Brexit or Britin

[Worthy4England]

Not sure on the wording but isn't there a sense in saying "this is the brexit deal we will have" and letting people make some kind of decision at that point?

Given that so far they've voted on a known deal vs an unknown one?

I mean as much as I have absolutely no appetite for another referendum there is a certain small strain of argument here that makes sense. Go back to the electorate and say, this is what Brexit looks like is that still what you want given we now know what the terms actually are?

I'm not sure I agree... But I'm not sure on what basis they could come back with a deal that:

1) Doesn't get immigration down to 10's of thousands
2) Doesn't stop us paying £350m a week to Brussels and reduces it to zero
3) Doesn't lose any existing grants to farmers, R&D and the like

I think those are immoveable, and if they achieve them, I don't think there should be any sort of second vote. If as a result of all the above there were any adverse or improved economic effects, they'd just have to deal with them.

I'm fairly sure come election time, someone will remind them that the Foreign Secretary promised £350m a week extra for the NHS.

They should be held accountable to the electorate on it and will be at some point. I'm not at all convinced that parliament should block it, if those two things as a minimum are achieved.

[boltonboris]

there'll just be more insufferable bullshit and hearsay from both sides and you can guarantee a turnout massively lower than the last.

I certainly wouldn't bother. What's the point in having a vote if it just gets kyboshed for not being the 'right' one in people's eyes

[BWFC_Insane]

Not sure on the wording but isn't there a sense in saying "this is the brexit deal we will have" and letting people make some kind of decision at that point?

Given that so far they've voted on a known deal vs an unknown one?

I mean as much as I have absolutely no appetite for another referendum there is a certain small strain of argument here that makes sense. Go back to the electorate and say, this is what Brexit looks like is that still what you want given we now know what the terms actually are?

I'm not sure I agree... But I'm not sure on what basis they could come back with a deal that:

1) Doesn't get immigration down to 10's of thousands
2) Doesn't stop us paying £350m a week to Brussels and reduces it to zero
3) Doesn't lose any existing grants to farmers, R&D and the like

I think those are immoveable, and if they achieve them, I don't think there should be any sort of second vote. If as a result of all the above there were any adverse or improved economic effects, they'd just have to deal with them.

I'm fairly sure come election time, someone will remind them that the Foreign Secretary promised £350m a week extra for the NHS.

They should be held accountable to the electorate on it and will be at some point. I'm not at all convinced that parliament should block it, if those two things as a minimum are achieved.

I agree though I meant more a vote once the terms of a Brexit were agreed...then we'd have an option between staying in with a known situation and leaving to a known situation.

But yeah I don't think they should do it. I think there is a small shred of logic to the argument but like others have said I don't think there is an appetite for it.

[Harry Genshaw]

Not sure on the wording but isn't there a sense in saying "this is the brexit deal we will have" and letting people make some kind of decision at that point?

Given that so far they've voted on a known deal vs an unknown one?

I mean as much as I have absolutely no appetite for another referendum there is a certain small strain of argument here that makes sense. Go back to the electorate and say, this is what Brexit looks like is that still what you want given we now know what the terms actually are?

Can I have another general election then on the basis of this is what a Tory Govt looks like. Are you sure you still want to vote this way?

[BWFC_Insane]

Not sure on the wording but isn't there a sense in saying "this is the brexit deal we will have" and letting people make some kind of decision at that point?

Given that so far they've voted on a known deal vs an unknown one?

I mean as much as I have absolutely no appetite for another referendum there is a certain small strain of argument here that makes sense. Go back to the electorate and say, this is what Brexit looks like is that still what you want given we now know what the terms actually are?

Can I have another general election then on the basis of this is what a Tory Govt looks like. Are you sure you still want to vote this way?

Well again, that would be an argument many have made.

But since I didn't, haven't and never will vote Tory I might be one of the worst people to ask this of!

[bobo the clown]

It's most unbecoming this wriggling on the end of a stick.

[Lord Kangana]

Of course you can have another general election. They have to be held a minimum of every 5 years. We don't just aceept that form of government forever.

[thebish]

I agree though I meant more a vote once the terms of a Brexit were agreed...then we'd have an option between staying in with a known situation and leaving to a known situation.

But yeah I don't think they should do it. I think there is a small shred of logic to the argument but like others have said I don't think there is an appetite for it.

we won't know the terms of the settlement/deal until after we have triggered article 50 - only then will serious negotiation take place. having triggered articl 50 are we allowed - at the end of 2yrs - to tell europe - "sorry, we've changed our minds"? I'm not at all sure that would be a real option...

[bobo the clown]

No. We aren't. Hence the various uses of the term "Brexit is Brexit". Used by both UK politicians and European ones.

Whether the Europeans would offer that option would be their call but really that was for the time Cameron wandered aimlessly around seeking concessions which, largely, he failed to achieve.

I also would expect that by the time the negotiations have been ongoing for 2 years everyone will be fed up with everyone else.

It remains to be seen whether other nations will begin to look outwards. I suspect some may. But 2 years is a long time in politics, as someone very nearly said.

[Prufrock]

Only justification I can see for another referendum would be 1) Europe cave on something big like free movement while allowing us to stay in the EU proper, or 2) we have another general election before we leave which is won by s party who say in their manifesto we're having a referendum on any terms.

I don't either scenario is likely.

[Lord Kangana]

I suspect keeping a weather eye on the clusterf*ck going on in Switzerland will be a good guide.

[bobo the clown]

... or France.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... eft-and-r/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lord Kangana]

I'm not quite sure an opinion piece by Simon Zinc-Trumpet-Harris is as pressing as the outcome of an actual referendum on the EU though.

[bobo the clown]

No. But it shows there are many people in many countries disgruntled. Just that they aren't being given the opportunity to say so.

[Hoboh]

I have noticed, just recently, any top level discussions to do with the EU, Juncker has been side-lined, he and others of his ilk are on the way out.

A pity the EU could not have dealt with these federalists earlier and junked the Euro.

[bobo the clown]

I heard a couple of months ago that he was Junker & Shultz were toast. He's hanging on in to get some form of honorary role (& income, I guess).

But the Italian financial crisis is the one to really watch out for.

[Enoch]

That Mervyn King must be some kind of tosser, imagine thinking everything will turn out ok.

[thebish]

That Mervyn King must be some kind of tosser, imagine thinking everything will turn out ok.

we haven't left yet!!

imagine - we're still in the EU and folk are saying it's ace!

[Enoch]

The way to a jam filled tomorrow most cetainly isn't via lots of hand wringing, doom, or gloom.

I guess in any aspect of life, being negative is just the default, lazy option.

Possibly.

[Lord Kangana]

Which would, if you care to think about it, obviously beg the question of why we needed a referendum in the first place.