The Great Art Debate

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Mummy said:

Agreed - I don't think it's about 'equality' - just a nudge to 'look again' at a person you might ordinarily ignore, because your eye has (or may have) been tricked into recognising the visual language of the Byzantine icon.

Oh dear. Byzantine icons is it? Fair enough then.

I think that's the allusion, putting his head against a gold background like that.

[thebish]

icon of Peter...



you can see the stylistic similarities - not least - attention to face and hands...

[TANGODANCER]

Then again, it could be a background of bed springs stuck up in front of yellow curtains.

[Bruce Rioja]

Anyone have any ideas regarding the significance (or other) of the rose in the cup of coffee?

[thebish]

Anyone have any ideas regarding the significance (or other) of the rose in the cup of coffee?

no idea - but it's possible it is a wink to the prominence of the rose in christian iconography - often (though not exclusively) in catholic circles to symbolise Mary or things about Mary... putting it in a coffee cup might continue the theme of the spiritual in the ordinary...

just a guess...

[Bruce Rioja]

Maybe just a guess, Bish, but one that makes perfect sense given the context explained by PB. Thanks.

[TANGODANCER]

I thought that was a cup of coffee with a rose in it. On closer looking, might be wrong, but I think it's a rose in a coffee cup of soil.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Then again, it could be a background of bed springs stuck up in front of yellow curtains.

It's funny - if anything I thought the icon reference was a bit 'obvious'!

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Anyone have any ideas regarding the significance (or other) of the rose in the cup of coffee?

no idea - but it's possible it is a wink to the prominence of the rose in christian iconography - often (though not exclusively) in catholic circles to symbolise Mary or things about Mary... putting it in a coffee cup might continue the theme of the spiritual in the ordinary...

just a guess...

Or the spiritual in place of the material - i.e. the money that homeless people usually want in their empty coffee cups. The image is too low quality to zoom in, but I think the cup might just be empty but for shadow (and the rose).

[Montreal Wanderer]

I thought that was a cup of coffee with a rose in it. On closer looking, might be wrong, but I think it's a rose in a coffee cup of soil.

I am sure you are correct, Tango. The Guardian has a much higher resolution image if you click on the magnifying glass in the bottom right hand corner. It is not liquid in that cup and it is not empty, PB.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Ah, yes - in fact, now I am on my laptop rather than my phone, I realise it was obvious on the other picture anyway.

That's a much better picture of the face, too.

[William the White]

In Ottoman Art the rose is a reference to the prophet - or so we were told at the artists' collective in Istanbul. The rose was created from a tear shed by Mohammed when he went on his journey to Paradise. I'm not sure how accurate this is, horticulturally speaking...

I do like the portrait a lot, though, which works against all 'normal' depictions of the street dweller - neither villain nor victim, evoking not, fear not anger, not contempt and not pity either. A man in repose. Calm as he gazes back at us.

What size is this portrait, mummy, do you know? Russian icon size?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The entire painting is 160cm x 60cm, so a bit bigger. http://www.thepalettepages.com/2014/04/18/bpawards/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That probably leaves the gold portion around 'icon size' though?

[William the White]

The entire painting is 160cm x 60cm, so a bit bigger. http://www.thepalettepages.com/2014/04/18/bpawards/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That probably leaves the gold portion around 'icon size' though?

And the rose is an artificial rose as well. Is this a flower in his 'home'?

Oh, and i just checked - the red rose was created from a drop of the prophet's perspiration, not a tear... Clearly a warm day in paradise...

[Montreal Wanderer]

The entire painting is 160cm x 60cm, so a bit bigger. http://www.thepalettepages.com/2014/04/18/bpawards/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That probably leaves the gold portion around 'icon size' though?

And the rose is an artificial rose as well. Is this a flower in his 'home'?

Oh, and i just checked - the red rose was created from a drop of the prophet's perspiration, not a tear... Clearly a warm day in paradise...

In Hinduism Vishnu's wife Lakshmi was created from rose petals, while in Greek mythology Aphrodite created the rose (Adonis's blood made the red rose). The Persian myth was that the nightingale was enamored of the white rose that it flew down and impaled itself on the thorns, thus creating the red rose. All this stuff predates the prophet and renders his sweat claim questionable. But who knows - there are many varieties of red rose.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Today I am beyond thrilled to have secured the loan of a drawing by George Grosz to the exhibition I am curating at the law firm I work at.

It's image number 8 in this slideshow.

[Bruce Rioja]

Today I am beyond thrilled to have secured the loan of a drawing by George Grosz to the exhibition I am curating at the law firm I work at.

It's image number 8 in this slideshow.

And which slideshow might this be then?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Today I am beyond thrilled to have secured the loan of a drawing by George Grosz to the exhibition I am curating at the law firm I work at.

It's image number 8 in this slideshow.

And which slideshow might this be then?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/galleries/p01hsnm8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bruce Rioja]

Today I am beyond thrilled to have secured the loan of a drawing by George Grosz to the exhibition I am curating at the law firm I work at.

It's image number 8 in this slideshow.

And which slideshow might this be then?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/galleries/p01hsnm8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's a bit bleak isn't it?

I'll have a good look at them all later. Cheers.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

That's a bit bleak isn't it?

Yes sir - and so are the two first edition Goya 'Disasters of War' etchings I've got too.

War tends to be 'a bit bleak'!