Today I'm angry about.....

[bobo the clown]

The commies ridiculous policy of uni for all who can read comes home to roostShock horror, there's a price and it needs paying

And you're cocking off about what? approximately?

I generally agree with "it's all too easy" - but you haven't managed to convince me yet that you're anything other than part of the yooful problem, that's benefitted from such systems...

... & as we veer back toward the Politics thread we again discuss the issue of the intent of increasing the educational capability of our youth was not achieved by converting junior schools and youth clubs into universities.

Sending far too many people with poor educational bases to study poor subjects and at poor establishments and achieve poor qualifications which no more equip them for quality jobs than if they had not bothered at all.

It was a huge con when it was conceived and is a con now.

[Puskas]

Fully agree with all the above - how dare people without money dream of going to university? Keep these prole scum away. Some of them have even been to (whisper it) comprehensive schools.

Keep universities for those who have attended private schools. OK, some of them may not be able to construct rational arguments - or even think coherently- but they have the right breeding, what?

And let the working classes know their place - a factory job at 14 and death from tuberculosis at 26.

[ratbert]

Sending far too many people with poor educational bases to study poor subjects and at poor establishments and achieve poor qualifications which no more equip them for quality jobs than if they had not bothered at all.

Everyone should have access to further and higher education. It's a right, not a privilege. But then again I don't expect a privately educated Oxbridge governing elite to get that. Maybe Leeds Poly-educated Eric Pickles should have Willetts's job (or is Leeds Poly one of those 'poor establishments'?).

The issue is quality. Driving up quality, starting at the edcuational base, or better career guidance from early on, would make a real difference. And there's still not enough emphasis on vocation in the degree sector. Rationalisation, not a blind swinging of the axe on educational budgets, is what's needed.

[Puskas]

Sending far too many people with poor educational bases to study poor subjects and at poor establishments and achieve poor qualifications which no more equip them for quality jobs than if they had not bothered at all.

Everyone should have access to further and higher education. It's a right, not a privilege. But then again I don't expect a privately educated Oxbridge governing elite to get that. Maybe Leeds Poly-educated Eric Pickles should have Willetts's job (or is Leeds Poly one of those 'poor establishments'?).

The issue is quality. Driving up quality, starting at the edcuational base, or better career guidance from early on, would make a real difference. And there's still not enough emphasis on vocation in the degree sector. Rationalisation, not a blind swinging of the axe on educational budgets, is what's needed.

Nonsense.

Utter nonsense.

What has rationalism got to do with anything?

Blind prejudice and a hatred for anyone without money - that's what should guide this.

[ratbert]

Sending far too many people with poor educational bases to study poor subjects and at poor establishments and achieve poor qualifications which no more equip them for quality jobs than if they had not bothered at all.

Everyone should have access to further and higher education. It's a right, not a privilege. But then again I don't expect a privately educated Oxbridge governing elite to get that. Maybe Leeds Poly-educated Eric Pickles should have Willetts's job (or is Leeds Poly one of those 'poor establishments'?).

The issue is quality. Driving up quality, starting at the edcuational base, or better career guidance from early on, would make a real difference. And there's still not enough emphasis on vocation in the degree sector. Rationalisation, not a blind swinging of the axe on educational budgets, is what's needed.

Nonsense.

Utter nonsense.

What has rationalism got to do with anything?

Blind prejudice and a hatred for anyone without money - that's what should guide this.

You are Dave Spart from Private Eye and I claim my £10 coalition-sponsored education voucher.

[bobo the clown]

Fully agree with all the above - how dare people without money dream of going to university? Keep these prole scum away. Some of them have even been to (whisper it) comprehensive schools.

Keep universities for those who have attended private schools. OK, some of them may not be able to construct rational arguments - or even think coherently- but they have the right breeding, what?

And let the working classes know their place - a factory job at 14 and death from tuberculosis at 26.

Yes, I'll be doing a '4 Yorkshireman' sketch any time soon.

Closure of the Grammars, with all their faults, prevented social mobility and hence it's difficult to do what I did as I scraped my way from the 2 bed council house in Queen St. Pop down there sometime ... mine's the one with the Blue Plaque.

Jealousy and myopic dogma actually contracted the very thing they were trying to expand.

I was so privilaged.

[Puskas]

This is the "angry thread" isn't it?

Not the "let's have a reasonable debate about a complex issue thread"?

So I'm going to post angry, shouty responses on it. If you want a reasoned debate, start a new thread. And wait until Monday - it's Friday, I'm stuck doing mindless, dull tasks I don't want to. I want to go home, watch the world cup, have a beer, sleep, fade out of existence.

But no, sat here until some point this evening.

So pah to you all.

[bobo the clown]

This is the "angry thread" isn't it?

Not the "let's have a reasonable debate about a complex issue thread"?

So pah to you all.

Very fair point & again, I apologise.

You go & vent. It'll do you good.

[hisroyalgingerness]

I don't agree with the right to go to uni thing, someone on question time said that last night as well - that we're a welfare society and so folk should go for free. That doesn't convince me, sorry.

[Hoboh]

Can you do a degree in Tomato plants?

[Gary the Enfield]

Can you do a degree in Tomato plants?

Yes, but if you fall behind in your coursework you have to ketchup in the holidays!!!!!!!



Ya ta ta ta ta ta taaaaaaaaa, tish!

[Prufrock]

I don't agree with the right to go to uni thing, someone on question time said that last night as well - that we're a welfare society and so folk should go for free. That doesn't convince me, sorry.

Why not? Graduates on average earn £150k over their lifetimes more than folk who haven't gone to university. Don't you think that is an option that should be available to everyone? Away from pure economical reasons. Your time as a student is the only time in life you have so much free time dedicated to being able to educate yourself for education's sake. Again, why should that be restricted to the rich?

Don't get me wrong, those who benefit from a university education are going to end up earning more, and if they do they should pay more, but that should come through the form of income tax, not on a massive debt accrued before they even start earning, in order to pay for the mistakes of their elders who themselves benefited from free university education.

[Puskas]

I don't agree with the right to go to uni thing, someone on question time said that last night as well - that we're a welfare society and so folk should go for free. That doesn't convince me, sorry.

Why not? Graduates on average earn £150k per year more than folk who haven't gone to university. Don't you think that is an option that should be available to everyone? Away from pure economical reasons. Your time as a student is the only time in life you have so much free time dedicated to being able to educate yourself for education's sake. Again, why should that be restricted to the rich?

Don't get me wrong, those who benefit from a university education are going to end up earning more, and if they do they should pay more, but that should come through the form of income tax, not on a massive debt accrued before they even start earning, in order to pay for the mistakes of their elders who themselves benefited from free university education.

F*ck me - £150K per year? Really?

I wish I'd gone to university now.

[thebish]

I don't agree with the right to go to uni thing, someone on question time said that last night as well - that we're a welfare society and so folk should go for free. That doesn't convince me, sorry.

Why not? Graduates on average earn £150k per year more than folk who haven't gone to university.

that doesn't sound quite right!

[hisroyalgingerness]

I don't agree with the right to go to uni thing, someone on question time said that last night as well - that we're a welfare society and so folk should go for free. That doesn't convince me, sorry.

Why not? Graduates on average earn £150k per year more than folk who haven't gone to university. Don't you think that is an option that should be available to everyone? Away from pure economical reasons. Your time as a student is the only time in life you have so much free time dedicated to being able to educate yourself for education's sake. Again, why should that be restricted to the rich?

Don't get me wrong, those who benefit from a university education are going to end up earning more, and if they do they should pay more, but that should come through the form of income tax, not on a massive debt accrued before they even start earning, in order to pay for the mistakes of their elders who themselves benefited from free university education.

For me a Welfare society, if indeed that's what we have, should cover the basic requirements. Health, care for the elderly, care for families etc - all basics because folk have to eat and that to live. But do folk physically need university education? If not, should the state pay for it?

[Puskas]

I don't agree with the right to go to uni thing, someone on question time said that last night as well - that we're a welfare society and so folk should go for free. That doesn't convince me, sorry.

Why not? Graduates on average earn £150k per year more than folk who haven't gone to university. Don't you think that is an option that should be available to everyone? Away from pure economical reasons. Your time as a student is the only time in life you have so much free time dedicated to being able to educate yourself for education's sake. Again, why should that be restricted to the rich?

Don't get me wrong, those who benefit from a university education are going to end up earning more, and if they do they should pay more, but that should come through the form of income tax, not on a massive debt accrued before they even start earning, in order to pay for the mistakes of their elders who themselves benefited from free university education.

For me a Welfare society, if indeed that's what we have, should cover the basic requirements. Health, care for the elderly, care for families etc - all basics because folk have to eat and that to live. But do folk physically need university education? If not, should the state pay for it?

Or, further, why do folk need any sort of education at all?

All in all, it's just another brick in the wall. I reckon. And so does my mate, Rog.

[TANGODANCER]

Don't get me wrong, those who benefit from a university education are going to end up earning more, and if they do they should pay more, but that should come through the form of income tax, not on a massive debt accrued before they even start earning, in order to pay for the mistakes of their elders who themselves benefited from free university education.

What a pink-cloud world you live in Pru. Let's make that "some of" hey? Some will drop out, some will just twaddle their way through four years or so and then fail everything. And lots of those same "elders" usually worked their bollocks off in factories, mills and mundane jobs and didn't have the choice of mistakes, being more concerned with putting a meal on the table for their family. Thank God, times have moved on from those days, but if you want to know who really fxxked it all up, look to your modern day bankers, politicians and entrepeneurs, probably university grads all. I never heard of a joiner or plumber being responsible for much except maybe a few cowboy jobs on your homes.

[Prufrock]

Don't get me wrong, those who benefit from a university education are going to end up earning more, and if they do they should pay more, but that should come through the form of income tax, not on a massive debt accrued before they even start earning, in order to pay for the mistakes of their elders who themselves benefited from free university education.

What a pink-cloud world you live in Pru. Let's make that "some of" hey? Some will drop out, some will just twaddle their way through four years or so and then fail everything. And lots of those same "elders" usually worked their bollocks off in factories, mills and mundane jobs and didn't have the choice of mistakes, being more concerned with putting a meal on the table for their family. Thank God, times have moved on from those days, but if you want to know who really fxxked it all up, look to your modern day bankers, politicians and entrepeneurs, probably university grads all. I never heard of a joiner or plumber being responsible for much except maybe a few cowboy jobs on your homes.

No, I was right first time. I meant it is the fault of every single person ever before me.

[Prufrock]

I don't agree with the right to go to uni thing, someone on question time said that last night as well - that we're a welfare society and so folk should go for free. That doesn't convince me, sorry.

Why not? Graduates on average earn £150k per year more than folk who haven't gone to university.

that doesn't sound quite right!

Pfft I never said that! Check for yourselves.

It's a conspiracy.

[thebish]

I don't agree with the right to go to uni thing, someone on question time said that last night as well - that we're a welfare society and so folk should go for free. That doesn't convince me, sorry.

Why not? Graduates on average earn £150k per year more than folk who haven't gone to university.

that doesn't sound quite right!

Pfft I never said that! Check for yourselves.

It's a conspiracy.

ahh - that's me done like a kipper by a cheeky puskas!