The Politics Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

Clegg was very clever last night on Europe.

He knew his European policies would be unpopular with the Daily Mail reading, afternoon tea taking middle class morons.

So he tapped into something they disliked even more than Yuuuuuuurp. Paedos!

And demonstrated how the EU had helped crack a paedo ring and how the Tories had tried to block the cooperation that allowed that to happen.

I can just imagine those Daily Mailers sitting there incredibly confused, all red faced and angry not knowing what to do.

"Yuuuuuuurppppp bad yeah go Cameron go. Shut it Nick we don't want....oh paedos...but yurrrrppppp and yuuuuro....but paedos ARGHHHHHH".

Shame he couldn't have got something in about Princess Diana aswell, perhaps he could have insinuated that her crash was as a result of us not cooperating fully within the EU. My imagine how confuzzled they'd have been then!

I'm sure the working class of Britain will agree entirely with that post, what with the Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians now working over here.

I don't know you, but I would hope you are not in politics, or you would end coming across more clueless than the three morons on the TV last night.

Gordon Brown's bath time joke was funnier than that entire post.

Go see Doug Stanhope tackle that bullsh*t argument. It's always indirect, no-one ever knows anyone who has had their job 'taken'. People don't want to do shitty jobs for shit pay. I've worked on a factory line alongside loads of polish people, and there was nothing stopping the company taking on English folk, in fact often they did. It was a semi-skilled job, but with training provided, and if you turned up for interview motivated and with a desire to work there is no reason an English person wouldn't get the job. But it was boring, and not massively paid , though not badly either, so people didn't want it. If somebody comes over here, without speaking the language that well, and with no qualifications, and they are still better qualified for your job than you, there's only one person to blame.

I was going to say that Pru as well, there is nothing to stop English folk having those jobs if they want them. Assuming the Eastern European workers are being registered and paid legally, and if they aren't it has nowt to do with the EU!

[Tank]

Clegg was very clever last night on Europe.

He knew his European policies would be unpopular with the Daily Mail reading, afternoon tea taking middle class morons.

So he tapped into something they disliked even more than Yuuuuuuurp. Paedos!

And demonstrated how the EU had helped crack a paedo ring and how the Tories had tried to block the cooperation that allowed that to happen.

I can just imagine those Daily Mailers sitting there incredibly confused, all red faced and angry not knowing what to do.

"Yuuuuuuurppppp bad yeah go Cameron go. Shut it Nick we don't want....oh paedos...but yurrrrppppp and yuuuuro....but paedos ARGHHHHHH".

Shame he couldn't have got something in about Princess Diana aswell, perhaps he could have insinuated that her crash was as a result of us not cooperating fully within the EU. My imagine how confuzzled they'd have been then!

I'm sure the working class of Britain will agree entirely with that post, what with the Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians now working over here.

I don't know you, but I would hope you are not in politics, or you would end coming across more clueless than the three morons on the TV last night.

Gordon Brown's bath time joke was funnier than that entire post.

Go see Doug Stanhope tackle that bullsh*t argument. It's always indirect, no-one ever knows anyone who has had their job 'taken'. People don't want to do shitty jobs for shit pay. I've worked on a factory line alongside loads of polish people, and there was nothing stopping the company taking on English folk, in fact often they did. It was a semi-skilled job, but with training provided, and if you turned up for interview motivated and with a desire to work there is no reason an English person wouldn't get the job. But it was boring, and not massively paid , though not badly either, so people didn't want it. If somebody comes over here, without speaking the language that well, and with no qualifications, and they are still better qualified for your job than you, there's only one person to blame.

Nobody mentioned anybody stealing jobs.

Just pointed out that it isn't always the middle classes quaffing at European Immigrant, why would the middle classes care? It's not as though they ever come in to contact with a european economic migrant.
Thanks.

[thebish]

Just pointed out that it isn't always the middle classes quaffing at European Immigrant, why would the middle classes care? It's not as though they ever come in to contact with a european economic migrant.
Thanks.

how would you work that out? who employs them all as nannies and plumbers?

[Prufrock]

Clegg was very clever last night on Europe.

He knew his European policies would be unpopular with the Daily Mail reading, afternoon tea taking middle class morons.

So he tapped into something they disliked even more than Yuuuuuuurp. Paedos!

And demonstrated how the EU had helped crack a paedo ring and how the Tories had tried to block the cooperation that allowed that to happen.

I can just imagine those Daily Mailers sitting there incredibly confused, all red faced and angry not knowing what to do.

"Yuuuuuuurppppp bad yeah go Cameron go. Shut it Nick we don't want....oh paedos...but yurrrrppppp and yuuuuro....but paedos ARGHHHHHH".

Shame he couldn't have got something in about Princess Diana aswell, perhaps he could have insinuated that her crash was as a result of us not cooperating fully within the EU. My imagine how confuzzled they'd have been then!

I'm sure the working class of Britain will agree entirely with that post, what with the Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians now working over here.

I don't know you, but I would hope you are not in politics, or you would end coming across more clueless than the three morons on the TV last night.

Gordon Brown's bath time joke was funnier than that entire post.

Go see Doug Stanhope tackle that bullsh*t argument. It's always indirect, no-one ever knows anyone who has had their job 'taken'. People don't want to do shitty jobs for shit pay. I've worked on a factory line alongside loads of polish people, and there was nothing stopping the company taking on English folk, in fact often they did. It was a semi-skilled job, but with training provided, and if you turned up for interview motivated and with a desire to work there is no reason an English person wouldn't get the job. But it was boring, and not massively paid , though not badly either, so people didn't want it. If somebody comes over here, without speaking the language that well, and with no qualifications, and they are still better qualified for your job than you, there's only one person to blame.

Nobody mentioned anybody stealing jobs.

Just pointed out that it isn't always the middle classes quaffing at European Immigrant, why would the middle classes care? It's not as though they ever come in to contact with a european economic migrant.
Thanks.

BWFC did a post defending the EU. You did a post sarcastically mocking that whilst mentioning Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians. I inferred from this you were on about consequences of immigration due to the opening up of the EU, the main one being jobs. Now of course perhaps I was wrong, and you weren't getting at that, you were getting at how annoyed you are that your stag-do to Bulgaria has gotten cheaper, or maybe you were terrified that all those immgrants arriving at Dover would cause the UK to capsize, like Guam. Or maybe, maybe, you actually were hinting at jobs? Who knows.

[Tank]

Just pointed out that it isn't always the middle classes quaffing at European Immigrant, why would the middle classes care? It's not as though they ever come in to contact with a european economic migrant.
Thanks.

how would you work that out? who employs them all as nannies and plumbers?

It was supposed to be abit tongue in cheek, obviously the middle classes don't live in a little bubble where they're only surrounded by white English middle class people.

My point is that you won't hear the middle classes moaning about the economic side of European Immigration, because it's not as though as they're at the bottom scrapping for jobs with them, and two, like you rightly point out, they quite like employing them on the cheap.

In my opinion, the only time you will hear Middle Classes moan about the EU, is in regards to how it's destroying Britain and everything it stands for, Euro etc...

[Tank]

Clegg was very clever last night on Europe.

He knew his European policies would be unpopular with the Daily Mail reading, afternoon tea taking middle class morons.

So he tapped into something they disliked even more than Yuuuuuuurp. Paedos!

And demonstrated how the EU had helped crack a paedo ring and how the Tories had tried to block the cooperation that allowed that to happen.

I can just imagine those Daily Mailers sitting there incredibly confused, all red faced and angry not knowing what to do.

"Yuuuuuuurppppp bad yeah go Cameron go. Shut it Nick we don't want....oh paedos...but yurrrrppppp and yuuuuro....but paedos ARGHHHHHH".

Shame he couldn't have got something in about Princess Diana aswell, perhaps he could have insinuated that her crash was as a result of us not cooperating fully within the EU. My imagine how confuzzled they'd have been then!

I'm sure the working class of Britain will agree entirely with that post, what with the Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians now working over here.

I don't know you, but I would hope you are not in politics, or you would end coming across more clueless than the three morons on the TV last night.

Gordon Brown's bath time joke was funnier than that entire post.

Go see Doug Stanhope tackle that bullsh*t argument. It's always indirect, no-one ever knows anyone who has had their job 'taken'. People don't want to do shitty jobs for shit pay. I've worked on a factory line alongside loads of polish people, and there was nothing stopping the company taking on English folk, in fact often they did. It was a semi-skilled job, but with training provided, and if you turned up for interview motivated and with a desire to work there is no reason an English person wouldn't get the job. But it was boring, and not massively paid , though not badly either, so people didn't want it. If somebody comes over here, without speaking the language that well, and with no qualifications, and they are still better qualified for your job than you, there's only one person to blame.

Nobody mentioned anybody stealing jobs.

Just pointed out that it isn't always the middle classes quaffing at European Immigrant, why would the middle classes care? It's not as though they ever come in to contact with a european economic migrant.
Thanks.

BWFC did a post defending the EU. You did a post sarcastically mocking that whilst mentioning Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians. I inferred from this you were on about consequences of immigration due to the opening up of the EU, the main one being jobs. Now of course perhaps I was wrong, and you weren't getting at that, you were getting at how annoyed you are that your stag-do to Bulgaria has gotten cheaper, or maybe you were terrified that all those immgrants arriving at Dover would cause the UK to capsize, like Guam. Or maybe, maybe, you actually were hinting at jobs? Who knows.

My stag do to Bulgaria was alot cheaper back in the 90's. 10P for a pint back then, not like Sofia today thinking it's all high and mighty, charging £1.50 to £2.00 a pint.

[thebish]

but - is it really actually true that the East Europeans significantly take away jobs that Brits would otherwise be doing?

most studies I have seen have cast severe doubt on this oft-quoted "fact" - where are you getting your info from?

[Tank]

but - is it really actually true that the East Europeans significantly take away jobs that Brits would otherwise be doing?

most studies I have seen have cast severe doubt on this oft-quoted "fact" - where are you getting your info from?

I never said they did, it seems my point has been missed. I forgot who it was now but somebody said that it was the Middle Classes moaning about European Immigration, but in my opinion, it's always the 'working class' who are upset about economic migrants, because they believe their jobs are being taken.

I don't know the statistics and can't honestly say that I see many Eastern Europeans where I live.

[thebish]

but - is it really actually true that the East Europeans significantly take away jobs that Brits would otherwise be doing?

most studies I have seen have cast severe doubt on this oft-quoted "fact" - where are you getting your info from?

I never said they did, it seems my point has been missed. I forgot who it was now but somebody said that it was the Middle Classes moaning about European Immigration, but in my opinion, it's always the 'working class' who are upset about economic migrants, because they believe their jobs are being taken.

I don't know the statistics and can't honestly say that I see many Eastern Europeans where I live.

you must be one of those middle-classers then!

[thebish]

but - is it really actually true that the East Europeans significantly take away jobs that Brits would otherwise be doing?

most studies I have seen have cast severe doubt on this oft-quoted "fact" - where are you getting your info from?

I never said they did, it seems my point has been missed. I forgot who it was now but somebody said that it was the Middle Classes moaning about European Immigration, but in my opinion, it's always the 'working class' who are upset about economic migrants, because they believe their jobs are being taken.

I don't know the statistics and can't honestly say that I see many Eastern Europeans where I live.

if the working class believe that - then I believe they, in most cases, are mistaken....

[Prufrock]

but - is it really actually true that the East Europeans significantly take away jobs that Brits would otherwise be doing?

most studies I have seen have cast severe doubt on this oft-quoted "fact" - where are you getting your info from?

I never said they did, it seems my point has been missed. I forgot who it was now but somebody said that it was the Middle Classes moaning about European Immigration, but in my opinion, it's always the 'working class' who are upset about economic migrants, because they believe their jobs are being taken.

I don't know the statistics and can't honestly say that I see many Eastern Europeans where I live.

Fairy nuffs, it sounded like you yourself were upset about it. A lot of people, not just working class people themselves, are angry about foreigners coming over here taking the working class jobs, which they don't. Others have different concerns, most of which seem to me trivial, or bollocks. Go europe! That's what I say, Go Europe!

[a1]

I don't know the statistics and can't honestly say that I see many Eastern Europeans where I live.

its not like they look different , there's stories about POWs in *germany* escaping and getting back home. POWs in *japan* usually didnt get far.

and they dont take jobs of people who have 'guaranteed' work . its manual workers who dont work in the same place every day whos job's theyre 'taking' - plumbers and that.

when "outsourcing" was flavour of the month , office workers and the like moaned like feck too.

going "racist bastards" at 'em might be missing the point.

[thebish]

cock off SNP - none of us want Alex Salmond on the leaders debates - bog off and prepare for your own TV debate.

[Lord Kangana]

I want him and every leader of every other party on there. Its all pretty pointless anyway, might aswell show it up for the sham that it is.

[thebish]

I want him and every leader of every other party on there. Its all pretty pointless anyway, might aswell show it up for the sham that it is.

ok - I'll revise my rant...

cock off SNP - none of us except one want Alex Salmond on the leaders debates - bog off and prepare for your own TV debate.

[fatshaft]

cock off SNP - none of us want Alex Salmond on the leaders debates - bog off and prepare for your own TV debate.

Sorry, but in Scotland the leaders debates are aired, which is completely unfair, and why he has a perfectly valid point. If they were blanked out, and then only the Scottish debate could be seeen in Scotland, then you would have a point.

I want him and every leader of every other party on there. Its all pretty pointless anyway, might aswell show it up for the sham that it is.

ok - I'll revise my rant...

cock off SNP - none of us except one want Alex Salmond on the leaders debates - bog off and prepare for your own TV debate.

As do I LK. It is an inappropriatte Americanism that doesn't translate to our politics, we arte a multi-party system, and do not vote for aPM (president), we vote for our local candidate, although this is suually on the basis of their party.

However already we've seen the massive swell in support that the Libs have gained from these debates, to the detriment of those parties that cannot take part.

And worse, we have Clegg saying he will only form a coalition with Labour if Brown is not Labour leader, becasue he will have been voted out by the electorate. Well no, you idiot, Labour willl have been voted out, so whether the leader is Brown or Black, or Red, or Purple makes no difference, but you are re-inforcing the false premise that we vote directly for our leader in this country, exactly why these debates are wrong.

[Prufrock]

cock off SNP - none of us want Alex Salmond on the leaders debates - bog off and prepare for your own TV debate.

Sorry, but in Scotland the leaders debates are aired, which is completely unfair, and why he has a perfectly valid point. If they were blanked out, and then only the Scottish debate could be seeen in Scotland, then you would have a point.

I want him and every leader of every other party on there. Its all pretty pointless anyway, might aswell show it up for the sham that it is.

ok - I'll revise my rant...

cock off SNP - none of us except one want Alex Salmond on the leaders debates - bog off and prepare for your own TV debate.

As do I LK. It is an inappropriatte Americanism that doesn't translate to our politics, we arte a multi-party system, and do not vote for aPM (president), we vote for our local candidate, although this is suually on the basis of their party.

However already we've seen the massive swell in support that the Libs have gained from these debates, to the detriment of those parties that cannot take part.

And worse, we have Clegg saying he will only form a coalition with Labour if Brown is not Labour leader, becasue he will have been voted out by the electorate. Well no, you idiot, Labour willl have been voted out, so whether the leader is Brown or Black, or Red, or Purple makes no difference, but you are re-inforcing the false premise that we vote directly for our leader in this country, exactly why these debates are wrong.

Whilst agreeing with you on the second point, I think you are worng on the first. If we are going to have a PM debate, then it has to be the biggest parties in the whole of the UK. If you include the SNP, you have to include Plaid Cymru, and UKIP would have a strong case too based on recent elections. The format doesn't work with many different sides, three is about the limit, and if there are going to be three they have to be Labour, Tories and Lib Dems.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

but - is it really actually true that the East Europeans significantly take away jobs that Brits would otherwise be doing?

My girlfriend is Polish and she likes to tell me that our relationship is the perfect example of a job that British people just aren't prepared to do.

[Prufrock]

but - is it really actually true that the East Europeans significantly take away jobs that Brits would otherwise be doing?

My girlfriend is Polish and she likes to tell me that our relationship is the perfect example of a job that British people just aren't prepared to do.

Haha!

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

And as for the debates... I'm torn, because my instinct is that anything that promotes wider engagement with politics is a good thing, but it does seem to suck the oxygen out of everything else in the election campaigns.

As for who is involved in them - there is an attraction in the argument that says they only include the people who could be PM i.e. the people who are leaders of parties competing in enough seats to have a majority.

Even having 3 rather 2 participants spoils the prospect of an actual 'debating' dynamic, because what tends to happen is that we get 3 separate presentations rather than head-to-head confrontation. The whole thing would look like some bizarre seminar if we had every party involved.

Actually I am in favour of more prominent hustings at local constituency level. I hope that now more people have developed a taste for seeing the issues discussed in this sort of format, town hall hustings where all the candidates go up against each other will become more common and better attended.