The "I just don't get it thread".

[thebish]

I have a daughter who is MORE than willing to educate me at every opportunity! "Gender is in your head dad, not in your pants!"

Genuine question here.

But is that, on the face of it witty & smart assertion actually correct ?

Sexuality is a mind based thing, albeit acted out via the pantage region, ... but your gender actually IS, precisely, in your pants ? (Partially gender-reassigned people being a complication to this otherwise straightforward point).

The way today's generation understand "gender" is that it is a spectrum (much like sexuality). Sometimes - maybe even most of the time - your gender matches your equipment - quite often it doesn't.

so - yeah - it's quite true...

though - you should be explaining it to me - after all it is YOU who delivers diversity training!!

[TANGODANCER]

For what it's worth...

The World Health Organization states, "'ex' refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women," and "'gender' refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women."

[Worthy4England]

Surely gender is determined by your genes? (which I guess makes it your pants) rather than what's contained therein?

[TANGODANCER]

Surely gender is determined by your genes? (which I guess makes it your pants) rather than what's contained therein?

I always thought so. Am I sure of anything anymore?

[bobo the clown]

I have a daughter who is MORE than willing to educate me at every opportunity! "Gender is in your head dad, not in your pants!"

Genuine question here.

But is that, on the face of it witty & smart assertion actually correct ?

Sexuality is a mind based thing, albeit acted out via the pantage region, ... but your gender actually IS, precisely, in your pants ? (Partially gender-reassigned people being a complication to this otherwise straightforward point).

The way today's generation understand "gender" is that it is a spectrum (much like sexuality). Sometimes - maybe even most of the time - your gender matches your equipment - quite often it doesn't.

so - yeah - it's quite true...

though - you should be explaining it to me - after all it is YOU who delivers diversity training!!

... & damn well I'll have you know.

But a man (woman) may be straight, gay, bi, non-specific, undetermined. But they still ARE a man or woman physically. How they operate is down to mind-set chosen or otherwise .. but from a position of fundamentally being male ... or female. ie. their gender.


There are a few who are going through reassignment of course ....to an altered gender (ie man to woman or woman to man ....as determined by the pataloon region).

[Bijou Bob]

Aaaaaaand now apparently it's LGBT....Q. Queer is no longer the verbal slur it one was and some people like to identify themselves as 'Queer'. Whether they have any more idea than me what it means is a complete mystery.

[Beefheart]

I have a daughter who is MORE than willing to educate me at every opportunity! "Gender is in your head dad, not in your pants!"

Genuine question here.

But is that, on the face of it witty & smart assertion actually correct ?

Sexuality is a mind based thing, albeit acted out via the pantage region, ... but your gender actually IS, precisely, in your pants ? (Partially gender-reassigned people being a complication to this otherwise straightforward point).

The way today's generation understand "gender" is that it is a spectrum (much like sexuality). Sometimes - maybe even most of the time - your gender matches your equipment - quite often it doesn't.

so - yeah - it's quite true...

though - you should be explaining it to me - after all it is YOU who delivers diversity training!!

... & damn well I'll have you know.

But a man (woman) may be straight, gay, bi, non-specific, undetermined. But they still ARE a man or woman physically. How they operate is down to mind-set chosen or otherwise .. but from a position of fundamentally being male ... or female. ie. their gender.


There are a few who are going through reassignment of course ....to an altered gender (ie man to woman or woman to man ....as determined by the pataloon region).

Yeah, there's some disagreement over that point. I think the problem is if you subscribe to the idea that gender is in the mind than you're presumably subscribing to the idea of male vs female brains, which the Daily Mail might agree with but neuroscientists less so.

I get that with such deeply entrenched ideas of gender roles there's going to be large swathes of people who don't feel as though they fit the stereotype of their gender, but as more and more genders get added it would almost suggest that 'gender' is different for everyone and what in fact is happening is that gender is getting conflated with personality.

Should people suffering from gender dysphoria get the support to transition? I don't see why not, but you're on shaky ground if you think gender is exclusively in the mind. What if I wake up feeling a bit woman-y but want to keep my penis - and I'm not being facetious (Gender Fluid- someone whose gender identity and presentation are not confined to only one gender category. Gender fluid people may have dynamic or fluctuating understandings of their gender, moving between categories as feels right. For example, a gender fluid person might feel more like a man one day and more like a woman on another day, or that neither term is a good fit.), would women feel comfortable if I were to use their changing room at the gym? Should they be called bigots if they aren't? And isn't the idea of male feelings and female feelings promoting ideas of inequality rather than equality?

There is, quite understandably, a tendency to be as right on as possible and think 'yeah, good on the type 1 bipedal androgyqueers' (ok, I did make that one up) but I don't think it's as clear cut as say a position on gay marriage might be.

[TANGODANCER]

Aaaaaaand now apparently it's LGBT....Q. Queer is no longer the verbal slur it one was and some people like to identify themselves as 'Queer'. Whether they have any more idea than me what it means is a complete mystery.

Used to know a couple of lads who were baffled as to where the word "gay" had actually come from in relation to homosexuality, ie themselves. The claimed they were quite happy with "queer" as a description if they needed one. What would they know?

[bobo the clown]

Aaaaaaand now apparently it's LGBT....Q. Queer is no longer the verbal slur it one was and some people like to identify themselves as 'Queer'. Whether they have any more idea than me what it means is a complete mystery.

You've missed about 6 other letters there Bobby (may I call you "Bobby", Bobykins ?).

[thebish]

Aaaaaaand now apparently it's LGBT....Q. Queer is no longer the verbal slur it one was and some people like to identify themselves as 'Queer'. Whether they have any more idea than me what it means is a complete mystery.

it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more letters than that!!! get with the times old man!!

[thebish]

Surely gender is determined by your genes? (which I guess makes it your pants) rather than what's contained therein?

nope - not how it's defined nowadays.

[Worthy4England]

Aaaaaaand now apparently it's LGBT....Q. Queer is no longer the verbal slur it one was and some people like to identify themselves as 'Queer'. Whether they have any more idea than me what it means is a complete mystery.

it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more letters than that!!! get with the times old man!!

And here's some shortbread whilst you read up on it?

[thebish]

Surely gender is determined by your genes? (which I guess makes it your pants) rather than what's contained therein?

I always thought so. Am I sure of anything anymore?

well - not according to the definitions you yourself posted only this morning!

[Worthy4England]

Surely gender is determined by your genes? (which I guess makes it your pants) rather than what's contained therein?

nope - not how it's defined nowadays.

Where?

[thebish]

But a man (woman) may be straight, gay, bi, non-specific, undetermined. But they still ARE a man or woman physically.

only if you are from an older generation (like you and me) who believe the options are merely binary.

[thebish]

Surely gender is determined by your genes? (which I guess makes it your pants) rather than what's contained therein?

nope - not how it's defined nowadays.

Where?

well - see Tango's definitions for a starter...

[Worthy4England]

Surely gender is determined by your genes? (which I guess makes it your pants) rather than what's contained therein?

nope - not how it's defined nowadays.

Where?

well - see Tango's definitions for a starter...

No, I'm good thanks. I'll stick.

[bobo the clown]

But a man (woman) may be straight, gay, bi, non-specific, undetermined. But they still ARE a man or woman physically.

only if you are from an older generation (like you and me) who believe the options are merely binary.

Old b@stards have been known to be correct now & again y'know.

Otherwise we all may as well be Pru.

[thebish]

Should people suffering from gender dysphoria get the support to transition? I don't see why not, but you're on shaky ground if you think gender is exclusively in the mind.

i don't think modern generations consider it to be exclusively "in the mind" - they see it as a complex interaction of factors - some internal, some external. it's just that they don't see it as exclusively a matter of what's in your pants.

i have resigned myself to not really grasping it (matron!) - but recognise that my daughter's generation probably regards my generation on this issue with pretty much the same exasperation as my generation sees former generations' failure to grasp the idea of a continuum of sexuality...

i just accept that it might be a little bit beyond me - and try to resist ther bull-headed response that characterised some responses to homosexuality and its acceptance years ago (and, sadly, continuing into today..)

i'm happy for my daughter to understand it - she certainly has contact with a bewildering spectrum of friends and contacts with multiple and hazy attitudes towards gender... I just nod sagely and pretend to understand!

[TANGODANCER]

I'm for folk believing what they like. I expect the same privilege in return. I'm a Catholic and believe in the Bible. It says:

Genesis 1:27
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

I'll stick with that.