The Politics Thread

[Harry Genshaw]

Meanwhile the likes of Rees Mogg pushed for Brexit then made millions betting against the pound.

Is this what you meant on the last page about those pushing for Brexit who profited from it? I've heard all sorts of reasons why folk voted and campaigned for leave but that sounded a bit like tin foil hat territory. I mean the Tories have been heavily divided over Europe for generations and I dont trust any of em but it seems a bit far fetched and Machiavellian that many had an eye on personal gain over political belief.

So. 2008 JRM and some others set up an emerging markets investment funds (stuff mainly not in EU), Somerset Capital. 2010 JRM elected to parliament. As a man of conviction supports a side that promotes trade in emerging markets which just coincidentally is where the $8bn fund, of which he allegedly owns around 12% is focussed...

What a Machiavellian notion....You couldn't make it up.

I was just posing the question that Brexit was motivated and pushed onto the UK by a few individuals, trying to make a financial gain. The UK has had a fractious relationship with the EU ever since we entered the common market and long before JRM was a twinkle in his dads monocle.

[Hoboh]

Bwfci since we hid the number of youth unemployment in various 'higher education' roles it is hardly any wonder our rates are lower. By now with all this 'higher education' we should be a million miles in front of most of the world, people who should be at the forefront of driving innovation forwards instead of gluing their self to roads.
Anyway I firmly believe that in the next few decades automation and IT will decimate large swaths of job roles so an entire rethink will be needed or you will get riots.
Self driving trucks, busses, trains, pilot less planes, AI driven call/service centres will become the norm, Zoom perhaps even 3D Business meetings, all will become the norm all controlled by a select few, that is the future people need to get sorted now and be prepared to defend what they have, not keep striking and playing into the hands of others.
Folk will ignore this to their long term detriment.
Still that don't solve the current problem of which clown will become our PM out of the three.

[TANGODANCER]

Jesus came forth to save the world and they crucified him. Boris stepped forth with a sweeping brush , and they made him Prime Minister. Then he threw a garden party and they sacked him. Yep, that's the Brits who think we can solve it all by having an election.

[Worthy4England]

Meanwhile the likes of Rees Mogg pushed for Brexit then made millions betting against the pound.

Is this what you meant on the last page about those pushing for Brexit who profited from it? I've heard all sorts of reasons why folk voted and campaigned for leave but that sounded a bit like tin foil hat territory. I mean the Tories have been heavily divided over Europe for generations and I dont trust any of em but it seems a bit far fetched and Machiavellian that many had an eye on personal gain over political belief.

So. 2008 JRM and some others set up an emerging markets investment funds (stuff mainly not in EU), Somerset Capital. 2010 JRM elected to parliament. As a man of conviction supports a side that promotes trade in emerging markets which just coincidentally is where the $8bn fund, of which he allegedly owns around 12% is focussed...

What a Machiavellian notion....You couldn't make it up.

I was just posing the question that Brexit was motivated and pushed onto the UK by a few individuals, trying to make a financial gain. The UK has had a fractious relationship with the EU ever since we entered the common market and long before JRM was a twinkle in his dads monocle.

Soz - thought you were referencing Insano's point about JRM. There were some people I suspect long held a view we'd be better off out for other reasons too, they weren't all leading the campaign messaging, generally. But the likes of Rees Mogg, I think his motives were much less pure. And Farage....Made a concession twice, despite his polling information from his mate telling him Leave had won. Generous would be "an excess of caution," "bent as feck" would be big bets against the £ which went up to £1.50 v $ on the strength of the "loss" before tanking.

[BWFC_Insane]

Bwfci since we hid the number of youth unemployment in various 'higher education' roles it is hardly any wonder our rates are lower. By now with all this 'higher education' we should be a million miles in front of most of the world, people who should be at the forefront of driving innovation forwards instead of gluing their self to roads.
Anyway I firmly believe that in the next few decades automation and IT will decimate large swaths of job roles so an entire rethink will be needed or you will get riots.
Self driving trucks, busses, trains, pilot less planes, AI driven call/service centres will become the norm, Zoom perhaps even 3D Business meetings, all will become the norm all controlled by a select few, that is the future people need to get sorted now and be prepared to defend what they have, not keep striking and playing into the hands of others.
Folk will ignore this to their long term detriment.
Still that don't solve the current problem of which clown will become our PM out of the three.

The problem isn’t higher education. I think it’s pretty lazy to say we aren’t at the forefront of innovation look at the covid vaccine for example. U.K. research pioneered much of that development. Many of the techniques used have come from decades long U.K. research and development.

But then we come to another problem with Brexit (and I’m sorry but it’s just how it is) we are in effect cut off from European research programmes which happen to be some of the largest and most well funded and ambitious programmes out there. We haven’t adequately replaced them. These aren’t small things. If you take the university and industrial research sectors in this country it’s a huge thing just gone from their economy. Add in many of the student exchange programmes we’ve lost now too. Knowledge flow back and forth is a huge part of what makes research tick.

The problem once again is we haven’t got governments who understand what the U.K. is good at and how to transform our economy so it works. Research and medicine are two classic examples. Hancock made a complete tit of himself again misunderstanding a call he received yesterday about the impact of Brexit on rare disease clinical studies. We can’t keep burying our heads the reality is that as a nation we need to work out how to be a part of the ecosystems around us because otherwise we are doomed to failure. The climate crisis is actually a huge opportunity for new industry and practices and huge job creation. But instead what they’ve done is taking donations from a select group of firms who are now pushing particular agendas like heat pumps for example….who does it help? The Tory party.

[BWFC_Insane]

Our next PM. Lord help us.

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/ ... Xp7uNJRNdw

For God's sake, no! Please, no!

She’s a shoe in if the sky members polling is correct. She is way ahead of Sunak with members and it will be impossible for him to make that ground up given the Mail and Torygraph will be team Truss. It’s a huge gift for Labour.

[TANGODANCER]

But then we come to another problem with Brexit (and I’m sorry but it’s just how it is) we are in effect cut off from European research programmes which happen to be some of the largest and most well funded and ambitious programmes out there. We haven’t adequately replaced them. These aren’t small things. If you take the university and industrial research sectors in this country it’s a huge thing just gone from their economy. Add in many of the student exchange programmes we’ve lost now too. Knowledge flow back and forth is a huge part of what makes research tick.

Knowledge seems to rise, peak and fall (all the great knowledgeable races of the past, Egyptians, Persians, Chinese, seem historically to flourish then die). The Egyptians built the Pyramids using slave labour and maybe lost knowledge. now the age of the internet rules our lives until...? All said, what have we really learned about what really matters; the world finding a way to live in peace. Greed ( a very prominent human failing) rules the world now, not knowledge (unless it's learning how to screw your neighbour before he screws you.) Like the song says, "When will they ever learn?"

[Worthy4England]

Anyway I firmly believe that in the next few decades automation and IT will decimate large swaths of job roles so an entire rethink will be needed or you will get riots.
Self driving trucks, busses, trains, pilot less planes, AI driven call/service centres will become the norm, Zoom perhaps even 3D Business meetings, all will become the norm all controlled by a select few, that is the future people need to get sorted now and be prepared to defend what they have, not keep striking and playing into the hands of others.
Folk will ignore this to their long term detriment.

So this one Hobes. You're not wrong. AI driven call centres are already in for most places - the results and success of them is building daily, the business processes are all being automated using things like AI/ML driven next best action and the like. Similarly, we started on IR 4.0 (probably 7-10 year into it) so it's been growing for a number of years as we automate and replace people in manufacturing and warehousing Ops etc. When you say an "entire rethink" is needed, what did you have in mind? Because another genie out of the bottle is, IT is becoming better at lots of things than humans, at an accelerating rate of knots.

The great news for UK is we can't get enough competent staff with the right skills in IT at the moment, the bad thing is "so we buy them in from the global market, where they do have them"....

[TANGODANCER]

The great news for UK is we can't get enough competent staff with the right skills in IT at the moment, the bad thing is "so we buy them in from the global market, where they do have them"....

Rather ironic when you think of Alan Turing and co. I worked for The National Computing Centre for 17 years (In Site Services, not the clever bits, Systems Engineering etc ) when it first started out with Manchester University as leaders in the field. That too is long gone.

[BWFC_Insane]

I’m looking forward to lots of pork markets opening up. And disgraceful cheese of course.

THIS. IS. A. DISGRACE.

[Worthy4England]

The great news for UK is we can't get enough competent staff with the right skills in IT at the moment, the bad thing is "so we buy them in from the global market, where they do have them"....

Rather ironic when you think of Alan Turing and co. I worked for The National Computing Centre for 17 years (In Site Services, not the clever bits, Systems Engineering etc ) when it first started out with Manchester University as leaders in the field. That too is long gone.

Not really comparable now, TD. There are a lot more fields for starters....

[Hoboh]

Anyway I firmly believe that in the next few decades automation and IT will decimate large swaths of job roles so an entire rethink will be needed or you will get riots.
Self driving trucks, busses, trains, pilot less planes, AI driven call/service centres will become the norm, Zoom perhaps even 3D Business meetings, all will become the norm all controlled by a select few, that is the future people need to get sorted now and be prepared to defend what they have, not keep striking and playing into the hands of others.
Folk will ignore this to their long term detriment.

So this one Hobes. You're not wrong. AI driven call centres are already in for most places - the results and success of them is building daily, the business processes are all being automated using things like AI/ML driven next best action and the like. Similarly, we started on IR 4.0 (probably 7-10 year into it) so it's been growing for a number of years as we automate and replace people in manufacturing and warehousing Ops etc. When you say an "entire rethink" is needed, what did you have in mind? Because another genie out of the bottle is, IT is becoming better at lots of things than humans, at an accelerating rate of knots.

The great news for UK is we can't get enough competent staff with the right skills in IT at the moment, the bad thing is "so we buy them in from the global market, where they do have them"....

I really don't know the answer Worthy, perhaps the people who will control things might give points to folk for tasks that they can then use because let's face it without consumers all the tech is pointless. There are no simple answers to the future although I will worry when armed paramilitary groups become the norm to keep the plebs in place.

[Worthy4England]

Well I guess at that point capitalism shall have eaten itself and the state will have to find people summat to do...

What I would say as someone inside the business, is it's picking up pace

[Worthy4England]

£19 Billion.

Seems to be the number we've paid in June for interest on our debt. That's more than a year's worth of EU payments taking the highest figure they could conjour without any rebate. Unless it's changed since I was a lad, you don't get anything back from interest payments.

You would think there'd be an outcry, but little mention of it so far...

[Bruce Rioja]

Our next PM. Lord help us.

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/ ... Xp7uNJRNdw

For God's sake, no! Please, no!

She’s a shoe in if the sky members polling is correct. She is way ahead of Sunak with members and it will be impossible for him to make that ground up given the Mail and Torygraph will be team Truss. It’s a huge gift for Labour.

Two guys from the Labour Party turned up on my door last night just doing the rounds, and fair play to them, getting stuck in to what is essentially something of a Tory stronghold ward. I'm yet to find Mudasir Dean at my door.

So anyway, we had a good chat for 20 minutes or so, and interestingly they both seem to have such little faith in Starmer that neither of them were 100% convinced that he'd win against Truss if, hypothetically, a GE was called next week with her as sitting PM.

[Worthy4England]

Yeah - I'm in sorta the same place TBF.

[BWFC_Insane]

Our next PM. Lord help us.

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/ ... Xp7uNJRNdw

For God's sake, no! Please, no!

She’s a shoe in if the sky members polling is correct. She is way ahead of Sunak with members and it will be impossible for him to make that ground up given the Mail and Torygraph will be team Truss. It’s a huge gift for Labour.

Two guys from the Labour Party turned up on my door last night just doing the rounds, and fair play to them, getting stuck in to what is essentially something of a Tory stronghold ward. I'm yet to find Mudasir Dean at my door.

So anyway, we had a good chat for 20 minutes or so, and interestingly they both seem to have such little faith in Starmer that neither of them were 100% convinced that he'd win against Truss if, hypothetically, a GE was called next week with her as sitting PM.

I’m pretty cautious and not exactly optimistic as is well documented here. But he and Labour would win. The polling isn’t close.

I think Sunak as I’ve said is a very different kettle of fish though obviously he’s been damaged by the daily Mail and the debates - he was only Tory candidate beating Starmer, but not even he isn’t.

I don’t think Starmer is anything brilliant he’s just got Labour to a very safe and steady place. In normal circumstances it would need the next one to really make them into a winning force. But these circumstances are not normal and Labour have had polling leads for the longest time since falling out of power and those leads have grown too.

I think it will be hung Parliament with Labour close and needing Lib Dem supply and confidence deal as the boundary changes make it very hard for them to have a majority. Most polls give them a 10 or 11 point lead which might leave them marginally short, the Tories would win a majority with half that lead.

But I do think as Pru does also that they will win if Truss is the next PM. She’s need a perfect two years and given the financial mess the Tories have inflicted on us the electorate as in 2010 when Cameron was not fully seen as a convincing answer I think there is enough mood out there for change and Labour are serious enough now to just about get the trust if not the enthusiasm.

This polling from yesterday going into the headwind of the worst financial and economic crisis most people have ever seen…I think it’s hard to argue that however uninspiring Starmer is, Truss already mocked and disliked is going to seriously, seriously struggle to turn that round.

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/sta ... fsUxnBoKnQ

[TANGODANCER]

Back in time a little (twelfth century actually)...Omar Khayyam said:

"Myself when young did eagerly frequent doctor and saint, and heard great argument about it and about: but evermore came out by the same door as in I went."

Not just a clever quote, but a relevant comparison of political indecision and difference not having moved forward that much right up to today. Do we now belong to the groups we have stated "xxxxxxx is a fine country; the only thing wrong is the xxxxxxx!"...about and now add ourselves in the blank spaces?

Today's generation live in a different world than some of us older dinosaurs who still actually believe we are a fine country...but for how long? We still have children and grand (great even) children who will inherit what's left behind, so it matters. That's why we no longer trust our politicians to put that fine country first before themselves. Compared to what we hear, even Boris seemed to know what he was talking about. Who can we actually trust, if anyone? The question is genuine but I'm not holding my breath on the answers.

[BWFC_Insane]

Yougov poll of Tory members tonight…

62% Truss
38% Sunak

Tory party really have eaten themselves. They don’t exist as a serious entity anymore.

[Worthy4England]

Yougov poll of Tory members tonight…

62% Truss
38% Sunak

Tory party really have eaten themselves. They don’t exist as a serious entity anymore.

Meanwhile on "trash out Thursday" the sneaked another £5bn onto the Brexit divorce bill, to go nicely alongside the £19bn interest payment on our debt.