The Politics Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

There is a spectator article floating round from August where Rishi Sunak predicted exactly what is happening to the pound and the markets would happen if Truss and Kwarteng were allowed to carry this mini budget out. His claims were described by the Spectator as ‘desperate’. LOL!

What a shame he didn’t win. For all our sakes.

In an ideal world that won’t ever exist I’d love to see a party formed with the likes of Sunak, Rory Stewart, Tugenhat, Mordaunt, Starmer, Nandy, Reeves etc that captured the centre ground of politics and paved a sensible and measured way forward. Never happen. But wish it could.

[Bruce Rioja]

There is a spectator article floating round from August where Rishi Sunak predicted exactly what is happening to the pound and the markets would happen if Truss and Kwarteng were allowed to carry this mini budget out. His claims were described by the Spectator as ‘desperate’. LOL!

What a shame he didn’t win. For all our sakes.

In an ideal world that won’t ever exist I’d love to see a party formed with the likes of Sunak, Rory Stewart, Tugenhat, Mordaunt, Starmer, Nandy, Reeves etc that captured the centre ground of politics and paved a sensible and measured way forward. Never happen. But wish it could.

All of that. 100%

[Hoboh]

There is a spectator article floating round from August where Rishi Sunak predicted exactly what is happening to the pound and the markets would happen if Truss and Kwarteng were allowed to carry this mini budget out. His claims were described by the Spectator as ‘desperate’. LOL!

What a shame he didn’t win. For all our sakes.

In an ideal world that won’t ever exist I’d love to see a party formed with the likes of Sunak, Rory Stewart, Tugenhat, Mordaunt, Starmer, Nandy, Reeves etc that captured the centre ground of politics and paved a sensible and measured way forward. Never happen. But wish it could.

Stewart and cry baby namby pamby? No effiin' chance!

[Hoboh]

Are you ever going to wake up to the fact that the people who have been telling you to blame the foreigners, the EU, liberals and now green policy for all our problems are just plain out lying to you?

Oh right the huge growth in the population by legal and illegal immigration has nothing to do with a shortage of housing, a shortage of services, and larger use of resources then?

The EU as a common trading community had many things in it's favour but when it turned into a political virtual dictatorship it lost all credibility.

The woke liberals are responsible for the absolute mess we are in with the likes of gender etc and many more things, they almost managed to legalise drugs and some supported pedo's!

The green movement are why we have little in the way of nuclear power generation oh and just as an aside today it's come out that charging electric vehicles is now almost on a par with petrol per mile. Good old greens eh?

[BWFC_Insane]

Are you ever going to wake up to the fact that the people who have been telling you to blame the foreigners, the EU, liberals and now green policy for all our problems are just plain out lying to you?

Oh right the huge growth in the population by legal and illegal immigration has nothing to do with a shortage of housing, a shortage of services, and larger use of resources then?

The EU as a common trading community had many things in it's favour but when it turned into a political virtual dictatorship it lost all credibility.

The woke liberals are responsible for the absolute mess we are in with the likes of gender etc and many more things, they almost managed to legalise drugs and some supported pedo's!

The green movement are why we have little in the way of nuclear power generation oh and just as an aside today it's come out that charging electric vehicles is now almost on a par with petrol per mile. Good old greens eh?

There is a great deal of utter tripe in that post.

But you might have missed that Truss wants more immigration because the economy has ground to a halt without the EU nationals able to come here and fill vital roles.

Even if you say that it’s not desirable to have so much immigration the route cause is not the EU or liberal or wokeism but free market capitalism that you’ve voted for one assumes every single election and each time voted for a more extreme version with less control and regulation.

Brexit had failed precisely because the people who wanted us out are the idiots we’ve had in charge of the government and now it’s bloody economic advisors like Minford and they obsfuscate reality and just want people to live in a dream world of identity politics so they can let their rich friends short the pound again and profit.

We aren’t in a mess cos some Poles came over to pick fruit or work in factories - that may be a symptom depending on your view point but certainly isn’t a cause.

You talk about nuclear energy. Labour in 2009 approved construction of new nuclear plants. The Tories decided not to build them. Are you suggesting that the Tories are the green movement? It’s a nonsense to start blaming random groups of people who have no power and no say for the problems instead of those who made the decisions and lied to you.

[Worthy4England]

I don't recall Hobes giving me much of an answer on the current nuclear decommissioning costs - either for Sellafield (current estimate £121Bn) or these smaller power stations (current estimate £23.5Bn) - are we adding these onto the "yeah but it's much cheaper bill" or just ignoring them and pretending they won't happen?

[Bruce Rioja]

But you might have missed that Truss wants more immigration because the economy has ground to a halt without the EU nationals able to come here and fill vital roles.

And I'd say that Truss is absolutely correct on that score. However, she now has Suella Braverman telling her that the government needs to meet its manifesto commitment to bring down net immigration numbers.

What an utter shambles.

[BWFC_Insane]

But you might have missed that Truss wants more immigration because the economy has ground to a halt without the EU nationals able to come here and fill vital roles.

And I'd say that Truss is absolutely correct on that score. However, she now has Suella Braverman telling her that the government needs to meet its manifesto commitment to bring down net immigration numbers.

What an utter shambles.

I mean she’s right obviously. The trouble is she’s saying it whilst pretending she’s not saying it because to admit to the truth is impossible for most Tories these days.

It’s why Sunak failed because he told the truth and they couldn’t face it. Then he had to tell a load of lies to have any chance and sort of spoiled it a bit.

When you consider the people they booted out for telling the truth it’s no wonder we are where we are.

As an aside I saw an interview with Ken Clarke earlier where he simply told the truth. No doubt he’d be kicked out were it not for age and the fact he’s already gone. But one of the best living politicians talking about his own party like that should be a wake up call. It won’t be though.

[Worthy4England]

We should just blame the EU for all the "immigration problems" - oh....

[Prufrock]

There's a massive difference between the Green NIMBYs (or NIABYs) - we're against building anything new, ever - who's ideal scenario is that we will live in huts and forage and humanity slowly dies off and let's Gaia or whatever regenerate; and, the more modern greens (seldom found in the laughable Green party) who want lots more clean, ever cheapening energy. Speed up wind farms, lots lots more solar panels, invest in energy storage. Basically harness technology to provide more and cheaper energy. I'm certainly on the side of the latter, and criticising the former is neither here nor there was a response.

[BWFC_Insane]

There's a massive difference between the Green NIMBYs (or NIABYs) - we're against building anything new, ever - who's ideal scenario is that we will live in huts and forage and humanity slowly dies off and let's Gaia or whatever regenerate; and, the more modern greens (seldom found in the laughable Green party) who want lots more clean, ever cheapening energy. Speed up wind farms, lots lots more solar panels, invest in energy storage. Basically harness technology to provide more and cheaper energy. I'm certainly on the side of the latter, and criticising the former is neither here nor there was a response.

Indeed. Renewable energy is cheaper if we actually invested in the storage tech. The media that hoboh reads is only interested in reporting folk glueing themselves to stuff. Not the sensible economic and environmental reforms that are serious no brainers.

[Hoboh]

There's a massive difference between the Green NIMBYs (or NIABYs) - we're against building anything new, ever - who's ideal scenario is that we will live in huts and forage and humanity slowly dies off and let's Gaia or whatever regenerate; and, the more modern greens (seldom found in the laughable Green party) who want lots more clean, ever cheapening energy. Speed up wind farms, lots lots more solar panels, invest in energy storage. Basically harness technology to provide more and cheaper energy. I'm certainly on the side of the latter, and criticising the former is neither here nor there was a response.

Indeed. Renewable energy is cheaper if we actually invested in the storage tech. The media that hoboh reads is only interested in reporting folk glueing themselves to stuff. Not the sensible economic and environmental reforms that are serious no brainers.

I'd suggest you two actually research this storage angle, yes some is possible over short term, long term it's Not, lack of the 'ingredients' to use disposal of spent units? Slave Labour digging the raw materials, etc. etc. So back to when it's cloudy and the wind don't blow, yes solar works in cloudy conditions but its effectiveness is massively reduced.
Oh here's a good one for you bloke from our bike club works on windmills and those out at sea he has to be lowered by helicopters at 3 grand plus an hour onto them.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I'd suggest you two actually research this storage angle, yes some is possible over short term, long term it's Not, lack of the 'ingredients' to use disposal of spent units? Slave Labour digging the raw materials, etc. etc. So back to when it's cloudy and the wind don't blow, yes solar works in cloudy conditions but its effectiveness is massively reduced.
Oh here's a good one for you bloke from our bike club works on windmills and those out at sea he has to be lowered by helicopters at 3 grand plus an hour onto them.

So I make that 40,333,333 hours until the helicopter reaches the cost of nuclear disposal for Sellafield. Not to mention the fact it might be cheaper and put them on land, but our glorious leaders have banned that

Fact is, we need a mix of power, with the majority coming from renewables. Seems to me we should be looking into more tidal and wind power. Them tides are pretty reliable and there is a lot of wind up here, and not just coming from the SNP.

We need to urgently fix how the energy market works. At the moment Scotland produces enough renewable energy to largely power Scotland. We effectively send the power south into the grid and then 'buy back that power at vastly inflated prices due to transmission charges.

Often the independence argument centres around Scotland supporting itself and that North Sea oil is or isn't enough. The way things are going, Scotland's water and renewables could end up providing the answer to that question the Nationalists seek. Without radical reform in so many areas I think independence is inevitable.

[BWFC_Insane]

There's a massive difference between the Green NIMBYs (or NIABYs) - we're against building anything new, ever - who's ideal scenario is that we will live in huts and forage and humanity slowly dies off and let's Gaia or whatever regenerate; and, the more modern greens (seldom found in the laughable Green party) who want lots more clean, ever cheapening energy. Speed up wind farms, lots lots more solar panels, invest in energy storage. Basically harness technology to provide more and cheaper energy. I'm certainly on the side of the latter, and criticising the former is neither here nor there was a response.

Indeed. Renewable energy is cheaper if we actually invested in the storage tech. The media that hoboh reads is only interested in reporting folk glueing themselves to stuff. Not the sensible economic and environmental reforms that are serious no brainers.

I'd suggest you two actually research this storage angle, yes some is possible over short term, long term it's Not, lack of the 'ingredients' to use disposal of spent units? Slave Labour digging the raw materials, etc. etc. So back to when it's cloudy and the wind don't blow, yes solar works in cloudy conditions but its effectiveness is massively reduced.
Oh here's a good one for you bloke from our bike club works on windmills and those out at sea he has to be lowered by helicopters at 3 grand plus an hour onto them.

It’s possible to have a reasonable conversation on this.

So you say storage isn’t possible long term? Why? The cost? There is a high cost here yet it’s an initial investment that will leave us energy sufficient not beholden to the global markets and also obviously not needing to compete for ever dwindling non renewables. Given the fact that we know at some point regardless of what you might prefer non renewables won’t be an option whatever route you choose will have a huge initial investment cost.

I don’t think it’s a zero sum game either. We will need some nuclear power for the next decade as we transition and technology develops.

There is a limited supply of uranium so if the world switched to full nuclear power generation you are kicking the can down the road for three decades before you have a big problem.

It’s why however you cut it investment in renewables and storage systems and a new grid are essentials. Nobody has made the case otherwise. Whether you phase that with nuclear or not the fact remains we don’t have a choice.

But it’s actually a massive economic opportunity on top of it so why not see it as an opportunity and use it to boost the economy?

[Worthy4England]

I'd suggest you two actually research this storage angle, yes some is possible over short term, long term it's Not, lack of the 'ingredients' to use disposal of spent units? Slave Labour digging the raw materials, etc. etc. So back to when it's cloudy and the wind don't blow, yes solar works in cloudy conditions but its effectiveness is massively reduced.
Oh here's a good one for you bloke from our bike club works on windmills and those out at sea he has to be lowered by helicopters at 3 grand plus an hour onto them.

So I make that 40,333,333 hours until the helicopter reaches the cost of nuclear disposal for Sellafield. Not to mention the fact it might be cheaper and put them on land, but our glorious leaders have banned that

Fact is, we need a mix of power, with the majority coming from renewables. Seems to me we should be looking into more tidal and wind power. Them tides are pretty reliable and there is a lot of wind up here, and not just coming from the SNP.

We need to urgently fix how the energy market works. At the moment Scotland produces enough renewable energy to largely power Scotland. We effectively send the power south into the grid and then 'buy back that power at vastly inflated prices due to transmission charges.

Often the independence argument centres around Scotland supporting itself and that North Sea oil is or isn't enough. The way things are going, Scotland's water and renewables could end up providing the answer to that question the Nationalists seek. Without radical reform in so many areas I think independence is inevitable.

Delighted, someone else has spotted the £120bn bill for decommissioning Sellafield. Hobes seems to keep avoiding the subject. But then again having a bloke from your bike club mentioning the 3k pounds to land someone on a windmill - I mean it's like running nuclear power stations comes "free"

[BWFC_Insane]

Labour for me at least are starting to talk the talk here. Really good policy announcements, common sense and a removal of the lunacy.

Starting to believe there is hope on the horizon.

[Bruce Rioja]

Labour for me at least are starting to talk the talk here. Really good policy announcements, common sense and a removal of the lunacy.

Starting to believe there is hope on the horizon.

Just sat through Starmer's speech. Impressive, common-sense, stuff, I have to say.

Ed Milliband didn't look particularly enthusiastic though. He looked like he could smell dogshit.

[BWFC_Insane]

I love the fact that after labour members and delegates did the sensible thing and barred Corbyns attempt to get back into the Labour Party that he’s gone off to do a rival speech to Starmer.

Like the alternative queens (now kings I guess) speech yet less funny but probably watched by an even smaller audience.

It’s quite sad really. Surely he has a garden he could be tending to?

[Hoboh]

I'd suggest you two actually research this storage angle, yes some is possible over short term, long term it's Not, lack of the 'ingredients' to use disposal of spent units? Slave Labour digging the raw materials, etc. etc. So back to when it's cloudy and the wind don't blow, yes solar works in cloudy conditions but its effectiveness is massively reduced.
Oh here's a good one for you bloke from our bike club works on windmills and those out at sea he has to be lowered by helicopters at 3 grand plus an hour onto them.

So I make that 40,333,333 hours until the helicopter reaches the cost of nuclear disposal for Sellafield. Not to mention the fact it might be cheaper and put them on land, but our glorious leaders have banned that

Fact is, we need a mix of power, with the majority coming from renewables. Seems to me we should be looking into more tidal and wind power. Them tides are pretty reliable and there is a lot of wind up here, and not just coming from the SNP.

We need to urgently fix how the energy market works. At the moment Scotland produces enough renewable energy to largely power Scotland. We effectively send the power south into the grid and then 'buy back that power at vastly inflated prices due to transmission charges.

Often the independence argument centres around Scotland supporting itself and that North Sea oil is or isn't enough. The way things are going, Scotland's water and renewables could end up providing the answer to that question the Nationalists seek. Without radical reform in so many areas I think independence is inevitable.

Delighted, someone else has spotted the £120bn bill for decommissioning Sellafield. Hobes seems to keep avoiding the subject. But then again having a bloke from your bike club mentioning the 3k pounds to land someone on a windmill - I mean it's like running nuclear power stations comes "free"

You bang on like Sellafield is a huge nuclear power station, it isn't, the high cost to decomision it is due to the nature of its work, the reprocessing plant, one that put us as tech leaders worldwide and could advance costs safety of decommissioning nuke stations in future. But no you'd rather build even more limited time span windmills, the low carbon made out of steel shipped round the world type lol

Bwfci is right there is a compromise but anyone who thinks second hand petrol/diesel cars won't fetch premium prices in 2030 is living in cuckoo land.

[Prufrock]

Renewables are getting cheaper all the time. They're not 100% of the solution (at least yet) but gas powered plants can fill the gap in the meantime (and don't take v long to "switch on").

Anything that can reduce our reliance on carbon (especially, say gas where Russia is a big global supplier) has to be a good thing. On that, there's been a lot of talk that we don't get our gas from Russia so how can that drive up our prices which seems to miss the point that other countries do and now they're trying to buy the gas we used to.

On nuclear, the saying is the best time to build a nuclear power plant is 15 years ago, the second best time is now. There's that video of Clegg from 2010 or so mocking the labour nuclear plans because it wouldn't be online until *2022* gasp. That aged like milk.

It's much much cleaner, greener and safer than coal/gas, despite the mad NIMBY green opposition. I've said before I think there's a case that Chernobyl might be the worst thing to happen to humanity given the scares around nuclear now. People cite Fukushima but the best estimate is that 1 (one) person was killed as a result of the meltdown.

It's not free of course. But when considering cost is worth noting that the govts latest energy support scheme is going to cost ~30bn just for *6 months* of support for an issue which is partially caused by/seriously exacerbated by our reliance on foreign gas.