The Politics Thread

[hisroyalgingerness]

I hope so... provided there's no question of a Tory government to return us to the disasters of mass unemployment, 15% interest rates and 18 month queues for NHS surgery... And they will, if we're stupid enough to allow them, they will...

Oh my. I've never read such desperate shite in all my life.

Go on then, tell me. I reckon that Labour's raise on NI contributions will lead to greater unemployment. You tell me how a Tory government will lead to, as you say, "mass unemployment"? 15% Interest rates? 18 month queues for NHS surgery?
Oh, and under your fantstic Labour government, up to now I've been pushed back from last November until, from the latest letter, mid July for the surgery that I need, so don't give me that shit either!

I can tell you how they managed the first two last time around....

I'm only interested in 'this time around'.

No lessons to be learned from the past, Bruce? Ever? How on earth do you manage to prevent yourself making the same mistake twice?

Then how come Labour haven't learned to not feck up economic growth?

[Little Green Man]

I must say I'm fairly ignorant on the whole PR argument, all I know is on a basic level it means a vote for a smaller party carries much more worth, but what happens to the idea of an MP and his/her constituency?

Anyone?

It's pretty much broken - one of the standards 'cons' in the PR discussion is that the local is link is reduced and much more power is given to parties and their lists.

That to some extent would depend on the system of PR that was chosen. PR doesn't have to have a list system. Of course we have two houses of parliament (one that legislates and one that reforms legislation because the former has not done it's job properly) so it might not be beyond the wit of our politicians (or may be it is) to come up with some form of a constituency representation in one or both of them.

[Worthy4England]

Oh my. I've never read such desperate shite in all my life.

Go on then, tell me. I reckon that Labour's raise on NI contributions will lead to greater unemployment. You tell me how a Tory government will lead to, as you say, "mass unemployment"? 15% Interest rates? 18 month queues for NHS surgery?
Oh, and under your fantstic Labour government, up to now I've been pushed back from last November until, from the latest letter, mid July for the surgery that I need, so don't give me that shit either!

I can tell you how they managed the first two last time around....

I'm only interested in 'this time around'.

No lessons to be learned from the past, Bruce? Ever? How on earth do you manage to prevent yourself making the same mistake twice?

Then how come Labour haven't learned to not feck up economic growth?

That would be the longest uninterrupted period of economic growth in the UK on record (45 consecutive quarters) I guess you're on about?

BBC reckons that makes it the longest period of sustained growth in 200 years - although I'm not sure how they've worked it back that far.

Sure it's been rather spectacularly punctured with the global economic crisis starting in Q1 2008 - I guess your viewpoint will be coloured by how much you believe the Government was responsible for a global crash or just one of many governments affected by it.

[Little Green Man]

I hope so... provided there's no question of a Tory government to return us to the disasters of mass unemployment, 15% interest rates and 18 month queues for NHS surgery... And they will, if we're stupid enough to allow them, they will...

Even if people thought that was likely, why would it make them want to stick with a very tired-looking Labour party, a party who negligently presided over the reckless borrowing (egged on by the banks) that fed the 10-15% house price inflation for several years and which was only ever going to end in an almighty great economic crash (albeit one that was made much worse because the same kind of things were going on in the US).

Not that I'd trust the fiscal pygmy that is David Cameron's apparent choice for Chancellor.

[Worthy4England]

I must say I'm fairly ignorant on the whole PR argument, all I know is on a basic level it means a vote for a smaller party carries much more worth, but what happens to the idea of an MP and his/her constituency?

Anyone?

It's pretty much broken - one of the standards 'cons' in the PR discussion is that the local is link is reduced and much more power is given to parties and their lists.

That to some extent would depend on the system of PR that was chosen. PR doesn't have to have a list system. Of course we have two houses of parliament (one that legislates and one that reforms legislation because the former has not done it's job properly) so it might not be beyond the wit of our politicians (or may be it is) to come up with some form of a constituency representation in one or both of them.

Not sure how many people vote for their MP now, because of who they are - I reckon most vote based on the party policies that they are likely to follow, so I'm not convinced a PR system would erode this - it may well enhance it - I'd be much more likely to vote for non-big-two party candidate, if I thought there was a fair chance of their party getting getting enough seats to seriously contribute and alter the landscape.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I truly can't help but wonder why a young person would vote conservative? I can see an older cynical person thinking that they want to look after themselves but find it really strange when younger voters follow that road. Perhaps I was just too idealistic in my yooth

Who is offering more idealism than the Conservatives in this election?

[William the White]

I hope so... provided there's no question of a Tory government to return us to the disasters of mass unemployment, 15% interest rates and 18 month queues for NHS surgery... And they will, if we're stupid enough to allow them, they will...

Even if people thought that was likely, why would it make them want to stick with a very tired-looking Labour party, a party who negligently presided over the reckless borrowing (egged on by the banks) that fed the 10-15% house price inflation for several years and which was only ever going to end in an almighty great economic crash (albeit one that was made much worse because the same kind of things were going on in the US).

Not that I'd trust the fiscal pygmy that is David Cameron's apparent choice for Chancellor.

If people thought it was likely (and it's only a summary of the 'achievements' of Thatcher) they would be very well advised to vote for this 'tired' Labour government because this 'lively' Tory alternative is looking to Osborne to lead the return of their golden days...

For myself, if i could vote 'no overall control' I would, and i think I might be in a majority... So, hugely important as far as I'm concerned to stop a Tory majority for two reasons - it would be disastrous in itself and, possibly more important, would stop the best chance for a shift towards real democracy in the political system in my life time... I want PR...

[William the White]

I truly can't help but wonder why a young person would vote conservative? I can see an older cynical person thinking that they want to look after themselves but find it really strange when younger voters follow that road. Perhaps I was just too idealistic in my yooth

Who is offering more idealism than the Conservatives in this election?

Do elucidate... please...

[Worthy4England]

I truly can't help but wonder why a young person would vote conservative? I can see an older cynical person thinking that they want to look after themselves but find it really strange when younger voters follow that road. Perhaps I was just too idealistic in my yooth

Who is offering more idealism than the Conservatives in this election?

I will offer you a share of the moon and you're own private sunny beach in Blackpool all the year round - think I can deliver on it?

[William the White]

I must say I'm fairly ignorant on the whole PR argument, all I know is on a basic level it means a vote for a smaller party carries much more worth, but what happens to the idea of an MP and his/her constituency?

Anyone?

It's pretty much broken - one of the standards 'cons' in the PR discussion is that the local is link is reduced and much more power is given to parties and their lists.

That to some extent would depend on the system of PR that was chosen. PR doesn't have to have a list system. Of course we have two houses of parliament (one that legislates and one that reforms legislation because the former has not done it's job properly) so it might not be beyond the wit of our politicians (or may be it is) to come up with some form of a constituency representation in one or both of them.

Not sure how many people vote for their MP now, because of who they are - I reckon most vote based on the party policies that they are likely to follow, so I'm not convinced a PR system would erode this - it may well enhance it - I'd be much more likely to vote for non-big-two party candidate, if I thought there was a fair chance of their party getting getting enough seats to seriously contribute and alter the landscape.

Yes! Spot on...

[Little Green Man]

Not sure how many people vote for their MP now, because of who they are - I reckon most vote based on the party policies that they are likely to follow, so I'm not convinced a PR system would erode this - it may well enhance it - I'd be much more likely to vote for non-big-two party candidate, if I thought there was a fair chance of their party getting getting enough seats to seriously contribute and alter the landscape.

I think you're right on that, I don't recall ever having based my vote on the character or localness of the candidate. I presume there are some people who still do though.

I've got a feeling that I may get to vote for the winning candidate for the first time. However my voting card hasn't arrived so I'm beginning to wonder if the Post Office has disenfranchised me. I know you don't have to take the card but our post is so shite these days (sorry Porrohman!) I don't even know if I'll have had the document to re-register for the electoral roll this year.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I truly can't help but wonder why a young person would vote conservative? I can see an older cynical person thinking that they want to look after themselves but find it really strange when younger voters follow that road. Perhaps I was just too idealistic in my yooth

Who is offering more idealism than the Conservatives in this election?

Do elucidate... please...

How can I elucidate on a simple question to another poster?

[William the White]

I truly can't help but wonder why a young person would vote conservative? I can see an older cynical person thinking that they want to look after themselves but find it really strange when younger voters follow that road. Perhaps I was just too idealistic in my yooth

Who is offering more idealism than the Conservatives in this election?

Do elucidate... please...

How can I elucidate on a simple question to another poster?

Sorry, I thought there was just a hint of the rhetorical in the question.

Still, i understand... The shedding of light is difficult for you...

[Lord Kangana]

Anyhoo, on the hot potato of tactical voting, it does come across as a bit desperate by the boy Hayne.

But then the Tories will also not admit that they're scared shitless by it. And for why? If the Libdems become the makeweights in a coalition government, they will demand voting reform. Proportional representation would destroy the Conservative party overnight. The loons would go to the BNP and UKIP, and the Clarkistas would probably work with any government (they are practically social democrats anyway) . I notice no-one has mentioned any of this. We stand on the verge of something big, I wonder if the Great British Public will hold its collective nerve?

[Worthy4England]

Anyhoo, on the hot potato of tactical voting, it does come across as a bit desperate by the boy Hayne.

But then the Tories will also not admit that they're scared shitless by it. And for why? If the Libdems become the makeweights in a coalition government, they will demand voting reform. Proportional representation would destroy the Conservative party overnight. The loons would go to the BNP and UKIP, and the Clarkistas would probably work with any government (they are practically social democrats anyway) . I notice no-one has mentioned any of this. We stand on the verge of something big, I wonder if the Great British Public will hold its collective nerve?

To the second para, you may well be correct LK. But. If people really believe UKIP (or the BNP for that matter) are the party for them, then they should be entitled to vote accordingly and be represented on that proportional share...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I truly can't help but wonder why a young person would vote conservative? I can see an older cynical person thinking that they want to look after themselves but find it really strange when younger voters follow that road. Perhaps I was just too idealistic in my yooth

Who is offering more idealism than the Conservatives in this election?

Do elucidate... please...

How can I elucidate on a simple question to another poster?

Sorry, I thought there was just a hint of the rhetorical in the question.

Still, i understand... The shedding of light is difficult for you...

Well obviously I start with an opinion, but I'm honestly interested in Gertie's answer.

I'd be interested in yours too, if you want to answer?

And I'm not sure why shedding light is difficult for me in particular?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I truly can't help but wonder why a young person would vote conservative? I can see an older cynical person thinking that they want to look after themselves but find it really strange when younger voters follow that road. Perhaps I was just too idealistic in my yooth

Who is offering more idealism than the Conservatives in this election?

I will offer you a share of the moon and you're own private sunny beach in Blackpool all the year round - think I can deliver on it?

Ah, but we're specifically talking about 'idealism' here, and not cynical, pragmatic realities.

[Little Green Man]

If the Libdems become the makeweights in a coalition government, they will demand voting reform.

I suspect that if they're in partnership with the Tories then all that they will or indeed could demand would be a referendum on it.

What I would like them to request if they get the chance is fixed-term parliaments. None of this 'well we may go to the country after four unless we've f*cked up then it'll be the full five although if the opposition are in turmoil then we might go for a cheeky three in the hope that we get another five before they've sorted themselves out' nonsense.

[William the White]

Who is offering more idealism than the Conservatives in this election?

Do elucidate... please...

How can I elucidate on a simple question to another poster?

Sorry, I thought there was just a hint of the rhetorical in the question.

Still, i understand... The shedding of light is difficult for you...

Well obviously I start with an opinion, but I'm honestly interested in Gertie's answer.

I'd be interested in yours too, if you want to answer?

And I'm not sure why shedding light is difficult for me in particular?

Tory 'idealism' in this election amounts to what? That was the elucidation I asked for.

Please, go on... Your leader has long ago ceased using the 'Big Society' slogan... Because he knows the egg is hollow... go ahead... fill it...

Please...

[Lord Kangana]

They will.

Allegedly it'll be
(Tories choice) a: Keep FPTP
b: whatever the Libdems want to put.

Supposedly the deal has already been discussed.