The Politics Thread

[Worthy4England]

So the £ v $, you know that currency oil is traded in? The drop when we left Brexit is adding nothing to your fuel bill? I think it's adding a shitload more than green taxes...

[BWFC_Insane]

Blaming ‘globalisation’ like blaming the EU is an absolute nonsense.

The vast majority of our problems are entirely self inflicted. You can trace much of the issues today with huge inequality and a complete lack of economic balance back to Thatcherism. Her economic policy of extreme free market economics and anything that couldn’t stand on its own two feet being killed off and a transition to a service and finance dominated economy has left the country in this state. That’s got nothing to do with globalisation. But everything to do with our own policy. Greed drove our economics but boom and bust has only suited the richest and created a bubble where they offer no productivity but still grow their wealth.

Oh okay so where exactly was your great God Blair fixing all this then, you know like palming off supply of services to the armed forces, NHS etc. to slave labour private companies?

The idea that you were ever going to be able to stop emerging economies undercutting you is for the birds. But successive governments have said that ‘the market decides’ rather than actually working out the value of things and helping to preserve them. As a result we are now here.

Where does it, other than in wealthy companies/people's outlook state you have to purchase from developing countries? Many of Who by the way have been stealing innovation over decades

If your economic policy is driven by matching the USA then this is exactly where we’d always end up.

Why not look at the success of Nordic economies instead and see how they add value.

Here’s something that no doubt will upset some but it’s true that collective bargaining and unionisation are actually drivers of economic productivity yet we have allowed the Tory governments to attack these and workers rights with a zeal. And Blair relied on Uk and EU legislation to bestow worker rights yet these are now under attack by the Brexit dominated government. If you look at Brexit many of its backers have seemingly only the intent to erode workers rights to, yep, you guessed it ensure wealth is further concentrated at the top for the shareholders.

You lying sod, unions have never been at the forefront of productivity, I remember our piece work earnings being curbed to certain levels by the union at Edbro during the 70's because it meant some had to work harder to keep up their wage.

I could rant about this all day. But we are our own worst enemies. We’ve done this to ourselves. By allowing ourselves to elect people who simply believe copying US economics will be a panacea. Instead it’s a death knoll.

When will you get it in your head we are following no one, the wealthy elite have their ways to get wealthier and that is the only agenda they follow, globalisation is the product they use that suits them best not countries with their own self sufficiency and independence.
On the EU the way they were moving would have meant a vote in a general election would be akin to voting for your parish council to cut the grass, centralised European government in the pockets of the rich and elite would have suited them down to the ground, anyone who didn't play would get taken down like the Greeks.

If you look at actual published research and look at the impact of strong collective bargaining on economies it makes the stronger. It improves productivity. If you look at countries where unions have worked in partnership with government and industry their economies are much stronger and there is less inequality. Those are the facts. Just because you’ve been fed a diet of nonsense that has made you believe the opposite doesn’t make the fact less true.

Blair is certainly not my god and if you read my post it is clear I regard him relying on legislation rather than reforming and bolstering our trade unions as a mistake as the legislation in place to protect workers has been removed or is under serious threat. Blair did not do enough or really much to counter the economic argument of Thatcher, in fact he broadly agreed with it. And that’s his failing. He did of course ensure that public services were absolutely at their peak and used the productivity and growth to make that happen which of course in itself drives further growth and ‘levelling up’. But it was not fixing the system it was just using it to our advantage but that’s not enough.

I don’t wish to get into an argument with you on the EU or whatever but it’s simply a fact that those who pushed for it have profited whilst putting nothing back and the country as a whole has lost out. Economically we are hurting, partly as a result of the huge supply side shock Brexit delivered. It isn’t surprising nor unexpected but the only thing that has changed as a result is a lowering of our standards. The lack of opportunities delivered is symptomatic of the people who championed it. The fact remains that even if your argument about leaving the eu for, let’s summise, sovereignty reasons, holds the economic shock is hurting and the visionaries who led the Brexit campaign can’t find any good or positive benefits so have to invent them. We aren’t hurting because we are out of the EU. But we are hurting being out of the single market. Massively so. If you work in any industry that deals with Europe you will see how bad it is. Like it or not it’s a hit and nobody has done anything to solve it.

We are now seeing the lowest real wages since records began. It’s grim. You can disagree with me on the solutions but the causes I’m afraid are not up for dispute anymore.

The economic shock you and other remainers wail on about is down more to the worldwide shock of two years of Covid and no amount of remain biased surveys will change that!

Oh well let's see the son's of Scargil and others return to destroy industries so you can level up, think the train drivers union give a monkey's for Mick down your road? No.

Yes of course covid has contributed alongside Ukraine. Of course. It’s just the fact though that we are suffering relatively more because our exports have ranked and as worthy points out the value of our currency is far lower than it would be were we in the eu and consequently we have higher costs to bear on top of the other problems.

The world has had a supply side shock but ours is amplified by Brexit. It’s just a simple fact.

We obviously aren’t going back in but at least let’s face up to the situation and find some solutions that are plausible.

We need to restore our trade with Europe to levels of 2015 for a start. We cannot carry on pretending that it’s all gone well as we sit in liz Truss own words ‘with the worst financial crisis for generations’.

Unless someone is honest about it nobody can solve it or even simply lessen the pain.

[Hoboh]

I doubt you and I will ever agree on much but there are areas which we do although we have a different approach.
I never voted to totally obliterate trade with the EU it was all the other political stuff that did them for me in fact prior to the formation of the EU as we now know it things kinda worked in a way.
I have no desire to see 'poor people' and am all for giving them a chance and opportunities, I draw the line at support for the stupid who constantly let themselves down and all the excuses used for committing crime, not working etc. that too many hold up candles for these days. My personal responsibility only goes so far for others.
This country needs to become almost self sufficient with jobs and adequate housing for it's citizens first and foremost, if your hous lost its roof and next door but ones did whose would you fix first?

[TANGODANCER]

Jus a point: Why not just copy and paste a relevant section of a post to answer instead of having to read War and Peace with every answer. As I said, just a point.

[Worthy4England]

Jus a point: Why not just copy and paste a relevant section of a post to answer instead of having to read War and Peace with every answer. As I said, just a point.

Trickier than it looks on mobile.

[Hoboh]

Jus a point: Why not just copy and paste a relevant section of a post to answer instead of having to read War and Peace with every answer. As I said, just a point.

Trickier than it looks on mobile.

Plus one

[Hoboh]

And then there was three.

[TANGODANCER]

Jus a point: Why not just copy and paste a relevant section of a post to answer instead of having to read War and Peace with every answer. As I said, just a point.

Trickier than it looks on mobile.

Ah, point taken. Sorry. As you were.

[BWFC_Insane]

I doubt you and I will ever agree on much but there are areas which we do although we have a different approach.
I never voted to totally obliterate trade with the EU it was all the other political stuff that did them for me in fact prior to the formation of the EU as we now know it things kinda worked in a way.
I have no desire to see 'poor people' and am all for giving them a chance and opportunities, I draw the line at support for the stupid who constantly let themselves down and all the excuses used for committing crime, not working etc. that too many hold up candles for these days. My personal responsibility only goes so far for others.
This country needs to become almost self sufficient with jobs and adequate housing for it's citizens first and foremost, if your hous lost its roof and next door but ones did whose would you fix first?

Well quite, I think we share many views just not the solutions necessarily.

As for your last point if I lived in a terrace and my neighbours roof was off it would be in my interests to help them fix it…

[BWFC_Insane]

In all the political turmoil there is one consistent. Michael Spicer is a genius.

https://twitter.com/mrmichaelspicer/sta ... A7sFtU-c_A

[BWFC_Insane]

Our next PM. Lord help us.

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/ ... Xp7uNJRNdw

[Worthy4England]

I doubt you and I will ever agree on much but there are areas which we do although we have a different approach.
I never voted to totally obliterate trade with the EU it was all the other political stuff that did them for me in fact prior to the formation of the EU as we now know it things kinda worked in a way.
I have no desire to see 'poor people' and am all for giving them a chance and opportunities, I draw the line at support for the stupid who constantly let themselves down and all the excuses used for committing crime, not working etc. that too many hold up candles for these days. My personal responsibility only goes so far for others.
This country needs to become almost self sufficient with jobs and adequate housing for it's citizens first and foremost, if your hous lost its roof and next door but ones did whose would you fix first?

You lot changed "what you voted for" every time any bugger asked (including all variants of economic models around half in) !

I'm interested to hear what the stupidity test is that you're going to use and when? I mean if they're locked up (which you've been a strong advocate of) then I think we're probably going to have to pay for that....So where does your responsibility end?

We have shit loads of houses. They're all held as "investments"....

[Hoboh]

I doubt you and I will ever agree on much but there are areas which we do although we have a different approach.
I never voted to totally obliterate trade with the EU it was all the other political stuff that did them for me in fact prior to the formation of the EU as we now know it things kinda worked in a way.
I have no desire to see 'poor people' and am all for giving them a chance and opportunities, I draw the line at support for the stupid who constantly let themselves down and all the excuses used for committing crime, not working etc. that too many hold up candles for these days. My personal responsibility only goes so far for others.
This country needs to become almost self sufficient with jobs and adequate housing for it's citizens first and foremost, if your hous lost its roof and next door but ones did whose would you fix first?

You lot changed "what you voted for" every time any bugger asked (including all variants of economic models around half in) !

I'm interested to hear what the stupidity test is that you're going to use and when? I mean if they're locked up (which you've been a strong advocate of) then I think we're probably going to have to pay for that....So where does your responsibility end?

We have shit loads of houses. They're all held as "investments"....

May suprise yo to know I never voted conservative until Brexit cropped up. I was brought up on toffs are bad working man good unfortunately in this day and age living off the state is becoming more the norm alongside why should I do that.
I know of folk who ain't worked in the last twenty years and always find some get out when benefits are questioned and no they are not sick people just bone idol living in the house mummy left them.

[BWFC_Insane]

I doubt you and I will ever agree on much but there are areas which we do although we have a different approach.
I never voted to totally obliterate trade with the EU it was all the other political stuff that did them for me in fact prior to the formation of the EU as we now know it things kinda worked in a way.
I have no desire to see 'poor people' and am all for giving them a chance and opportunities, I draw the line at support for the stupid who constantly let themselves down and all the excuses used for committing crime, not working etc. that too many hold up candles for these days. My personal responsibility only goes so far for others.
This country needs to become almost self sufficient with jobs and adequate housing for it's citizens first and foremost, if your hous lost its roof and next door but ones did whose would you fix first?

You lot changed "what you voted for" every time any bugger asked (including all variants of economic models around half in) !

I'm interested to hear what the stupidity test is that you're going to use and when? I mean if they're locked up (which you've been a strong advocate of) then I think we're probably going to have to pay for that....So where does your responsibility end?

We have shit loads of houses. They're all held as "investments"....

May suprise yo to know I never voted conservative until Brexit cropped up. I was brought up on toffs are bad working man good unfortunately in this day and age living off the state is becoming more the norm alongside why should I do that.
I know of folk who ain't worked in the last twenty years and always find some get out when benefits are questioned and no they are not sick people just bone idol living in the house mummy left them.

Hardly anyone is not working on full benefits without a health condition. We have record employment and low unemployment.

It’s not an issue. The problem is simply that record numbers of working people have to claim benefits because work is simply not paying people enough to live. It’s 2022 for god sake. Meanwhile the likes of Rees Mogg pushed for Brexit then made millions betting against the pound.

Tell me honestly do you wish Brexit was a different side? Because you’ve ended up having to support the ‘stuff themselves to the gills and leave everyone else fighting for the scraps’ and I’m sure that wasn’t your intent.

But Brexit has happened. We ain’t going back. They don’t want us back. So we’ve left. We signed the deal Brexiteers told us was brilliant. So I don’t really see the point in you feeling the need to keep them around. They’ve done the deed. The results are what they are.

[Worthy4England]

I doubt you and I will ever agree on much but there are areas which we do although we have a different approach.
I never voted to totally obliterate trade with the EU it was all the other political stuff that did them for me in fact prior to the formation of the EU as we now know it things kinda worked in a way.
I have no desire to see 'poor people' and am all for giving them a chance and opportunities, I draw the line at support for the stupid who constantly let themselves down and all the excuses used for committing crime, not working etc. that too many hold up candles for these days. My personal responsibility only goes so far for others.
This country needs to become almost self sufficient with jobs and adequate housing for it's citizens first and foremost, if your hous lost its roof and next door but ones did whose would you fix first?

You lot changed "what you voted for" every time any bugger asked (including all variants of economic models around half in) !

I'm interested to hear what the stupidity test is that you're going to use and when? I mean if they're locked up (which you've been a strong advocate of) then I think we're probably going to have to pay for that....So where does your responsibility end?

We have shit loads of houses. They're all held as "investments"....

May suprise yo to know I never voted conservative until Brexit cropped up. I was brought up on toffs are bad working man good unfortunately in this day and age living off the state is becoming more the norm alongside why should I do that.
I know of folk who ain't worked in the last twenty years and always find some get out when benefits are questioned and no they are not sick people just bone idol living in the house mummy left them.

This day and age? Folks were grumbling about it 50 years ago. Given we know the Tories don't like the notion and have been in power a long time (and certainly most of that 50 years) How come they haven't solved it? I certainly agree there will be some people in that category, but I don't know how many there are, do you? And what are you proposing we do to solve it?

[Harry Genshaw]

Meanwhile the likes of Rees Mogg pushed for Brexit then made millions betting against the pound.

Is this what you meant on the last page about those pushing for Brexit who profited from it? I've heard all sorts of reasons why folk voted and campaigned for leave but that sounded a bit like tin foil hat territory. I mean the Tories have been heavily divided over Europe for generations and I dont trust any of em but it seems a bit far fetched and Machiavellian that many had an eye on personal gain over political belief.

[Harry Genshaw]

Our next PM. Lord help us.

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/ ... Xp7uNJRNdw

She truly is dreadful. Perhaps the only one of the candidates that you know would be worse than Boris. Labour surely couldn't lose an election to her, could they?!

[Worthy4England]

Meanwhile the likes of Rees Mogg pushed for Brexit then made millions betting against the pound.

Is this what you meant on the last page about those pushing for Brexit who profited from it? I've heard all sorts of reasons why folk voted and campaigned for leave but that sounded a bit like tin foil hat territory. I mean the Tories have been heavily divided over Europe for generations and I dont trust any of em but it seems a bit far fetched and Machiavellian that many had an eye on personal gain over political belief.

So. 2008 JRM and some others set up an emerging markets investment funds (stuff mainly not in EU), Somerset Capital. 2010 JRM elected to parliament. As a man of conviction supports a side that promotes trade in emerging markets which just coincidentally is where the $8bn fund, of which he allegedly owns around 12% is focussed...

What a Machiavellian notion....You couldn't make it up.

[BWFC_Insane]

Meanwhile the likes of Rees Mogg pushed for Brexit then made millions betting against the pound.

Is this what you meant on the last page about those pushing for Brexit who profited from it? I've heard all sorts of reasons why folk voted and campaigned for leave but that sounded a bit like tin foil hat territory. I mean the Tories have been heavily divided over Europe for generations and I dont trust any of em but it seems a bit far fetched and Machiavellian that many had an eye on personal gain over political belief.

It’s one of many examples. Look at how the pressure has come from many senior Brexiteers from the business world to loosen regulations. Why is this? Because those financing the Brexit campaign benefit from lowering of workers rights, lowering of standards their businesses directly benefit.

It’s not really a debate anymore. The motives for many were very sinister.

When we look at the ppe debacle and how they behaved there it’s not even a conspiracy. They did it right in front of our faces, know we know, but don’t care.

[Bruce Rioja]

Our next PM. Lord help us.

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/ ... Xp7uNJRNdw

For God's sake, no! Please, no!