Who would you be?

[runningonbravado]

i'd be kele okereke...

or dennis haysbert

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

In the real world - Churchill, for his wit, survival instincts and all the things he packed into his long life.

One of Churchill's chums, F.E. Smith, the First Earl of Birkenhead, although his life was rather shorter. The finest lawyer and orator of his generation, he made as many enemies as he did friends, but was admired by everyone.

I would commend John Campbell's 900-page biography of him to anybody who has a few days spare...

[Zulus Thousand of em]

In the real world - Churchill, for his wit, survival instincts and all the things he packed into his long life.

One of Churchill's chums, F.E. Smith, the First Earl of Birkenhead, although his life was rather shorter. The finest lawyer and orator of his generation, he made as many enemies as he did friends, but was admired by everyone.

I would commend John Campbell's 900-page biography of him to anybody who has a few days spare...

Good choice mummy. I haven't read Campbell's book, but I have heard of many interesting tales about F E Smith.

I love the story (possibly apocryphal) about the National Liberal Club in Whitehall Place. Apparently Smith, a Tory, used to regularly call in to the Club, on his way to Parliament, to make a call of nature. The club members were up in arms about this and complained to the stewards. The next time Smith appeared in the club he was stopped by the Head Steward, who tentatively stated "Sir, I'm sorry, I'm afraid you can't come in here, this is a private gentlemen's club." To which Smith replied "So, it's not just a public convenience then?" Excellent.

Or this one, Judge: "Mr Smith, you must not direct the jury. What do you suppose I am on the bench for?" F. E. Smith: "It is not for me, your honour, to attempt to fathom the inscrutable workings of Providence."

Or, Judge: "I have read your case, Mr Smith, and I am no wiser now than I was when I started." F. E. Smith: "Possibly not, My Lord, but much better informed."

There's hundreds of them. What an intellect!

[H. Pedersen]

LEGEND! Saved the Union.

[blurred]

In the real world - Churchill, for his wit, survival instincts and all the things he packed into his long life.

One of Churchill's chums, F.E. Smith, the First Earl of Birkenhead, although his life was rather shorter. The finest lawyer and orator of his generation, he made as many enemies as he did friends, but was admired by everyone.

I would commend John Campbell's 900-page biography of him to anybody who has a few days spare...

I'd've put you down as wanting to be Denning

For me it'd have to be a footie player or a musician, otherwise it's just no fun

[Zulus Thousand of em]

I'd've put you down as wanting to be Denning

Multi-faceted man, Lord Denning. Nowhere near as one dimensional as some would have us believe!

[Harry Genshaw]

Ernest Shackleton for the heroic deeds and seemingly respected by all who met him or Jude Law - get paid shed loads for an easy life and a succession of pretty girlies.

[Harry Genshaw]

i'd be kele okereke...

or dennis haysbert

Who are these people? I've never heard of either of them. Hope this doesnt make me look ignorant. The Kele feller could be a rap star which would explain me not knowing him but I cant imagine someone called Dennis Haysbert getting down with the Homies.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Good choice mummy. I haven't read Campbell's book, but I have heard of many interesting tales about F E Smith.

I love the story (possibly apocryphal) about the National Liberal Club in Whitehall Place. Apparently Smith, a Tory, used to regularly call in to the Club, on his way to Parliament, to make a call of nature. The club members were up in arms about this and complained to the stewards. The next time Smith appeared in the club he was stopped by the Head Steward, who tentatively stated "Sir, I'm sorry, I'm afraid you can't come in here, this is a private gentlemen's club." To which Smith replied "So, it's not just a public convenience then?" Excellent.

Or this one, Judge: "Mr Smith, you must not direct the jury. What do you suppose I am on the bench for?" F. E. Smith: "It is not for me, your honour, to attempt to fathom the inscrutable workings of Providence."

Or, Judge: "I have read your case, Mr Smith, and I am no wiser now than I was when I started." F. E. Smith: "Possibly not, My Lord, but much better informed."

There's hundreds of them. What an intellect!

I believe that those you have mentioned are true though different people tell them with slightly different wording. For example, the version of your first quotation I have encountered most often is :

'F. E. Smith annoyed many patrons of London's exclusive Athenaeum Club (of which he was not a member) by habitually popping in to avail himself of their toilet facilities on his way to the House of Lords.
One day a porter rather pointedly remarked that the club was in fact for members only. "Oh," Smith smartly replied, "is it a club as well?'

He had a brilliant agile mind, but the hurtful power of his stinging tongue means that he is remembered by many as being a fairly unpleasant man. It is perhaps for this reason that he is not remembered so much today as being one of the great Conservatives of history. When Lloyd George's coalition Government fell in 1922 he seemed to lose it a bit. He had never suffered fools gladly - he had always been prone to (understandable, in my opinion) arrogance and outbursts of boorishness when opposed by men he considered inferior to himself (almost everyone); yet normally his impatience was tempered by charm, humour and a saving sense of fun - the likes of which you have provided some illustration. But in 1922 he behaved almost as though tact and respect for others had served their turn and could be discarded. As the Government fell in Blairesque haze of scandal and hubris, he made no attempt to halt the slide and retain support by the penetrating logic of his arguments, as he no doubt could have done. It's something I can't really explain because he could have gone down as one of the great men of the century if he had been the principled cheerleader and provided the gravitas Lloyd George and his chums were sadly lacking - instead he attempted to command support with a crude display of contemptuous self importance, breathtaking in its insensitivity and pride.

He had a great life, though. Almost everyone who worked closely with him became a devoted servant, such was the force of his personality. He was the hardest drinker around, which is probably why he died aged 58, and he even had had a young mistress. All great man have their flaws, but I refuse to hold the fact that he recognised his own greatness against him. Modest men are either one of two things: sycophantic people who will play down their own qualities because they believe that's what people want to hear and they will be liked more if they do, or simply lacking in judgment when it comes to their own abilities. Why not revel in greatness like F.E. and have many loyal friends and many bitter enemies - it's far preferable to having everybody indifferent about you.

Anyway, I could go on at length about my choice, and the lucky sixth formers at my old school will have the benefit of hearing just that in December when I give the lecture on our most eminent alumnus that I have been invited to do.

If I don't get heckled off it will be a fecking miracle.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

LEGEND! Saved the Union.

Interesting bloke Sherman - wars were never fought in the same way again after him.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Another one of my favourites, Zulus:

"A couple of aspirates." - F. E. Smith's prescription for J. H. Thomas (trade unionist and Labour politicain), who had complained of "an 'ell of an 'eadache"

For those who are fortunate enough never to have studied any linguistics, an "aspirate" is the technical term for the making of an 'h' sound.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Another one of my favourites, Zulus:

"A couple of aspirates." - F. E. Smith's prescription for J. H. Thomas (trade unionist and Labour politicain), who had complained of "an 'ell of an 'eadache"

For those who are fortunate enough never to have studied any linguistics, an "aspirate" is the technical term for the making of an 'h' sound.

True, although I think it generally refers to the initial h often dropped or improperly put in by the "uneducated", as in your example.

[Soldier_Of_The_White_Army]

Another one of my favourites, Zulus:

"A couple of aspirates." - F. E. Smith's prescription for J. H. Thomas (trade unionist and Labour politicain), who had complained of "an 'ell of an 'eadache"

For those who are fortunate enough never to have studied any linguistics, an "aspirate" is the technical term for the making of an 'h' sound.

Mmmmmmm....................no, sorry it's still Hefner!!

[thebish]

i'd be kele okereke...

or dennis haysbert

Who are these people? I've never heard of either of them. Hope this doesnt make me look ignorant. The Kele feller could be a rap star which would explain me not knowing him but I cant imagine someone called Dennis Haysbert getting down with the Homies.

okereke - singer in "rock" band
haysbert - actor

(eclectic choices!)

[50sQuiff]

hehe, Haysbert certainly has gravitas you can't deny that.

F E Smith certainly sounds a like character to add to my reading list.

I will go for Dziga Vertov, Russian avant garde director, visionary and film pioneer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dziga_Vertov

[Raven]

Akhenaten the Egyptian Pharoah, no one really know why he gave up on their gods and left Thebes and what happened to him. He also invented monotheism long before the Christianity, Juddaism and Islam were thought of

Not the most popular man in Egyptian history, since all trace of him was wiped out by his predecessors. Bit of an enigma, even by Pharoah standards.

And thats why

[white blood]

Mrs Mark Owen.... Just wanking every morning with him.... Heaven.....

[Zulus Thousand of em]

I believe that those you have mentioned are true though different people tell them with slightly different wording. For example, the version of your first quotation I have encountered most often is :

'F. E. Smith annoyed many patrons of London's exclusive Athenaeum Club (of which he was not a member) by habitually popping in to avail himself of their toilet facilities on his way to the House of Lords.
One day a porter rather pointedly remarked that the club was in fact for members only. "Oh," Smith smartly replied, "is it a club as well?'

Anyway, I could go on at length about my choice, and the lucky sixth formers at my old school will have the benefit of hearing just that in December when I give the lecture on our most eminent alumnus that I have been invited to do.

If I don't get heckled off it will be a fecking miracle.

I've just picked a couple of remarks from your comments on F E Smith. I think it's more likely to be the National Liberal Club, if only for the fact the Athenaeum is down Pall Mall, a fair old stride out from the Palace of Westminster for a man with a full bladder! I've never visited the Athenaeum but I do visit the Liberal Club fairly often. I've heard the tale recounted by various members there.

I did a bit more googling and found the following comment from a Liverpool Law Society dinner in 2003.

Another local lawyer, Gruffydd Evans, the late Lord Evans of Claughton, once told me his favourite FE Smith story. Each morning Smith would be observed leaving the National Liberal Club near Whitehall. One day his friend, Churchill, who was then Liberal Home Secretary, bumped into him and asked him why he was so often seen coming in and going out of the National Liberal Club: "Is that what it is?" he asked: "I though it was the public convenience." In the words of GK Chesterton's acerbic poem, directed at Lord Birkenhead, the lawyer/politician he most despised: "Chuck it Smith."

So that's that then! Another version, and completely different. I guess we'll never know the true story. The more I read about the man the more fascinated I become. I will dig out John Campbell's book, on your recommendation.

Good luck on the lecture in December. I'd love to see your presentation after you've done it. Please PM me if you can share it with me via email.

Cheers

Zulu.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I've just picked a couple of remarks from your comments on F E Smith. I think it's more likely to be the National Liberal Club, if only for the fact the Athenaeum is down Pall Mall, a fair old stride out from the Palace of Westminster for a man with a full bladder! I've never visited the Athenaeum but I do visit the Liberal Club fairly often. I've heard the tale recounted by various members there.

I did a bit more googling and found the following comment from a Liverpool Law Society dinner in 2003.

Another local lawyer, Gruffydd Evans, the late Lord Evans of Claughton, once told me his favourite FE Smith story. Each morning Smith would be observed leaving the National Liberal Club near Whitehall. One day his friend, Churchill, who was then Liberal Home Secretary, bumped into him and asked him why he was so often seen coming in and going out of the National Liberal Club: "Is that what it is?" he asked: "I though it was the public convenience." In the words of GK Chesterton's acerbic poem, directed at Lord Birkenhead, the lawyer/politician he most despised: "Chuck it Smith."

So that's that then! Another version, and completely different. I guess we'll never know the true story. The more I read about the man the more fascinated I become. I will dig out John Campbell's book, on your recommendation.

Good luck on the lecture in December. I'd love to see your presentation after you've done it. Please PM me if you can share it with me via email.

Cheers

Zulu.

Yes, the Liberal Club does ring more of a bell actually (and seems the more likely target of his contempt!). It was more Smith's wording that seemed familiar in the version I cut and pasted.

John Campbell's book really is terrific - the model political biography. Obviously, it's all the more interesting to me because of the local interest factor. My presentation will just be a Power Point job, so I'll send it to you for your comments when I've finished it. I want to finish it before the summer's out anyway.

[plodder]

LEGEND! Saved the Union.

How about Bedford Forrest?