Tennis, anyone.....?

[Prufrock]

Feck me the nationalistic, Scottish/British bollocks really does my head in. The only people who care are small minded English people desperate to find sommat to be angry about cos the fecking empire was lost.
Jesus fecking Christ. He's Scottish, British, what the fook does it matter? I'd rather a bloke like Murray represented our nation than Henman, who the feck cares which side of a border they happened to have been born?

Errr isn't the Scottish National Party in power North of the Border?

I'm sure you'd like to make something more of this than there is, but I'm fairly sure last time you posted about our national team, you cared little about it. Why should we support someone from another nation then? Surely you'd care even less.

Coz he isn't from another nation. We may have different teams (given our very different histories, and associations) for football and rubgy but we live in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Thanks for the support. It's your prerogative to support who you want. But "Britain" ot the UK are not "nations"
England Scotland Wales and Ireland are.

It is your prerogative to identify yourself how you want. In order of size of geographical area, though not necessarily strength of 'identity' I'd identify myself as British, English, Northern, and Lancastrian.

The easiest way to define a 'nation' for me is whether or not it is a separate state. The state I live in is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It is the UK which has a seat on the UN security council. It was the British Empire which held a seat
on the League of Nations. Your argument that Britain and the UK are not nations looks a little flimsy.

In the peculiar case of our islands sporting and non-sporting history, there may well be an argument that for many it is England, Scotland, Wales and NI. I don't for instance support the Scottish rugby or football teams. In those sports nationality is defined in terms of England, Scotland etc... In tennis, as far as nationality is important, Murray is 'British'. In the Olympics his nationality will be 'British'. As such, given I identify myself as British, and given he also fits that identification, whether or not he classes himself as British I will support him based on his nationality being British. I can see how someone who defined himself as 'English' might not. Though it must be said those who go as far as to deliberately oppose him (mentioning no names W4E) are sad, sad individuals .

If a Scot defined himself as Scottish, and not British, and as such didn't support Tim Henman, then great, I'm not saying he is wrong or that he ought to do so, but to say definitively that British isn't a nationality, or the UK not a nation seems a bit bizarre.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Well, if it is size of geographic area that counts....
Was the League seat for the British Empire? I didn't know that. Indeed I thought Canada had a seat.

[Prufrock]

It did, was Canada still part of the Empire in the aftermath of the First World War? (I have a shockingly poor knowledge of Canadian history )

[Montreal Wanderer]

It did, was Canada still part of the Empire in the aftermath of the First World War? (I have a shockingly poor knowledge of Canadian history )

Er... Well... I guess the Commonwealth started with the Statute of Westminster in 1931, so before that we were probably part of the British Empire (although we acquired Dominion status - not true independence -in 1867). We didn't become truly independent until 1939 when we didn't declare war on Germany when the UK did - but waited a week to demonstrate said independence. Still it is rather complicated and I'll defer to Crayons on this matter.

[Worthy4England]

I can see how someone who defined himself as 'English' might not. Though it must be said those who go as far as to deliberately oppose him (mentioning no names W4E) are sad, sad individuals .

A scurrilous accusation, so it's a good job I don't deliberately oppose him then.

Deliberate opposition would require some sort of active participation on my part - I quite honestly couldn't be that arsed - he wouldn't merit that level of time and effort.

I certainly wasn't "shouting for Federer" or owt. I'd probably cheer on Sharipova if she played him.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

It did, was Canada still part of the Empire in the aftermath of the First World War? (I have a shockingly poor knowledge of Canadian history )

Er... Well... I guess the Commonwealth started with the Statute of Westminster in 1931, so before that we were probably part of the British Empire (although we acquired Dominion status - not true independence -in 1867). We didn't become truly independent until 1939 when we didn't declare war on Germany when the UK did - but waited a week to demonstrate said independence. Still it is rather complicated and I'll defer to Crayons on this matter.

Very much part of the Empire, but I believe Canada and a few others within the Empire (including the UK!) had their own seats at the League of Nations.

[Montreal Wanderer]

It did, was Canada still part of the Empire in the aftermath of the First World War? (I have a shockingly poor knowledge of Canadian history )

Er... Well... I guess the Commonwealth started with the Statute of Westminster in 1931, so before that we were probably part of the British Empire (although we acquired Dominion status - not true independence -in 1867). We didn't become truly independent until 1939 when we didn't declare war on Germany when the UK did - but waited a week to demonstrate said independence. Still it is rather complicated and I'll defer to Crayons on this matter.

Very much part of the Empire, but I believe Canada and a few others within the Empire (including the UK!) had their own seats at the League of Nations.

Probably those they used to call the "White Dominions" - Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

Feck me the nationalistic, Scottish/British bollocks really does my head in. The only people who care are small minded English people desperate to find sommat to be angry about cos the fecking empire was lost.
Jesus fecking Christ. He's Scottish, British, what the fook does it matter? I'd rather a bloke like Murray represented our nation than Henman, who the feck cares which side of a border they happened to have been born?

Errr isn't the Scottish National Party in power North of the Border?

I'm sure you'd like to make something more of this than there is, but I'm fairly sure last time you posted about our national team, you cared little about it. Why should we support someone from another nation then? Surely you'd care even less.

Coz he isn't from another nation. We may have different teams (given our very different histories, and associations) for football and rubgy but we live in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Thanks for the support. It's your prerogative to support who you want. But "Britain" ot the UK are not "nations"
England Scotland Wales and Ireland are.

It is your prerogative to identify yourself how you want. In order of size of geographical area, though not necessarily strength of 'identity' I'd identify myself as British, English, Northern, and Lancastrian.

The easiest way to define a 'nation' for me is whether or not it is a separate state. The state I live in is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It is the UK which has a seat on the UN security council. It was the British Empire which held a seat
on the League of Nations. Your argument that Britain and the UK are not nations looks a little flimsy.

In the peculiar case of our islands sporting and non-sporting history, there may well be an argument that for many it is England, Scotland, Wales and NI. I don't for instance support the Scottish rugby or football teams. In those sports nationality is defined in terms of England, Scotland etc... In tennis, as far as nationality is important, Murray is 'British'. In the Olympics his nationality will be 'British'. As such, given I identify myself as British, and given he also fits that identification, whether or not he classes himself as British I will support him based on his nationality being British. I can see how someone who defined himself as 'English' might not. Though it must be said those who go as far as to deliberately oppose him (mentioning no names W4E) are sad, sad individuals .

If a Scot defined himself as Scottish, and not British, and as such didn't support Tim Henman, then great, I'm not saying he is wrong or that he ought to do so, but to say definitively that British isn't a nationality, or the UK not a nation seems a bit bizarre.

bizarre?
first point is clearly wrong- plenty of states have existed throughout History that can not in a thousand years be deemed "nations"

you would argue that Yugoslavia was a "nation" then?
or the Soviet Union?
or perhaps the area of Nazi occupied Poland known as the Gouvernment General during WW11?
you're right though- we are who we define ourselves. I'm Scottish. when/if that nation ceased to exist then i would have to define myself as something else.


i support England at cricket.

[Montreal Wanderer]

There is clearly a difference between the (oldish) concept of nation state and nation. Not only, as napalm points out, there have been states that were not nations, but there are also nations which are not states - for example the Cherokee Nation or the Six Nations (which is the largest group of First Nations people in Canada). The concept of nationality is taken from the nation state concept but is generally replaced by the concept of citizen of a certain state these days (in my passport anyway).

When was World War Eleven?

[Annoyed Grunt]

Murray has just booked his place in the US Open final.

[jaffka]

Just watched it, well done came back well in that tie breaker to win the match.

[Annoyed Grunt]

Didn't think he'd win that tie break myself.....he did well.

[thebish]

Go Timmy!

[Athers]

He might win it without having to beat any of the big three!

[bobo the clown]

He might win it without having to beat any of the big three!

yep. So, if he does win it won't really count.

Useless Scotchish git.

[Jakerbeef]

Go on the Muzz-Muzz! Handled rubbish conditions like a champ.

Arguably never going to have a better chance. Although having said that Federer is on the wane and Nadal's knees can't have many more tours left in them.

[BWFC_Insane]

Murray far far far too defensive.

Djokovic will eat this up all day sadly.

I know it's Murrays game but he surely has to try and win some quick points.

Sadly can only see Djokovic getting stronger and stronger through this and winning in four or five sets.

One player that Murray can't outlast for me. Has to try and outhit!

[BWFC_Insane]

Set on a plate there for Murray......and he blows it!

[Annoyed Grunt]

Brilliant 1st set.

[Harry Genshaw]

Set on a plate there for Murray......and he blows it!

Eh?