The Politics Thread

[thebish]

I see Georgie Osborne is scurrying from radio station to TV station and back again to eagerly claim credit for the UK economy growth figures for July-September despite the fact that they didn't really pull any of the economic levers until this month when they announced the spending review... in one interview he got so excited he appeared to be claiming credit for the previous quarter too...

everyone who knows anuthing at all about economics knows that growth figures lag policy announcements and implementation.....

Not so sure that you'd be applying the same rationale had the figure been negative for Q3 though, eh Bish?

I will not associate the current govt with quarterly figures until march 2011

[thebish]

I see Georgie Osborne is scurrying from radio station to TV station and back again to eagerly claim credit for the UK economy growth figures for July-September despite the fact that they didn't really pull any of the economic levers until this month when they announced the spending review... in one interview he got so excited he appeared to be claiming credit for the previous quarter too...

everyone who knows anuthing at all about economics knows that growth figures lag policy announcements and implementation.....

Ahhhhhhh, the classic discussion point about macroeconomic policy in A Level economics! All just come flooding back in that one line.

I think Georgie missed that class - in fact - he missed all classes on economics altogether and wrote PMQ "jokes" for little willy hague instead...

He's just lucky Johnson hasn't got up to that chapter yet in his text book otherwise he'd have jumped right on it.

but it mustn't have escaped your notice that the chancellor of the exchequor is George Osborne - not Alan Johnson, however you might want it to be. what Johnson thinks or knows is totally irrelevant - Georgey is in the hot seat.

[Prufrock]

The economy is an abstract concept?



This country currently pays £120million a day in interest on its debt. That's not abstract is it?


As for Osborne - his dad has given him a big gift of the family business during his lifetime. Is it really that outrageous for parents to pass on the fruits of their success to their kids? I hope I can do it one day, put it that way.

What does that mean though. Those figures mean nothing to your factory worker, even your middle managment guy, Who pays £120 million? To whom? As a nation, a people, we've elected a group to take the feck up that was the end of New Labour, and 'save the economy'. That's the, very questionably, genourously named, mandate with which they have to govern. Save the economy. Which means jobs, services, and benefits. All of which have gone. It isn't party political, they're all a bunch of shithouses. We're all in this together, until it costs the rich a penny. Then they're emigrating.

As you say, as for George Osbourne... There is a reason for inheritance tax. Families take advantage of our welfare state, our health care system, rich and poor, as we all do and should do. When one dies, a percentage goes back to the state towards that cost. George Osbourne stood on a public platform, as chancellor of our own exchequer, and claimed we are all in it together. His familly are worth £4.5million. His trust fund saves him £1.6million on inheritance tax. Is it outrageous for parents to pass on the fruits of their success? No. Is it outrageous for the chancellor, whilst delivering massive cuts, to perform legal tax evasion? Feck no.

Let's not sugar the pill, it's legal tax evasion. From a chancellor. During massive 'cuts'. Silent 'n'.

Can every gift a parent gives their child during their lifetime (and seven years before they die) be called 'legal tax evasion'? If a rich person chose not to spend their all their wealth and pay the associated VAT, would you call that 'legal tax evasion' too, or regard it as a legitimate choice?

As for what those figures mean... presumably you know that the Treasury can borrow by selling its debt to anyone, be it a private individual or a government - it's not that difficult to get your head around the idea that the Treasury pays interest on this debt to those people/institutions too.

My point isn't about what we should or shouldn't do, I don't know, I am not even nearly an economist, it's about what was said to the electorate. It's the rhetoric of we are all in this together, that we must, and will all make sacrifices together. They (almost) got a mandate on those lines, yet the chancellor is making a speech about how jobs will be cut, and public services hit, and afterwards he sits down grinning next to Cameron and gets a pat on the back. It's the same bloke saying there are tough times for us all whilst he has his inheritance ring-fenced. On Osbourne and the 'tax evasion' scheme, the reason it grates is because the fact his parents are so wealthy is what allows them to save even more money. They can ring fence that money in a trust fund because they are wealthy enough not to need it as disposable in the first place. I wouldn't even call it immoral in itself, though I do think it goes against the spirit and the intention of the inheritance tax laws, and I think that is unacceptable as a chancellor.

[jimbo]

I see Georgie Osborne is scurrying from radio station to TV station and back again to eagerly claim credit for the UK economy growth figures for July-September despite the fact that they didn't really pull any of the economic levers until this month when they announced the spending review... in one interview he got so excited he appeared to be claiming credit for the previous quarter too...

everyone who knows anuthing at all about economics knows that growth figures lag policy announcements and implementation.....

Ahhhhhhh, the classic discussion point about macroeconomic policy in A Level economics! All just come flooding back in that one line.

I think Georgie missed that class - in fact - he missed all classes on economics altogether and wrote PMQ "jokes" for little willy hague instead...

He's just lucky Johnson hasn't got up to that chapter yet in his text book otherwise he'd have jumped right on it.

but it mustn't have escaped your notice that the chancellor of the exchequor is George Osborne - not Alan Johnson, however you might want it to be. what Johnson thinks or knows is totally irrelevant - Georgey is in the hot seat.

But if the next viable alternative is still learning economics by numbers.............................

[thebish]

is it not slightly bizarre that the tories are a few months into power and you seem absurdly interested in someone who is NOT making any significant decisions and may never be chancellor? surely the key man is osborne - the one who is actually in charge?

[Lord Kangana]

"In charge" is a bit strong bish.

Perhaps "Banking sectors stooge" is more appropriate.

[ratbert]

Osborne's economics qualifications aren't much different from Johnson's, unless you go with the 'birthright' argument some aged shire Tories probably still peddle.

[thebish]

Osborne's economics qualifications aren't much different from Johnson's, unless you go with the 'birthright' argument some aged shire Tories probably still peddle.

Indeed - but Osborne is ACTUALLY the chancellor - Johnson isn't.

[superjohnmcginlay]

and another thing...

In last Wednesday’s speech the Chancellor claimed that welfare fraud is responsible for cheating tax payers out of £5 billion a year. However, a Department of Work and Pensions report published last week stated that welfare fraud accounts for £1 billion of money lost, with tax credit fraud accounting for an additional £0.6 billion, leading to £1.6 billion lost in total.


so - why exaggerate welfare fraud so massively? hmmmmm....

It's all in the detail. The actual claim is that approx £5bn is lost to fraud and error.

[William the White]

and another thing...

In last Wednesday’s speech the Chancellor claimed that welfare fraud is responsible for cheating tax payers out of £5 billion a year. However, a Department of Work and Pensions report published last week stated that welfare fraud accounts for £1 billion of money lost, with tax credit fraud accounting for an additional £0.6 billion, leading to £1.6 billion lost in total.


so - why exaggerate welfare fraud so massively? hmmmmm....

It's all in the detail. The actual claim is that approx £5bn is lost to fraud and error.

Ah - of which £1billion is fraud, 4 error?

Neat - not hard to guess which made the headline.

[superjohnmcginlay]

Well 1.6/3.4(maybe 3.6 I think the figure is 5.2bn) but yeah.

Politicians in bending the truth to suit shocker!

[Hoboh]

On your knees before your mistress





Harman apology over 'ginger rodent'



Deputy Labour leader Harriet Harman hit out at political rivals
Labour's deputy leader Harriet Harman has been forced to apologise for branding a senior coalition minister a "ginger rodent".

Mrs Harman admitted she had been "wrong" to use the description about Liberal Democrat Chief Treasury Secretary Danny Alexander in a speech.

A statement issued by Labour said: "Harriet Harman has today apologised for her comment about Danny Alexander and says it was wrong."

The jibe was the most personal of a number aimed at political opponents in Mrs Harman's address to the Scottish Labour Party conference in Oban.

"Many of us in the Labour Party are conservationists and we all love the red squirrel," she said. "But there's one ginger rodent we never want to see in the highlands of Scotland - Danny Alexander."

Mrs Harman also dismissed another Lib Dem minister, Scottish Secretary Michael Moore as "the invisible man", and said she wanted to make the SNP's Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond and his deputy Nicola Sturgeon "endangered species".

The joke about Mr Alexander, the flame-haired MP for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, was greeted with laughter in the hall. However, it quickly backfired as Mrs Harman found herself accused of insulting all Scotland's redheads.

George Lyon, Scottish Liberal Democrat election chair, said: "There is no depths to which the Labour Party will not stoop. They aren't fit to be in opposition, let alone in government."

The SNP also hit out at the Labour deputy leader over her "childish abuse" of Mr Alexander.

Nationalist MSP Shirley-Anne Somerville claimed the high proportion of redheads in Scotland meant Ms Harman's "silly remark isn't anti-Danny or anti-Lib Dem, it's anti-Scottish".

[thebish]

oh how hoboh dreams of feeling the lash of Harriet's tongue...

[William the White]

oh how hoboh dreams of feeling the lash of Harriet's tongue...

Yep. You can sense the yearning as he stalks her, the cruel, cruel nanny.

[hisroyalgingerness]

Former equalities minister Harriet Har-person making ginger-ist comments eh. Not gonna win her many votes in Scotland is it?

[thebish]

Former equalities minister Harriet Har-person making ginger-ist comments eh. Not gonna win her many votes in Scotland is it?

I don't think she's standing for election as anything in scotland, is she?

[hisroyalgingerness]

She's trying to persuade the Scottish voters in the national elections to (bore off) vote Labour and not Tories and not Lib Dems

[thebish]

She's trying to persuade the Scottish voters in the national elections to (bore off) vote Labour and not Tories and not Lib Dems

I think it's more likely she's trying to persuade them not to vote Scot Nat... and you're right, not a great way to go about it...

[William the White]

She's trying to persuade the Scottish voters in the national elections to (bore off) vote Labour and not Tories and not Lib Dems

Did you feel hurt personally?

[a1]

she could have just called him a bigot like they normally do, insteada trying to come up with wierd analogies.