't want that here.

[Worthy4England]

I am actually, no one should be able to get direct influence over a politician because of the size of his wallet or because he owns media.

Funding for party's should be out of the national purse and strictly limited, everything else, including free use of facilities/venues etc. should be illegal including union funding.

Goldman Sachs look like 'buying' the US president, wouldn't want that here.

I was mulling over that one meself....

Gove was of course one of the people campaigning against unelected political elites having any influence - I guess he meant "in relation to everyone else"...

[Bruce Rioja]

Let me try and have a go at this one

I didn't know what I was getting, because I'm not a Labour Party member. I am generally more inclined to vote for Labour, have one occasion voted for someone to get their deposit back , never voted Tory and sometimes have just submitted a blank vote because I've believed none of them were worth my "X". Last time out, I voted Labour. I expect that they stick broadly to their manifesto pledges in Government or in Opposition - Labour's policy was to remain in the EU. Me and 9.3m other people voted for them with this being one of their policies. Corbyn's representation of this manifesto pledge was shit (from where I sat). Angela Eagle tried (there was no doubt which side she was on in the debate) but was still shit. I would as someone who gave them my vote want the MP I voted for to get rid of Corbyn on that basis.

Oh and I nearly forgot - he has a fcuking beard! FFS.

Thanks, Worthy, although I'm none the clearer, mate. The manifesto was young Edward's wasn't it? Corbyn has never made any bones about where his political beliefs lie - slightly less left of Karl Marx's. Again, so why's he being rounded on - as far as I can see he hasn't surprised anyone with anything

[Lord Kangana]

I am actually, no one should be able to get direct influence over a politician because of the size of his wallet or because he owns media.

Funding for party's should be out of the national purse and strictly limited, everything else, including free use of facilities/venues etc. should be illegal including union funding.

Goldman Sachs look like 'buying' the US president, wouldn't want that here.

I was mulling over that one meself....

Gove was of course one of the people campaigning against unelected political elites having any influence - I guess he meant "in relation to everyone else"...

Does Nigel Farage standing on Parliament Square demanding the resignation of our democratically elected PM, after claiming victory in an 'election' (when in fact it was basically a large opinion poll), count as an unelected political elite exerting influence beyond their mandate?

Obviously he qualifies as a massive bellend, but he could have just stayed on the sofa in his gruds for us to know that.

[Little Green Man]

Let me try and have a go at this one

I didn't know what I was getting, because I'm not a Labour Party member. I am generally more inclined to vote for Labour, have one occasion voted for someone to get their deposit back , never voted Tory and sometimes have just submitted a blank vote because I've believed none of them were worth my "X". Last time out, I voted Labour. I expect that they stick broadly to their manifesto pledges in Government or in Opposition - Labour's policy was to remain in the EU. Me and 9.3m other people voted for them with this being one of their policies. Corbyn's representation of this manifesto pledge was shit (from where I sat). Angela Eagle tried (there was no doubt which side she was on in the debate) but was still shit. I would as someone who gave them my vote want the MP I voted for to get rid of Corbyn on that basis.

Oh and I nearly forgot - he has a fcuking beard! FFS.

Thanks, Worthy, although I'm none the clearer, mate. The manifesto was young Edward's wasn't it? Corbyn has never made any bones about where his political beliefs lie - slightly less left of Karl Marx's. Again, so why's he being rounded on - as far as I can see he hasn't surprised anyone with anything

Perhaps it's dread fear of a General Election sooner than 2020 and a rout with Corbyn still in charge.

[Hoboh]

I am actually, no one should be able to get direct influence over a politician because of the size of his wallet or because he owns media.

Funding for party's should be out of the national purse and strictly limited, everything else, including free use of facilities/venues etc. should be illegal including union funding.

Goldman Sachs look like 'buying' the US president, wouldn't want that here.

I was mulling over that one meself....

Gove was of course one of the people campaigning against unelected political elites having any influence - I guess he meant "in relation to everyone else"...

Does Nigel Farage standing on Parliament Square demanding the resignation of our democratically elected PM, after claiming victory in an 'election' (when in fact it was basically a large opinion poll), count as an unelected political elite exerting influence beyond their mandate?

Obviously he qualifies as a massive bellend, but he could have just stayed on the sofa in his gruds for us to know that.

No problem with anyone shouting the odds in politics, it's the backdoor underhand financing of it for favours or influence that needs addressing.
After all I read your posts

[Hoboh]

Let me try and have a go at this one

I didn't know what I was getting, because I'm not a Labour Party member. I am generally more inclined to vote for Labour, have one occasion voted for someone to get their deposit back , never voted Tory and sometimes have just submitted a blank vote because I've believed none of them were worth my "X". Last time out, I voted Labour. I expect that they stick broadly to their manifesto pledges in Government or in Opposition - Labour's policy was to remain in the EU. Me and 9.3m other people voted for them with this being one of their policies. Corbyn's representation of this manifesto pledge was shit (from where I sat). Angela Eagle tried (there was no doubt which side she was on in the debate) but was still shit. I would as someone who gave them my vote want the MP I voted for to get rid of Corbyn on that basis.

Oh and I nearly forgot - he has a fcuking beard! FFS.

Thanks, Worthy, although I'm none the clearer, mate. The manifesto was young Edward's wasn't it? Corbyn has never made any bones about where his political beliefs lie - slightly less left of Karl Marx's. Again, so why's he being rounded on - as far as I can see he hasn't surprised anyone with anything

Perhaps it's dread fear of a General Election sooner than 2020 and a rout with Corbyn still in charge.

Yeah but the Labour party decided it wasn't left enough after the last left leaning leader lost.

So why are they heading or want to head to the Blair right when they lost under that banner as well?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I see that odious cretin Gove has crawled back out from under his rock and thrown his hat in the ring for the Tory leadership.

And states that Boris isn't leadership material. Did his wife Murdoch tell him to say that?

I posted this up a couple of pages ago - it's the e-mail from Vine to Gove.

Very important that we focus on the individual obstacles and thoroughly overcome them before moving to the next. I really think Michael needs to have a Henry or a Beth (Mr Gove's media advisers, also copied into the email) with him for this morning's crucial meetings.

"One simple message: You MUST have SPECIFIC assurances from Boris OTHERWISE you cannot guarantee your support. The details can be worked out later on, but without that you have no leverage.

"Crucially, the membership will not have the necessary reassurance to back Boris, neither will (Daily Mail editor Paul) Dacre/(Rupert) Murdoch, who instinctively dislike Boris but trust your ability enough to support a Boris Gove ticket.

"Do not concede any ground. Be your stubborn best.

"GOOD LUCK."

How fcking chilling is that? Hoboh reckons Leave have won a great victory for democracy and here's the Tory Election campaign being discussed in terms of whether Paul Dacre and Rupert Murdoch are going to support the candidate.

Always good to see unelected people carrying such power.

Bizarrely Sky News reporting of this highlighted two sections of this short e-mail, but not the one referencing Murdoch - how remiss of them.

Just a wee error I'm sure! All of the candidates are worrisome to be fair. Thoroughly depressing.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Let me try and have a go at this one

I didn't know what I was getting, because I'm not a Labour Party member. I am generally more inclined to vote for Labour, have one occasion voted for someone to get their deposit back , never voted Tory and sometimes have just submitted a blank vote because I've believed none of them were worth my "X". Last time out, I voted Labour. I expect that they stick broadly to their manifesto pledges in Government or in Opposition - Labour's policy was to remain in the EU. Me and 9.3m other people voted for them with this being one of their policies. Corbyn's representation of this manifesto pledge was shit (from where I sat). Angela Eagle tried (there was no doubt which side she was on in the debate) but was still shit. I would as someone who gave them my vote want the MP I voted for to get rid of Corbyn on that basis.

Oh and I nearly forgot - he has a fcuking beard! FFS.

Thanks, Worthy, although I'm none the clearer, mate. The manifesto was young Edward's wasn't it? Corbyn has never made any bones about where his political beliefs lie - slightly less left of Karl Marx's. Again, so why's he being rounded on - as far as I can see he hasn't surprised anyone with anything

I believe the manifesto comes from party as a whole and is 'discussed at party conference etc. I would expect Ed to have been a major influence rather than architect.

[LeverEnd]

Let me try and have a go at this one

I didn't know what I was getting, because I'm not a Labour Party member. I am generally more inclined to vote for Labour, have one occasion voted for someone to get their deposit back , never voted Tory and sometimes have just submitted a blank vote because I've believed none of them were worth my "X". Last time out, I voted Labour. I expect that they stick broadly to their manifesto pledges in Government or in Opposition - Labour's policy was to remain in the EU. Me and 9.3m other people voted for them with this being one of their policies. Corbyn's representation of this manifesto pledge was shit (from where I sat). Angela Eagle tried (there was no doubt which side she was on in the debate) but was still shit. I would as someone who gave them my vote want the MP I voted for to get rid of Corbyn on that basis.

Oh and I nearly forgot - he has a fcuking beard! FFS.

Thanks, Worthy, although I'm none the clearer, mate. The manifesto was young Edward's wasn't it? Corbyn has never made any bones about where his political beliefs lie - slightly less left of Karl Marx's. Again, so why's he being rounded on - as far as I can see he hasn't surprised anyone with anything

Perhaps it's dread fear of a General Election sooner than 2020 and a rout with Corbyn still in charge.

Exactly that. Whoever gets the PM job can call an election and guarantee themselves 5 more years as it stands. Doing OK in local elections and shoe-in by-election means nothing when it comes to a GE.
And his fence sitting during the referendum campaign arguably cost the Remain side the result. Massive moment in uk history and he's skulking about in background with his hands in his pockets shrugging his shoulders. In leadership terms he makes roy hodgson look like Winston Churchill.

Get David Millibabd back from his highly paid sulk overseas and let's have someone competetent in charge.

[Worthy4England]

Let me try and have a go at this one

I didn't know what I was getting, because I'm not a Labour Party member. I am generally more inclined to vote for Labour, have one occasion voted for someone to get their deposit back , never voted Tory and sometimes have just submitted a blank vote because I've believed none of them were worth my "X". Last time out, I voted Labour. I expect that they stick broadly to their manifesto pledges in Government or in Opposition - Labour's policy was to remain in the EU. Me and 9.3m other people voted for them with this being one of their policies. Corbyn's representation of this manifesto pledge was shit (from where I sat). Angela Eagle tried (there was no doubt which side she was on in the debate) but was still shit. I would as someone who gave them my vote want the MP I voted for to get rid of Corbyn on that basis.

Oh and I nearly forgot - he has a fcuking beard! FFS.

Thanks, Worthy, although I'm none the clearer, mate. The manifesto was young Edward's wasn't it? Corbyn has never made any bones about where his political beliefs lie - slightly less left of Karl Marx's. Again, so why's he being rounded on - as far as I can see he hasn't surprised anyone with anything

Perhaps it's dread fear of a General Election sooner than 2020 and a rout with Corbyn still in charge.

Seriously - no. I think Labour will get beat regardless of whether my bezzie mate was in charge or Jeremy Corbyn.

@Bruce - The manifesto was the Labour party's (not Edwards - albeit he was a significant architect of it) - 9.3m voted on that basis for Labour. Post election 251,000 voted for Corbyn - no one should have been in any doubt that was a swing to the left or what Corbyn's political beliefs were (I agree with you btw that he's a pretty principled chap ). Now, them's the rules - so Corbyn has a legitimate mandate from party members. He doesn't however have any sort of mandate from 9.3m people who voted for the Labour manifesto, unless he follows that manifesto as closely as he can. the 251,000 card carrying Labour members haven't asked me what I think. He wouldn't get my vote, so he's not speaking for me, unless he's close to the manifesto I voted for. On that basis, I think the PLP have a point too.

The problem isn't really limited to Labour or this event either - Thatch got deposed when PM, Blair handed over the reigns to Brown - there's been numerous opposition Leader changes post a General Election defeat, but as a voter, I should have a reasonable expectation that whoever leads any party follows the manifesto I voted for as closely as they possibly can until the next Election and its associated manifesto (difficult to ensure that in opposition). Had Labour been in government, this would almost certainly be talked about in terms of requiring a General Election (as it was when Thatcher got deposed - in the end she fell on her sword and didn't force the issue iirc)

One thing that became clear from the Referendum vote was that both camps lied - I'm not talking "being economical with the truth" or "cutting a specific data set" in a way it supports your contention - they told some absolute whoppers. They should be held to account.

[Little Green Man]

Let me try and have a go at this one

I didn't know what I was getting, because I'm not a Labour Party member. I am generally more inclined to vote for Labour, have one occasion voted for someone to get their deposit back , never voted Tory and sometimes have just submitted a blank vote because I've believed none of them were worth my "X". Last time out, I voted Labour. I expect that they stick broadly to their manifesto pledges in Government or in Opposition - Labour's policy was to remain in the EU. Me and 9.3m other people voted for them with this being one of their policies. Corbyn's representation of this manifesto pledge was shit (from where I sat). Angela Eagle tried (there was no doubt which side she was on in the debate) but was still shit. I would as someone who gave them my vote want the MP I voted for to get rid of Corbyn on that basis.

Oh and I nearly forgot - he has a fcuking beard! FFS.

Thanks, Worthy, although I'm none the clearer, mate. The manifesto was young Edward's wasn't it? Corbyn has never made any bones about where his political beliefs lie - slightly less left of Karl Marx's. Again, so why's he being rounded on - as far as I can see he hasn't surprised anyone with anything

Perhaps it's dread fear of a General Election sooner than 2020 and a rout with Corbyn still in charge.

Seriously - no. I think Labour will get beat regardless of whether my bezzie mate was in charge or Jeremy Corbyn.

So do I. But the politicians we elect are an odd lot.

[Little Green Man]

Poor old Boris, stabbed in the dark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50sLS2T-zzc

[Worthy4England]

Wow - Johnson not standing....

[Bruce Rioja]

@Bruce - The manifesto was the Labour party's (not Edwards - albeit he was a significant architect of it) - 9.3m voted on that basis for Labour. Post election 251,000 voted for Corbyn - no one should have been in any doubt that was a swing to the left or what Corbyn's political beliefs were (I agree with you btw that he's a pretty principled chap ). Now, them's the rules - so Corbyn has a legitimate mandate from party members. He doesn't however have any sort of mandate from 9.3m people who voted for the Labour manifesto, unless he follows that manifesto as closely as he can. the 251,000 card carrying Labour members haven't asked me what I think. He wouldn't get my vote, so he's not speaking for me, unless he's close to the manifesto I voted for. On that basis, I think the PLP have a point too.

Again, I thank you for your enlightenment. However, had those 9.3m folk initially disapproved of Corbyn taking over the reigns, then as I recall it'd have cost them all of £3.00 apiece to say so.

[Lord Kangana]

What a massive c*nt. Boris that is.

[Worthy4England]

@Bruce - The manifesto was the Labour party's (not Edwards - albeit he was a significant architect of it) - 9.3m voted on that basis for Labour. Post election 251,000 voted for Corbyn - no one should have been in any doubt that was a swing to the left or what Corbyn's political beliefs were (I agree with you btw that he's a pretty principled chap ). Now, them's the rules - so Corbyn has a legitimate mandate from party members. He doesn't however have any sort of mandate from 9.3m people who voted for the Labour manifesto, unless he follows that manifesto as closely as he can. the 251,000 card carrying Labour members haven't asked me what I think. He wouldn't get my vote, so he's not speaking for me, unless he's close to the manifesto I voted for. On that basis, I think the PLP have a point too.

Again, I thank you for your enlightenment. However, had those 9.3m folk initially disapproved of Corbyn taking over the reigns, then as I recall it'd have cost them all of £3.00 apiece to say so.

But they weren't voting on Corbyn (or Milliband) they were voting for a manifesto of promises...We'd have to ask Bobo how much it cost.

[Worthy4England]

What a massive c*nt. Boris that is.

How many times do you think we'll hear "I didn't make that promise" in the coming couple of years?

[Lord Kangana]

No-one will ever be held to account for this. F*cknuggets the lot of them.

[Bruce Rioja]

@Bruce - The manifesto was the Labour party's (not Edwards - albeit he was a significant architect of it) - 9.3m voted on that basis for Labour. Post election 251,000 voted for Corbyn - no one should have been in any doubt that was a swing to the left or what Corbyn's political beliefs were (I agree with you btw that he's a pretty principled chap ). Now, them's the rules - so Corbyn has a legitimate mandate from party members. He doesn't however have any sort of mandate from 9.3m people who voted for the Labour manifesto, unless he follows that manifesto as closely as he can. the 251,000 card carrying Labour members haven't asked me what I think. He wouldn't get my vote, so he's not speaking for me, unless he's close to the manifesto I voted for. On that basis, I think the PLP have a point too.

Again, I thank you for your enlightenment. However, had those 9.3m folk initially disapproved of Corbyn taking over the reigns, then as I recall it'd have cost them all of £3.00 apiece to say so.

But they weren't voting on Corbyn (or Milliband) they were voting for a manifesto of promises...We'd have to ask Bobo how much it cost.

I know, but my point remains. They could've done something at the time.