Brexit or Britin

[Lord Kangana]

I think the publics imagination has been grabbed by photos of desperate Syrian refugees fleeing into Iraq with a gurning Kermit the Bellend stood in front of it.

But by all means invent whichever narrative makes you feel like you're not part of an enlarged and enboldened Britain First mob.

Why not use the favourite leftist words "fascist" and " Nazi" to illustrate your intemperate swipe at reasoned discussion. After all it is the only means which you can employ to counter logical argument. Where the fcuk you managed to extrapolate Britain First from needs some explanation from you.
I'm of the opinion that you are one of the persons most suited to working for world peace by becoming a negotiator with ISIS.

If this were a reasoned discussion, please explain why the leave campaign felt the need to use pictures of Syrian refugees fleeing into Iraq with the strapline 'Breaking point' in a referendum about our membership of the EU?

I realise this will be uncomfortable for you, but perhaps its because it was a Fascist act? Pissing and moaning that it wasn't doesn't actually mean it wasn't.

[Harry Genshaw]

I think the publics imagination has been grabbed by photos of desperate Syrian refugees fleeing into Iraq with a gurning Kermit the Bellend stood in front of it.

But by all means invent whichever narrative makes you feel like you're not part of an enlarged and enboldened Britain First mob.

Why not use the favourite leftist words "fascist" and " Nazi" to illustrate your intemperate swipe at reasoned discussion. After all it is the only means which you can employ to counter logical argument. Where the fcuk you managed to extrapolate Britain First from needs some explanation from you.
I'm of the opinion that you are one of the persons most suited to working for world peace by becoming a negotiator with ISIS.

If this were a reasoned discussion, please explain why the leave campaign felt the need to use pictures of Syrian refugees fleeing into Iraq with the strapline 'Breaking point' in a referendum about our membership of the EU?

I realise this will be uncomfortable for you, but perhaps its because it was a Fascist act? Pissing and moaning that it wasn't doesn't actually mean it wasn't.

Wasn't it a UKIP poster? Albeit with 'Vote Leave' on it?

I, and I suspect the overwhelming majority of folk who voted to leave, did so in the knowledge that UKIP were uncomfortable bedfellows. Just in the same way that many who voted to remain wouldn't have wanted to endorse Cameron & Osborne. Doesn't make us racist or part of Britain first does it

[BWFC_Insane]

I think the publics imagination has been grabbed by photos of desperate Syrian refugees fleeing into Iraq with a gurning Kermit the Bellend stood in front of it.

But by all means invent whichever narrative makes you feel like you're not part of an enlarged and enboldened Britain First mob.

Why not use the favourite leftist words "fascist" and " Nazi" to illustrate your intemperate swipe at reasoned discussion. After all it is the only means which you can employ to counter logical argument. Where the fcuk you managed to extrapolate Britain First from needs some explanation from you.
I'm of the opinion that you are one of the persons most suited to working for world peace by becoming a negotiator with ISIS.

If this were a reasoned discussion, please explain why the leave campaign felt the need to use pictures of Syrian refugees fleeing into Iraq with the strapline 'Breaking point' in a referendum about our membership of the EU?

I realise this will be uncomfortable for you, but perhaps its because it was a Fascist act? Pissing and moaning that it wasn't doesn't actually mean it wasn't.

Wasn't it a UKIP poster? Albeit with 'Vote Leave' on it?

I, and I suspect the overwhelming majority of folk who voted to leave, did so in the knowledge that UKIP were uncomfortable bedfellows. Just in the same way that many who voted to remain wouldn't have wanted to endorse Cameron & Osborne. Doesn't make us racist or part of Britain first does it

The problem as far as I see it, is that whilst not every leave voter is a racist neanderthal, the leave campaign was allowed to be dominated by the bigoted, inward looking, casual racism that promotes the idea, amongst wrong minded folk, that actually it is ok to be a bit of a racist.

The issue is that the leavers spent so much time doing the whole "we're not racist but...." stuff that actually it all sounded a little hollow and much of the leave campaign was grounded in divisive, non-inclusive type language that merely stoked up the ante.

Given UKIP were leading lights on the leave side I think suggesting they were merely "uncomfortable bedfellows" is somewhat misguided. They were the heartbeat of that sentiment. Sure, most people who voted leave don't vote UKIP, and never will. It still has the unfortunate affect of legitimising certain behaviours in those who will look for any excuse.

Ultimately it is hard to reconcile the leave campaign in it's entirety with anything other than at the very best nationalism and xenophobia.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Both campaigns were pretty shameful. There are MPs that were on the remain side that have played to the anti-immigration gallery before and since the referendum. Teresa May's billboard vans, amongst other things, are likely to have contributed to the current atmosphere, so I don't think we can pin it all on Nige and co.

Rather than simply point the finger at Leave, why don't we make the point that the government already has the ability to reduce immigration and all that will happen is that immigration will remain high and more of it come from countries outside of the EU. It will be a picture to see the genuine racists when they realise it will likely mean more brown people, not less

[bedwetter2]

I think the publics imagination has been grabbed by photos of desperate Syrian refugees fleeing into Iraq with a gurning Kermit the Bellend stood in front of it.

But by all means invent whichever narrative makes you feel like you're not part of an enlarged and enboldened Britain First mob.

Why not use the favourite leftist words "fascist" and " Nazi" to illustrate your intemperate swipe at reasoned discussion. After all it is the only means which you can employ to counter logical argument. Where the fcuk you managed to extrapolate Britain First from needs some explanation from you.
I'm of the opinion that you are one of the persons most suited to working for world peace by becoming a negotiator with ISIS.

If this were a reasoned discussion, please explain why the leave campaign felt the need to use pictures of Syrian refugees fleeing into Iraq with the strapline 'Breaking point' in a referendum about our membership of the EU?

I realise this will be uncomfortable for you, but perhaps its because it was a Fascist act? Pissing and moaning that it wasn't doesn't actually mean it wasn't.

I'm afraid that you are getting a little hung up on who did what to whom.

The campaigns for both leave and remain were fairly rank, perhaps the UKIP bit being filled with greater hyperbole than most of the rest. However, most of the people of my acqaintance who voted to leave the EU took little to no notice of the campaigns having had their minds made up by the steady drip-drip of damning evidence of an appallingly incompetent and corrupt Commission over several years. The current triumvirate heading the EU are inconsequential pygmies in my view.

Again, I challenge you to explain your "Fascist" and "Britain First" comments when applied to the leave campaign and, by extension, leave voters because it's a big leap to suggest any connection.

[Worthy4England]

Both campaigns were pretty shameful. There are MPs that were on the remain side that have played to the anti-immigration gallery before and since the referendum. Teresa May's billboard vans, amongst other things, are likely to have contributed to the current atmosphere, so I don't think we can pin it all on Nige and co.

Rather than simply point the finger at Leave, why don't we make the point that the government already has the ability to reduce immigration and all that will happen is that immigration will remain high and more of it come from countries outside of the EU. It will be a picture to see the genuine racists when they realise it will likely mean more brown people, not less

This, indeed.

The BNP polled best part of a million votes once over. English Democrats best part of 300,000 in the same election. I don't believe it's unreasonable at that scale to suggest that the difference between exit and remain was a load of jack booted, facist bastards.

[Lord Kangana]

No lies, just bait for stupid c*nts, right?

I can only repeat myself here.... but do you not even feel a twinge of embarrassment that these sentiments are the ones you voted for?

Because, just in case you missed it, these represent the views of a side of an argument that is yours not mine. It's not for me to be defending my views when you'll happily tolerate this and defend it.

[Nicko58]

The problem as far as I see it, is that whilst not every leave voter is a racist neanderthal, the leave campaign was allowed to be dominated by the bigoted, inward looking, casual racism that promotes the idea, amongst wrong minded folk, that actually it is ok to be a bit of a racist.

The issue is that the leavers spent so much time doing the whole "we're not racist but...." stuff that actually it all sounded a little hollow and much of the leave campaign was grounded in divisive, non-inclusive type language that merely stoked up the ante.

Given UKIP were leading lights on the leave side I think suggesting they were merely "uncomfortable bedfellows" is somewhat misguided. They were the heartbeat of that sentiment. Sure, most people who voted leave don't vote UKIP, and never will. It still has the unfortunate affect of legitimising certain behaviours in those who will look for any excuse.

Ultimately it is hard to reconcile the leave campaign in it's entirety with anything other than at the very best nationalism and xenophobia.

If someone paid no attention to either of the official campaigns, carried out their own research, weighed up the pros and cons, and decided to vote to leave for reasons other than immigration, why would they be legitimising the behaviours of other people?

[Worthy4England]

If they carried out their own research in any way diligently, it can't have escaped their notice that "Britain First" and the like were all supporting Brexit. It wouldn't be unreasonable to observe that them voting the same way as a load of skinheaded racists didn't worry them particularly.

[Bruce Rioja]

I don't know why you're all getting so upset. We're about to buy a very minor German competitor so that we can free-issue / inter company transfer stock to them come Brexit. If we can find a way around it then so can everyone.

[Worthy4England]

I don't know why you're all getting so upset. We're about to buy a very minor German competitor so that we can free-issue / inter company transfer stock to them come Brexit. If we can find a way around it then so can everyone.

Don't think that in itself is a major problem. We do the same already. Think the more significant problems are

Passporting rights on Financial Services
Tariffs relating to country of origin

[Nicko58]

If they carried out their own research in any way diligently, it can't have escaped their notice that "Britain First" and the like were all supporting Brexit. It wouldn't be unreasonable to observe that them voting the same way as a load of skinheaded racists didn't worry them particularly.

Perhaps it worried them a great deal, but they ultimately understood that it was a referendum on a multi-faceted issue, not a general election, and that a vote either way wouldn’t equate to a vote which legitimises Britain First’s agenda?

[Nicko58]

I should add that I agree completely that the accusation can be levelled at the Vote Leave campaign, and think that only a bigot couldn't be horrified at Farage's poster. I just think that it's wrong to say that people who disagreed with the tone of the Vote Leave campaign but still thought that we should leave have legitimised the views of a racist part just because they happened to vote the same way.

[BWFC_Insane]

The problem as far as I see it, is that whilst not every leave voter is a racist neanderthal, the leave campaign was allowed to be dominated by the bigoted, inward looking, casual racism that promotes the idea, amongst wrong minded folk, that actually it is ok to be a bit of a racist.

The issue is that the leavers spent so much time doing the whole "we're not racist but...." stuff that actually it all sounded a little hollow and much of the leave campaign was grounded in divisive, non-inclusive type language that merely stoked up the ante.

Given UKIP were leading lights on the leave side I think suggesting they were merely "uncomfortable bedfellows" is somewhat misguided. They were the heartbeat of that sentiment. Sure, most people who voted leave don't vote UKIP, and never will. It still has the unfortunate affect of legitimising certain behaviours in those who will look for any excuse.

Ultimately it is hard to reconcile the leave campaign in it's entirety with anything other than at the very best nationalism and xenophobia.

If someone paid no attention to either of the official campaigns, carried out their own research, weighed up the pros and cons, and decided to vote to leave for reasons other than immigration, why would they be legitimising the behaviours of other people?

Yeah but you're confusing blame and fact. I'm not saying anyone voting leave legitimised that behaviour, the way the campaign was run did, and the aftermath has. Those who look for any excuse have jumped onto the post referendum mood propagated during the campaign by the likes of the slogans and posters LK has shown. People who deep down just wanted to call foreigners whatever they liked, are trying to claim some sort of legitimacy.

[Worthy4England]

If they carried out their own research in any way diligently, it can't have escaped their notice that "Britain First" and the like were all supporting Brexit. It wouldn't be unreasonable to observe that them voting the same way as a load of skinheaded racists didn't worry them particularly.

Perhaps it worried them a great deal, but they ultimately understood that it was a referendum on a multi-faceted issue, not a general election, and that a vote either way wouldn’t equate to a vote which legitimises Britain First’s agenda?

They might have done all of the above - As has been said many times on here, by Brexiteer's, immigration was a central plank of Brexit. I don't think most folks on here would want to legitimize Britain First's agenda necessarily, but that fact is, the vote has gone some way unavoidably, to doing just that. The 1.2m people who voted BNP and Britain First (or whatever the were called at the time English Democrats?) in 2009 European Elections haven't all just gone away (it was around 8/9% of the turn-out. All the racist bastards are just clearly somewhere else. None here, no Siree.

[bedwetter2]

If they carried out their own research in any way diligently, it can't have escaped their notice that "Britain First" and the like were all supporting Brexit. It wouldn't be unreasonable to observe that them voting the same way as a load of skinheaded racists didn't worry them particularly.

Perhaps it worried them a great deal, but they ultimately understood that it was a referendum on a multi-faceted issue, not a general election, and that a vote either way wouldn’t equate to a vote which legitimises Britain First’s agenda?

They might have done all of the above - As has been said many times on here, by Brexiteer's, immigration was a central plank of Brexit. I don't think most folks on here would want to legitimize Britain First's agenda necessarily, but that fact is, the vote has gone some way unavoidably, to doing just that. The 1.2m people who voted BNP and Britain First (or whatever the were called at the time English Democrats?) in 2009 European Elections haven't all just gone away (it was around 8/9% of the turn-out. All the racist bastards are just clearly somewhere else. None here, no Siree.

Strange that all those racist fascists several people here are so lathered up about represent the smallest numbers of the electorate since the days of Oswald Mosley and are no credible threat to the British state in the way that left-wingers, communists/trotskyists and fellow travellers were in the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and 1980s - even the rent-a-mob violent protesters today. The history of the Labour party and some of the largest trades unions is less than glorious and in some cases tantamount to treason.

I see the leave voters (perhaps naively) as voting the way they did to protect something of Great Britain which seems to be under constant pressure to change. That doesn't mean anything to some people but to others certain things are worth preserving. The best means of doing so is to maintain sovereignty through our own parliament, however imperfect that is.

A lot of the leavers didn't want the whole world to end up on our doorstep expecting admission, that is true. They see only downsides to the damage to public services, the transport system, loss of greenbelt land, etc, etc, through an ever increasing population. There really needs to be a fundamental rethink of the out of control population growth across the whole world, not just in Europe or the Middle East but everywhere. The number of humans on this planet will be 8 blln soon and double to 16 blln in a further 50 years on current trends. Unsustainable. What appears extreme now will be horrific in a few decades with global war in search of finite resources which remain.

Trade and economics was another reason to vote leave. The Lisbon Treaty apparently includes 2 clauses which make it illegal for the EU to discriminate against the UK once Art 50 is triggered and therefore could be sued if tariffs are driven up to disadvantage the UK. Perhaps we shouldn't concern ourselves too much about WTO tariffs or the EU trying to punish us for our disobedience in determining to go. Anyway Juncker and Tusk will be out of a job soon together with the Brussels, Strasbourg, Luxembourg travelling bureaucrat circus when Italy ditches the Euro, and France and the Netherlands votes out.

[bedwetter2]

No lies, just bait for stupid c*nts, right?

I can only repeat myself here.... but do you not even feel a twinge of embarrassment that these sentiments are the ones you voted for?

Because, just in case you missed it, these represent the views of a side of an argument that is yours not mine. It's not for me to be defending my views when you'll happily tolerate this and defend it.

What on earth are you talking about man? It most certainly is for you to defend your views when you have called me, even by association, a fascist, racist member of Britain First or whatever. As to my defending or tolerating anything, I believe you will find that I have not once defended the posters and as to tolerating it may be unfortunate but I have not been in a position to stop them being displayed.

Nah, on reflection and giving your comments and views due consideration, you are a Bellend. And a very misshapen one at that, infected with that awful EU lovers disease.

[Worthy4England]

If they carried out their own research in any way diligently, it can't have escaped their notice that "Britain First" and the like were all supporting Brexit. It wouldn't be unreasonable to observe that them voting the same way as a load of skinheaded racists didn't worry them particularly.

Perhaps it worried them a great deal, but they ultimately understood that it was a referendum on a multi-faceted issue, not a general election, and that a vote either way wouldn’t equate to a vote which legitimises Britain First’s agenda?

They might have done all of the above - As has been said many times on here, by Brexiteer's, immigration was a central plank of Brexit. I don't think most folks on here would want to legitimize Britain First's agenda necessarily, but that fact is, the vote has gone some way unavoidably, to doing just that. The 1.2m people who voted BNP and Britain First (or whatever the were called at the time English Democrats?) in 2009 European Elections haven't all just gone away (it was around 8/9% of the turn-out. All the racist bastards are just clearly somewhere else. None here, no Siree.

Strange that all those racist fascists several people here are so lathered up about represent the smallest numbers of the electorate since the days of Oswald Mosley and are no credible threat to the British state in the way that left-wingers, communists/trotskyists and fellow travellers were in the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and 1980s - even the rent-a-mob violent protesters today. The history of the Labour party and some of the largest trades unions is less than glorious and in some cases tantamount to treason.

I see the leave voters (perhaps naively) as voting the way they did to protect something of Great Britain which seems to be under constant pressure to change. That doesn't mean anything to some people but to others certain things are worth preserving. The best means of doing so is to maintain sovereignty through our own parliament, however imperfect that is.

A lot of the leavers didn't want the whole world to end up on our doorstep expecting admission, that is true. They see only downsides to the damage to public services, the transport system, loss of greenbelt land, etc, etc, through an ever increasing population. There really needs to be a fundamental rethink of the out of control population growth across the whole world, not just in Europe or the Middle East but everywhere. The number of humans on this planet will be 8 blln soon and double to 16 blln in a further 50 years on current trends. Unsustainable. What appears extreme now will be horrific in a few decades with global war in search of finite resources which remain.

Trade and economics was another reason to vote leave. The Lisbon Treaty apparently includes 2 clauses which make it illegal for the EU to discriminate against the UK once Art 50 is triggered and therefore could be sued if tariffs are driven up to disadvantage the UK. Perhaps we shouldn't concern ourselves too much about WTO tariffs or the EU trying to punish us for our disobedience in determining to go. Anyway Juncker and Tusk will be out of a job soon together with the Brussels, Strasbourg, Luxembourg travelling bureaucrat circus when Italy ditches the Euro, and France and the Netherlands votes out.

I'm fairly sure I've previously said I don't believe your motives to be racist, so I'm not in that camp.

The bit in bold, though, you just made that up. Are you Michael Gove?

I see McCarthyism which I thought had died out about 200 years ago is still alive ad well and living near a Bolton Wanderers forum. I have just checked under my bed...

[Prufrock]

What's the only thing that could make UKIPs *more* attractive?

UKIPs in a scouse accent

[bedwetter2]

If they carried out their own research in any way diligently, it can't have escaped their notice that "Britain First" and the like were all supporting Brexit. It wouldn't be unreasonable to observe that them voting the same way as a load of skinheaded racists didn't worry them particularly.

Perhaps it worried them a great deal, but they ultimately understood that it was a referendum on a multi-faceted issue, not a general election, and that a vote either way wouldn’t equate to a vote which legitimises Britain First’s agenda?

They might have done all of the above - As has been said many times on here, by Brexiteer's, immigration was a central plank of Brexit. I don't think most folks on here would want to legitimize Britain First's agenda necessarily, but that fact is, the vote has gone some way unavoidably, to doing just that. The 1.2m people who voted BNP and Britain First (or whatever the were called at the time English Democrats?) in 2009 European Elections haven't all just gone away (it was around 8/9% of the turn-out. All the racist bastards are just clearly somewhere else. None here, no Siree.

Strange that all those racist fascists several people here are so lathered up about represent the smallest numbers of the electorate since the days of Oswald Mosley and are no credible threat to the British state in the way that left-wingers, communists/trotskyists and fellow travellers were in the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and 1980s - even the rent-a-mob violent protesters today. The history of the Labour party and some of the largest trades unions is less than glorious and in some cases tantamount to treason.

I see the leave voters (perhaps naively) as voting the way they did to protect something of Great Britain which seems to be under constant pressure to change. That doesn't mean anything to some people but to others certain things are worth preserving. The best means of doing so is to maintain sovereignty through our own parliament, however imperfect that is.

A lot of the leavers didn't want the whole world to end up on our doorstep expecting admission, that is true. They see only downsides to the damage to public services, the transport system, loss of greenbelt land, etc, etc, through an ever increasing population. There really needs to be a fundamental rethink of the out of control population growth across the whole world, not just in Europe or the Middle East but everywhere. The number of humans on this planet will be 8 blln soon and double to 16 blln in a further 50 years on current trends. Unsustainable. What appears extreme now will be horrific in a few decades with global war in search of finite resources which remain.

Trade and economics was another reason to vote leave. The Lisbon Treaty apparently includes 2 clauses which make it illegal for the EU to discriminate against the UK once Art 50 is triggered and therefore could be sued if tariffs are driven up to disadvantage the UK. Perhaps we shouldn't concern ourselves too much about WTO tariffs or the EU trying to punish us for our disobedience in determining to go. Anyway Juncker and Tusk will be out of a job soon together with the Brussels, Strasbourg, Luxembourg travelling bureaucrat circus when Italy ditches the Euro, and France and the Netherlands votes out.

I'm fairly sure I've previously said I don't believe your motives to be racist, so I'm not in that camp.

The bit in bold, though, you just made that up. Are you Michael Gove?

I see McCarthyism which I thought had died out about 200 years ago is still alive ad well and living near a Bolton Wanderers forum. I have just checked under my bed...

Cambridge spies 1930s, union activity including miners striking during the depths of WW2 in the 1940s, further "British" Russian spies during the 1950s (Philby ring a bell?), the attempt to blackmail members of the Government including Profumo in the 1960s, the wholesale attempts to subvert the largest unions such as the Electical and Allied during the 1970s (remember Les Chappell denouncing communist infiltrators?) paid for, in cash by the USSR, the rise of an organisation within an organisation in the 1980s (Derek Hatton, anyone?), the current situation with Labour and the Militant (under another name, of course) threat reemerging. These are just a few of the threats which have originated from the brainwashed left. There are many more, such as MPs being paid by the communists to influence parliamentary colleagues.

The hard left know they cannot gain power via the ballot box so they follow their own logic and find as many "useful idiots" as possible to influence strategically.

Don't bother to check under your bed, they perfected long distance listening devices long ago.