The Politics Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

Driving home yesterday evening I listened to Suella Braverman's speech to the house on the situation in Kent, in which she used the term 'an invasion of migrants'.
I thought - within24 hours there'll be people who will focus their ire more on that one line than on the fact that the government clearly has no clear plan to stop the crossings.
And here we are.

I mean the problem is that the language she uses and her rhetoric is deliberate to try and create division and hatred. Then after twelve years of the Tories and after Brexit and our refusal to cooperate with the French causes this problem she uses said hate speech and division to try and blame ‘the left’. It’s utterly abhorrent.

I would rather we had Corbyn in charge than a party who lets someone like that into any sort of position of power. And I hate Corbyn.

[Prufrock]

We're told the Govts whole Rwanda plan was to target the traffickers and drive them out of business. So how about opening up routes and allowing appellants the right to work, in say specific industries, pending their decision being made?

Focusing on Sue Ella's 'invasion' comment misses the absolute chutzpah of her 'which party do you trust to sort this?' comment. 12 feckin years!

We have plenty of open routes which are entirely legal and allow people to migrate into the UK. That's just called immigration. It's almost like they need this distraction of 50-60,000 arriving illegally, to cover up for the fact that they haven't actually "sorted out immigration" as a result of Brexit (which lost them the opportunity to carry on saying "It's all the EU's fault"). The blame needs to be somewhere else now, so throw the dead cat onto the table.

The highest three years on record for net migration have all been in the last 8 years.

Yep. 97% of those crossing on boats claim asylum, and 85% are successful. In our "hostile environment". So essentially 85% are legit asylum seekers.

The crossings are rightly a big issue, I tend more to the "it's a humanitarian catastrophe" end but regardless of your politics it's not...good is it. A solution has to involve agreement with Europe, but that's another Brexit bonus too. So we'll try all this cringe "woke lefties nonsense".

"You're going to be really annoyed when you find out who's been in power for the last 12 years" etc

[Worthy4England]

It's enough to make you choke on your tofu.

[BWFC_Insane]

It’s worth pointing out that the proportion of migrants coming here is tiny compared to those settling in neighbouring countries or in European nations. It’s a tiny proportion of displaced people.

As Pru says the majority, are genuine asylum seekers. And 70% of those have family or community ties to the U.K.

I’m sickened by the language used and the fact it clearly works given some of the posts in this thread.

We absolutely should be removing those people who aren’t genuine asylum seekers. But that’s the process we should have to quickly assess people and then sort out their status one way or another. We have a backlog not because of rising numbers, the numbers coming have barely risen we have a backlog due to sheer incompetence of the government.

We should be cooperating with our European neighbours but again thanks to Brexit and the need to carry on the delusion that we haven’t shot ourselves in both feet with a sawn off shotgun we aren’t doing so. So are trying to take the problem all to ourselves, the government making a complete mess of it then using absolutely disgusting and abhorrent language to try and appeal and dogwhistle the far right extremists.

The only solution to this problem is to take a proper global view. To work with other countries to work out how to manage displaced people. Because as climate change gets worse we know this level of migration is minuscule compared to what is round the corner. It’s not that hard for us to take the genuine cases, make the routes legal and official and work with the French to allow processing their side as has been offered. It’s not rocket science. If we had any human beings in government this would have happened a year ago. Instead we are plunged into a mess by abhorrent politicians who then try and evoke the language of Enoch Powell and drag our country back to the dark ages to simply further divide and harm society.

The fact is that if we had a proper system in place and had official legal routes we’d get rid of those who shouldn’t be here far quicker as we’d not have these huge backlogs and nowhere to put people. And we’d also be able to refuse those from illegal routes far easier.

If you want to know why we have a problem with the influx on the south coast there are two reasons. Brexit and the Tory party. If you voted for either or both then maybe reflect on that rather than dehumanising people and relying on abhorrent right wing media nonsense to form an opinion.

[Worthy4England]

I think we mix up "migrants" and asylum seekers, somewhat and I don't think that's not deliberate by the current government. By far and away the largest number on the books are migrants we've issued visa's to - so not asylum seekers. I think the government are quite happy not to draw a distinction too loudly, between those we choose to let in vs those we don't, especially as it's heavily weighted towards "we've let them in". That way they can leave the confusion on the table for people to blame asylum seekers for the overall levels of migration that we've "approved"...

[BWFC_Insane]

I think we mix up "migrants" and asylum seekers, somewhat and I don't think that's not deliberate by the current government. By far and away the largest number on the books are migrants we've issued visa's to - so not asylum seekers. I think the government are quite happy not to draw a distinction too loudly, between those we choose to let in vs those we don't, especially as it's heavily weighted towards "we've let them in". That way they can leave the confusion on the table for people to blame asylum seekers for the overall levels of migration that we've "approved"...

But if you are coming on a boat onto the south coast then you are an asylum seeker otherwise you don’t have an entry claim. We should be chucking back those who aren’t asylum seekers.

[Worthy4England]

I think we mix up "migrants" and asylum seekers, somewhat and I don't think that's not deliberate by the current government. By far and away the largest number on the books are migrants we've issued visa's to - so not asylum seekers. I think the government are quite happy not to draw a distinction too loudly, between those we choose to let in vs those we don't, especially as it's heavily weighted towards "we've let them in". That way they can leave the confusion on the table for people to blame asylum seekers for the overall levels of migration that we've "approved"...

But if you are coming on a boat onto the south coast then you are an asylum seeker otherwise you don’t have an entry claim. We should be chucking back those who aren’t asylum seekers.

Of course that's true. And they're the problem obviously, rather than the 600,000 we let in through "approved channels"

[BWFC_Insane]

I think we mix up "migrants" and asylum seekers, somewhat and I don't think that's not deliberate by the current government. By far and away the largest number on the books are migrants we've issued visa's to - so not asylum seekers. I think the government are quite happy not to draw a distinction too loudly, between those we choose to let in vs those we don't, especially as it's heavily weighted towards "we've let them in". That way they can leave the confusion on the table for people to blame asylum seekers for the overall levels of migration that we've "approved"...

But if you are coming on a boat onto the south coast then you are an asylum seeker otherwise you don’t have an entry claim. We should be chucking back those who aren’t asylum seekers.

Of course that's true. And they're the problem obviously, rather than the 600,000 we let in through "approved channels"

But we know the vast majority are asylum seekers.

The problem is that people are misled into thinking otherwise. Not least by the government….

[Worthy4England]

Think we might be at cross-purposes here.

Last year, in the UK, around 600,000 people entered the country, not on "small boats from France" but though official immigration channels, that's "immigration."
In addition there were ~48,000 who rocked up on a beach to make 56,000 applications for asylum. That's "asylum seeking."

The vast majority of people the UK brings into the UK each year are not "asylum seekers" but the government is happier to have the "demonisation" sat there, than on the people that are coming in through immigration routes, because whilst they might be able to show an iron fist on people coming across in boats, they need the ones that are coming in through immigration channels.

It's why Brexit was never going to "solve" immigration.

[BWFC_Insane]

Oh absolutely. Though I think they want to say all the asylum seekers are illegal economic migrants too…

It’s at the point where it’s physically infuriating seeing the nonsense right wing drivel about asylum seekers propagated by all and sundry when the bloody facts are very easy to find out.

How are we any better than Brazil for example?

[Hoboh]

I hope everyone including all the eyebrow only watch Attenborough's attempts to send us back to the caves programmes will download the I'm a celebrity app and keep voting for twatty Hancock to eat kangaroos balls and sheep's arse etc. With luck it might poison the snake. I hope he gets hell on there.

[TANGODANCER]

Oh absolutely. Though I think they want to say all the asylum seekers are illegal economic migrants too…

It’s at the point where it’s physically infuriating seeing the nonsense right wing drivel about asylum seekers propagated by all and sundry when the bloody facts are very easy to find out.

How are we any better than Brazil for example?

In truth, we're not much better than anybody because the world's a mess. Even in the official "Promised Land" of Israel it's far from an earthly Paradise. They've got chaos in their current elections.

[Worthy4England]

Andrew Brigden - who might get suspended for 5 days for breaking Parliamentary Standards...Here's an extract of the e-mail he sent the person investigating him.

"I was distressed to hear on a number of occasions an unsubstantiated rumour that your contract as Parliamentary Standards Commissioner is due to end in the coming months and that there are advanced plans to offer you a peerage, potentially as soon as the prime minister's resignation honours list.

"There is also some suggestion amongst colleagues that those plans are dependent upon arriving at the 'right' outcomes when conducting parliamentary standards investigation."

Really - I'd probably get sacked if I wrote in a similar tone to a work associate...Tawdry as fcuk.

[BWFC_Insane]

Here is Tom Kerridge. He’s a chef. A good one. Explaining the disaster of Brexit on his industry and the economy. And why his industry and the economy needs more migration.

https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/15 ... j6CGnauzdA

[Worthy4England]

Not that it's any surprise, but interest rates up 0.75% to 3%....We've given you some money to cover the cost of some of the energy rises, but now you're going to have to spend it on your mortgage....Even Dick Turpin wore a mask.

[TANGODANCER]

Aside from immigration for a moment if you will:
Money is a joke invented by scarcity and fuelled by greed and desire for power.. What is it really? It only exists like any recognised commodity from lack of it. Those with it are never going to share it, they just want more and the legal systems of government collectively allow them to have it, mainly because their own share is got by taxation of those accumulating it. Companies, corporations, big businesses and privatisation all exist to acquire money. Business giants, with the blessing of the law and government quietly laugh up their sleeves. Take just the tobacco industry: They have been telling people to stop smoking for donkey's years, yet yearly banging up the price of al forms of smoking. Here they go again ( from Wikipedia) :

At Autumn Budget 2021, the Government announced that in 2022-23 the hand-rolling tobacco duty will increase by an additional 4 percentage points, to RPI plus 6 per cent . The minimum excise duty will rise by an additional 1 percentage points, to RPI inflation plus 3 per cent.

Total tobacco receipts for the last complete financial year, 2021 to 2022, were £10,278 million, which is £313 million (3.1%) higher than the previous financial year.31 Aug 2022

Meanwhile, the manufacturers of 30 million pound yachts send out their latest brochures and flyers to Pop stars, footballers and all those above .......

I know. it's a No shxt Sherlock, but well, we have to moan about something.

[Hoboh]

Not that it's any surprise, but interest rates up 0.75% to 3%....We've given you some money to cover the cost of some of the energy rises, but now you're going to have to spend it on your mortgage....Even Dick Turpin wore a mask.

Seems the halfwits cannot simply see it is the cost of fuel and energy driving inflation and wage demands, all they are doing is accelerating matters and the plunge into recession.

[Bruce Rioja]

Not that it's any surprise, but interest rates up 0.75% to 3%....We've given you some money to cover the cost of some of the energy rises, but now you're going to have to spend it on your mortgage....Even Dick Turpin wore a mask.

Don't play the old sack cloth and ashes. You're dancing round your fecking living room. Champagne spills all over the furniture

[Worthy4England]

Not that it's any surprise, but interest rates up 0.75% to 3%....We've given you some money to cover the cost of some of the energy rises, but now you're going to have to spend it on your mortgage....Even Dick Turpin wore a mask.

Don't play the old sack cloth and ashes. You're dancing round your fecking living room. Champagne spills all over the furniture

I resent that. Champagne never spills in our house!

[Bruce Rioja]

Not that it's any surprise, but interest rates up 0.75% to 3%....We've given you some money to cover the cost of some of the energy rises, but now you're going to have to spend it on your mortgage....Even Dick Turpin wore a mask.

Don't play the old sack cloth and ashes. You're dancing round your fecking living room. Champagne spills all over the furniture

I resent that. Champagne never spills in our house!