The wonderful EU and Migration thread!

[Worthy4England]

Turkey!!!!!
Merkel has the fecking cheek to go promising the Turks accelerated EU membership if they bail her out of the shit by stopping migration!
Now who actually makes the decisions on EU policy you toe curling sycophant Europhiles?
Just as an aside it seems Turkey is one of Germany's largest trading partners, coincidence?
Cameron should be going great guns in helping the Saudi's apply for EU membership, after all it seems you have to have little European credentials to join and they are good trading partners.
Mean while China's president has told Cameron they view any attempt to get North Korea to join as totally unacceptable, they like Russia have no desire to lose any 'buffer' states!

Golly gosh. How funny is this post? You've been arguing that the EU should be stopping immigrants as close to source as possible. Now Herr Chancellor is listening to you, you're grumbling like fcuk.

Let's talk about what she actually promised them. Bugger all, because she's not empowered to do so. She offered Germany's support for visit visas but made it clear that she wasn't supporting their entry into the EU as far as I've read.

If there wasn't as much froth emanating from your gob, you might be able to seen the screen and readvwhat was said. As ever, we'll keep trying to help you understand it.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Turkey!!!!!
Merkel has the fecking cheek to go promising the Turks accelerated EU membership if they bail her out of the shit by stopping migration!
Now who actually makes the decisions on EU policy you toe curling sycophant Europhiles?
Just as an aside it seems Turkey is one of Germany's largest trading partners, coincidence?
Cameron should be going great guns in helping the Saudi's apply for EU membership, after all it seems you have to have little European credentials to join and they are good trading partners.
Mean while China's president has told Cameron they view any attempt to get North Korea to join as totally unacceptable, they like Russia have no desire to lose any 'buffer' states!

Golly gosh. How funny is this post? You've been arguing that the EU should be stopping immigrants as close to source as possible. Now Herr Chancellor is listening to you, you're grumbling like fcuk.

Let's talk about what she actually promised them. Bugger all, because she's not empowered to do so. She offered Germany's support for visit visas but made it clear that she wasn't supporting their entry into the EU as far as I've read.

If there wasn't as much froth emanating from your gob, you might be able to seen the screen and readvwhat was said. As ever, we'll keep trying to help you understand it.

Well, according to the Times, online, (not too sure how far up the index of anus publications they score over the Daily Mail) Merkel has promised "Germany would help advance the process of Turkey joining the EU".
She, in an apparent U-turn "asked how can we organise Turkish accession more dynamically..." and despite Erdogan's pathetic human rights record "...declared she was prepared to start admission talks whilst simultaneously negotiating on chapter23/24 [human rights]... if concessions on border security were "strengthened"."
Seems to me any talk of spittle obfuscating this debate isn't necessarily originating solely out of Hoboh's gob.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

^ (please note, I did not start this post with "So, ...")

[Worthy4England]

Help advance the process is an offer of fck all.

Her being prepared to start admission talks doesn't mean every other member state is.

She is entitled to offer Germany's support/vote etc. Which she's alluded to doing, which is a million miles different from saying "The EU will...."

She might believe she could swing the vote, with the German EU vote backing it. That's fine too. Then again it could be Mr Smoke meets Mrs Mirrors...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

You said "she wasn't supporting their entry into the EU". From what I posted, she clearly is.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

... now. Not that she has, but she will. Which is what Hoboh posted and you accused him, on that basis, of frothing at the mouth
Just trying to be factual. That's all.

[Worthy4England]

... now. Not that she has, but she will. Which is what Hoboh posted and you accused him, on that basis, of frothing at the mouth
Just trying to be factual. That's all.

That's fine. I like factual. Using your quotes...she's said she'd:

1) Help advance the process.... that's not, as far as I read it, necessarily a commitment to support membership. It says she'll seek to make a process progress.

2) She asked "how we can organize Turkish accession more dynamically". That could easily equate to talking about some shit in parallel, I don't see any promise there, it's a question....

If you want to point me at where she's said she's going to support, then happy to go and read up some more.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

... now. Not that she has, but she will. Which is what Hoboh posted and you accused him, on that basis, of frothing at the mouth
Just trying to be factual. That's all.

That's fine. I like factual. Using your quotes...she's said she'd:

1) Help advance the process.... that's not, as far as I read it, necessarily a commitment to support membership. It says she'll seek to make a process progress.

2) She asked "how we can organize Turkish accession more dynamically". That could easily equate to talking about some shit in parallel, I don't see any promise there, it's a question....

If you want to point me at where she's said she's going to support, then happy to go and read up some more.

The Times stated "[Merkel] declared [to Erdogan] she was prepared to start admission talks whilst simultaneously negotiating on chapter23/24 [human rights]... if concessions on border security were "strengthened"."

[Worthy4England]

That says she supports Turkey's entry into the EU where? I've clearly missed it (because it doesn't) - it says she's prepared to start admission talks. Whether Germany or the EU or anyone else actually supports Turkey being in the EU will almost certainly be dependent on the outcome of the talks, which themselves will also have the human rights chapters as part of the basis.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

That says she supports Turkey's entry into the EU where? I've clearly missed it (because it doesn't) - it says she's prepared to start admission talks. Whether Germany or the EU or anyone else actually supports Turkey being in the EU will almost certainly be dependent on the outcome of the talks, which themselves will also have the human rights chapters as part of the basis.

Turkey's admission into the EU has, in the past, been blocked by Germany. They never were going to join without Germany's buy in. The fact she has said admission talks can start means that she is now supporting Turkey's entry into the EU. The article made that abundantly clear. It used words such as U-turn, promise, help advance. The deal was explicitly outlined and clear: Germany is prepared to support Turkey's entry into the EU with the quid pro quo that Turkey blocks the Syrian diaspora.

[Worthy4England]

That says she supports Turkey's entry into the EU where? I've clearly missed it (because it doesn't) - it says she's prepared to start admission talks. Whether Germany or the EU or anyone else actually supports Turkey being in the EU will almost certainly be dependent on the outcome of the talks, which themselves will also have the human rights chapters as part of the basis.

Turkey's admission into the EU has, in the past, been blocked by Germany. They never were going to join without Germany's buy in. The fact she has said admission talks can start means that she is now supporting Turkey's entry into the EU. The article made that abundantly clear. It used words such as U-turn, promise, help advance. The deal was explicitly outlined and clear: Germany is prepared to support Turkey's entry into the EU with the quid pro quo that Turkey blocks the Syrian diaspora.

Like the newspapers, you are drawing assertions that may or may not be true.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

If you want to point me at where she's said she's going to support, then happy to go and read up some more.

Germany is prepared to support Turkey's entry into the EU with the quid pro quo that Turkey blocks the Syrian diaspora.

Like the newspapers, you are drawing assertions that may or may not be true.

I am drawing no assertions other than point out that Hoboh wasn't the only one frothing at the mouth. On the other hand I specifically did as you asked and pointed you straight at an article. The fact the article is from a newspaper and may or may not be true wasn't in my remit.
If you don't want to read the article, fine. But it was other than the Daily Mail and it supported what Hoboh was frothing about. Whether the Times made it up or not i'm inclined to believe that they reported what they believed to be true - I have to believe that because it wasn't an opinion piece and was presented as straight journalism with quotes and stuff. I don't believe anybody reading the article could assert I drew assertions, I've merely reported what the reporters reported.

[Worthy4England]

Ok I'm not coming back to this one after this post - it's pointless. I've read the article. You still haven't been able to point me at one quote from Merkel, where she's has said she will support Turkish accession to the EU (with or without reservations)....

There are a number of things she's quoted as saying - all of which point to seeing if the process could be speeded up. None of which actually promise the German vote on accession as far as I've read and none of which promise a successful outcome. That doesn't mean she might not have promised it in the background - just that it's not quoted anywhere. It's plenty possible she's said it and I've missed it.

You said "she wasn't supporting their entry into the EU". From what I posted, she clearly is

That's the assertion you made that I disagree with.

In reality, I think she will bring the German vote to get Turkey back to the EU negotiating table (different than supporting their entry into the EU). Turkey already has support within other EU member states such as ourselves (UK). Whether or not Turkey concede on Cyprus/Greece issues (port usage etc.) remains to be seen and their human rights record under Erdogan is deteriorating and if Turkey doesn't move on these whether they will remain a problem that still doesn't secure enough votes for accession remains a point of conjecture (in my mind - I don't think it's a "given")

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Ok I'm not coming back to this one after this post - it's pointless. I've read the article. You still haven't been able to point me at one quote from Merkel, where she's has said she will support Turkish accession to the EU (with or without reservations)....

There are a number of things she's quoted as saying - all of which point to seeing if the process could be speeded up. None of which actually promise the German vote on accession as far as I've read and none of which promise a successful outcome. That doesn't mean she might not have promised it in the background - just that it's not quoted anywhere. It's plenty possible she's said it and I've missed it.

You said "she wasn't supporting their entry into the EU". From what I posted, she clearly is

That's the assertion you made that I disagree with.

In reality, I think she will bring the German vote to get Turkey back to the EU negotiating table (different than supporting their entry into the EU). Turkey already has support within other EU member states such as ourselves (UK). Whether or not Turkey concede on Cyprus/Greece issues (port usage etc.) remains to be seen and their human rights record under Erdogan is deteriorating and if Turkey doesn't move on these whether they will remain a problem that still doesn't secure enough votes for accession remains a point of conjecture (in my mind - I don't think it's a "given")

I disagree with you that Germany trying to get Turkey back to the negotiating table is different to supporting their entry, because if they weren't supporting their entry there is absolutely no point to them being at the negotiating table. Plus a quid pro quo is only that if both parties do something for each other: Germany's asking for specific action with Turkey requesting support.

I agree that maybe, just maybe, I made an assertion there. It's an assertion that is to my mind so self evident as to be almost reportage, but given the fact you are disagreeing with what I think is self-evident then it becomes an assertion.

And OK, we'll agree to disagree because as you say you ain't coming back to this one. (but I got the last word in, )

[Worthy4England]

<silence>

Anyhow back to my response to Hoboh - Hobes, you're wrong! wrong! wrong!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

<silence>

Anyhow back to my response to Hoboh - Hobes, you're wrong! wrong! wrong!

cheating fecker!

[Worthy4England]

I have aspirations to be a Chancellor, one day.

[Hoboh]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/o ... ate-speech" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They must be getting really quite worried about her success, try as I might I cannot see anything inciting racial hatred in what she said
Dirty tricks of the left and liberals strike again, too many Watsons in their organisations.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

By the way Hobes, not that Worthy will say anything because he's closed the subject, but..

"Ahmet Davutoglu made the remarks a day after ANGELA MERKEL STRUCK A DEAL IN ANKARA TO LIFT GERMANY'S OPPOSITION TO FUTURE TURKISH MEMBERSHIP OF THE UNION"

I think it would be pure sophistry if anybody denied that didn't equate to support for Turkey's accession, don't you?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

It even follows with

Mrs Merkel was criticised by political allies in Germany and France over her willingness to support Turkish EU membership. ...the German interior minister and confidant of Mrs Merkel sought to defend the TURKISH DEAL.

.