The Great Art Debate

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

pecause people often pay a lot of money to own famous things...

winston churchill's hat is "just a hat" and you could buy a similar hat off ebay for pennies... but the actual one that belonged to winston is a famous hat - so someone would pay a lot of money for it.

Emin's unmade bed is famous - same thing applies.

Really? Well thanks for insulting my intelligence, but I was hoping for something a little more than "because it is", that's why I addressed the query at Mummy. I wanted him to say possibly that the art experts, agents and maybe even good old Tracey herself, get together and play think of a number they can get out of some silly sod with money to burn. Not for something of value or real historical interest, but for an old M.F.I bed with a pile of dirty sheets on it. The real art is surely in conning the public, is it not? That's what I was asking our resident man in the middle.

Well I hope my post and that podcast did that for you - the bed is a cultural signpost precisely because people feel strongly enough to accuse her of conning the public.

[thebish]

pecause people often pay a lot of money to own famous things...

winston churchill's hat is "just a hat" and you could buy a similar hat off ebay for pennies... but the actual one that belonged to winston is a famous hat - so someone would pay a lot of money for it.

Emin's unmade bed is famous - same thing applies.

Really? Well thanks for insulting my intelligence, but I was hoping for something a little more than "because it is", that's why I addressed the query at Mummy. I wanted him to say possibly that the art experts, agents and maybe even good old Tracey herself, get together and play think of a number they can get out of some silly sod with money to burn. Not for something of value or real historical interest, but for an old M.F.I bed with a pile of dirty sheets on it. The real art is surely in conning the public, is it not? That's what I was asking our resident man in the middle.

It's your repeated accusation about Emin. It doesn't stand up. She isn't conning anyone. She is producing works of art that interrogate her closest subject. Herself. She isn't trying to fool or trick. These are things that are crucial to her art. You don't have to like it. You don't have to respect it. But it is not a con trick by the artist.

It offends your taste, that's all. You are entitled to be offended, outraged, disgusted etc. But I don't feel you can describe her as a confidence trickster unless motivated by prejudice.

I've never seen My Bed - though I would like to. I'm not sure what my response would be. I suspect I'd like it, possibly very much. That would be because in some way it resonated with me, made me think, made me feel. Even if I hated it and rejected it though I don't think I'd feel 'conned'.

truth is, Will - you're just more gullible than Tango - easily conned - you're a pushover!

[Worthy4England]

The good news is, there's little chance of Emin being upstaged at the forthcoming Saatchi Gallery Auction.



This is one of Karla Black's better works.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The good news is, there's little chance of Emin being upstaged at the forthcoming Saatchi Gallery Auction.



This is one of Karla Black's better works.

What's that one called, "Putin's tanks flattened my bed"?

[TANGODANCER]

The good news is, there's little chance of Emin being upstaged at the forthcoming Saatchi Gallery Auction.



This is one of Karla Black's better works.

Tracey's hit back right off with........http://tinyurl.com/nctj4z9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[thebish]

The good news is, there's little chance of Emin being upstaged at the forthcoming Saatchi Gallery Auction.



This is one of Karla Black's better works.

Tracey's hit back right off with........http://tinyurl.com/nctj4z9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

for someone who said only yesterday: "I'm happy to accept I can't accept her as any form of artist, but that's just me, so best thing is for me to just ignore her...."

you sure do seek her out!

[TANGODANCER]

The good news is, there's little chance of Emin being upstaged at the forthcoming Saatchi Gallery Auction.



This is one of Karla Black's better works.

Tracey's hit back right off with........http://tinyurl.com/nctj4z9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

for someone who said only yesterday: "I'm happy to accept I can't accept her as any form of artist, but that's just me, so best thing is for me to just ignore her...."

you sure do seek her out!

Almost as much as you seek me out? Maybe not quite,

[William the White]

I have a friend who says this Tate Britain exhibition is the best thing she has seen for years. It's also getting critical raves.

I'm hoping to catch it in July.

http://www.tate.org.uk/context-comment/ ... ida-barlow" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bruce Rioja]

I have a friend who says this Tate Britain exhibition is the best thing she has seen for years. It's also getting critical raves.

I'm hoping to catch it in July.

http://www.tate.org.uk/context-comment/ ... ida-barlow" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your friend wants to get out more often then. It's just a pile of old firewood.

[William the White]

Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/ ... eview.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign ... -interview" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The public (Trip Advisor)

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserRe ... gland.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FT

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/805f5f5c-b989 ... z336dkZyQG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bruce Rioja]

And? If people want to fish themselves in then that's their business. Good luck to 'em.

[William the White]

And? If people want to fish themselves in then that's their business. Good luck to 'em.

Don't think I quite understand this. But hey-ho.

The critics offer an intelligent perspective on the work, and are by no means unanimous. I'll understand perfectly if you aren't interested in what they have to say.

[Bruce Rioja]

And? If people want to fish themselves in then that's their business. Good luck to 'em.

Don't think I quite understand this. But hey-ho.

The critics offer an intelligent perspective on the work, and are by no means unanimous. I'll understand perfectly if you aren't interested in what they have to say.

To be honest, it is something that I'd have to go and see for myself in order to form an honest opinion, but I do think that my starting position would be one of me taking 'a bit of a dim view'.

[bobo the clown]

If there's a more soulless "space" in the whole Universe than the Tate Modern I've yet to find it.

[thebish]

If there's a more soulless "space" in the whole Universe than the Tate Modern I've yet to find it.

the Emirates?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

If there's a more soulless "space" in the whole Universe than the Tate Modern I've yet to find it.

the Emirates?

[William the White]

If there's a more soulless "space" in the whole Universe than the Tate Modern I've yet to find it.

Yep. That entrance is on of the least welcoming to a place of creativity and imagination that I know.

But the Phyllida Barlow exhibition is at Tate Britain. (And free!).

[Gary the Enfield]

If there's a more soulless "space" in the whole Universe than the Tate Modern I've yet to find it.

Yep. That entrance is on of the least welcoming to a place of creativity and imagination that I know.
But the Phyllida Barlow exhibition is at Tate Britain. (And free!).

I kind of think that's the point. That something so mundane and ordinary gives forth into this wonderful expanse that houses so many intricate and massive delights. I quite like Tate Modern. I'd rather that than see the building flattened and another umpteen faceless, overpriced 'apartments' vomited on the banks of the Thames.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

If there's a more soulless "space" in the whole Universe than the Tate Modern I've yet to find it.

Yep. That entrance is on of the least welcoming to a place of creativity and imagination that I know.
But the Phyllida Barlow exhibition is at Tate Britain. (And free!).

I kind of think that's the point. That something so mundane and ordinary gives forth into this wonderful expanse that houses so many intricate and massive delights. I quite like Tate Modern. I'd rather that than see the building flattened and another umpteen faceless, overpriced 'apartments' vomited on the banks of the Thames.

There's nothing mundane and ordinary about - it's a huge, rare, industrial cathedral.

Given how tough it is for our young artists to find space to work and exhibit in Zone 1-3 these days, unlike in the YBA era, it seems positively offensive to have a big, hulking, public space so empty and under-utilised.

[Gary the Enfield]

If there's a more soulless "space" in the whole Universe than the Tate Modern I've yet to find it.

Yep. That entrance is on of the least welcoming to a place of creativity and imagination that I know.
But the Phyllida Barlow exhibition is at Tate Britain. (And free!).

I kind of think that's the point. That something so mundane and ordinary gives forth into this wonderful expanse that houses so many intricate and massive delights. I quite like Tate Modern. I'd rather that than see the building flattened and another umpteen faceless, overpriced 'apartments' vomited on the banks of the Thames.

There's nothing mundane and ordinary about - it's a huge, rare, industrial cathedral.
Given how tough it is for our young artists to find space to work and exhibit in Zone 1-3 these days, unlike in the YBA era, it seems positively offensive to have a big, hulking, public space so empty and under-utilised.

I was referring to the entrance though......