The Great Art Debate

Hoboh · Post by **Hoboh** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:53 pm

Prufrock wrote:
mummywhycantieatcrayons wrote:
mummywhycantieatcrayons wrote:
Prufrock wrote: Are we bothering then?
Don't think I'll make it tomorrow now, but yeah, let's have a wander down sometime.
Also, you'll have to get me into UCL to see the Flaxman gallery.
Fair enough, gimme a shout when you are about then. As for the Flaxman, I'll have an ask. It's inside the library bit which you need an ID card to get into, but I'm sure there must be a way of signing in visitors.

Don't be so innocent Pru!!!!

You only need to swipe once, stuff him in a suitcase till you clear the desk jocks!!!

TANGODANCER · Post by **TANGODANCER** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:59 pm

The V & A exhibition looks phenomenal. A place to wander around on your own though in my view. Bet it'll be crowded out for a while.

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:15 pm

had some time to kill in Birmigham yesterday - so went into the Museum & Art Gallery

I specifically went in to doff my cap to Ford Maddox Brown's "Last of England" which I have always liked

and the Beata Beatrix - started by Rosetti and completed by Maddox Brown..

but I popped across the road to the waterhall modern art exhibition and saw something that would certainly impress Tango...

(Shane Waltener)

apparently it is participatory art - you can go and add a bit yourself...

jaffka · Post by **jaffka** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:16 pm

like remove it

William the White · Post by **William the White** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:35 pm

Liked ll three of those, bish, but not any more than that.

The Last of England seems like a pose organised to get a predictable emotional response, and didn't truly work for me, even though i want it to...

The Rosetti/Maddox Brown would be excellent on a chocolate box...

And, obviously, it's not posible to judge a participatory piece without participating. Looked rubbish to me. What was your response to it?

I could guess what Tango would like to add... A well placed bunsen burner?

TANGODANCER · Post by **TANGODANCER** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:49 pm

Ah, now I'm admitting I need some art education here. In my ignorance, all I see is a collection of ropes, strings, maybe chains made from flex, rags, a couple of pickaxe handles and maybe auntie Maude's woollen hat, Oh, and some big washer type things threaded on a dressing gown cord. all festooned across a room like a load of chimps have invaded a wool factory. Now I know it all has deeper meaning, but it just eludes me right now. Maybe if I study it for a while...........nope, inspiration isn't coming. I'm not getting that 'moved' feeling at all. I need help. Or maybe the 'artist' does.

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:52 pm

William the White wrote:Liked ll three of those, bish, but not any more than that.

The Last of England seems like a pose organised to get a predictable emotional response, and didn't truly work for me, even though i want it to...

The Rosetti/Maddox Brown would be excellent on a chocolate box...

And, obviously, it's not posible to judge a participatory piece without participating. Looked rubbish to me. What was your response to it?

I could guess what Tango would like to add... A well placed bunsen burner?

me too - they fall into my "decorative" category - rather than my very small "being moved" category... In the Brum Gallery - the "Last of England" is the only painting properly lit - as if they know that it is the only interesting one there...

according to the blurb by the painting - maddox brown made them posen outside in the winter in order to get the light right and mimic the harsh conditions of a sea crossing... his hands turnd blue and his models were less than pleased...

as for the wool - my first thought was that I wished I'd brought Tango with me - my second was that a pair of kittens might have got in.. my third was that it compared with the rest of the exhibits it was pretty darned good!! (some mugs on a shelf... a row of badly made wooden things... some broken pottery...) It was supposed to be summat to do with The Slow Movement.. "a reaction to our fast-paced consumer culture". It calls for more local production, valuing where things come from, and creating communities and a sense of belonging through being part of a shared activity. We think that the crafts have always done this. In this exhibition you can see how makers from different countries show in their work and making processes, the value of taking time.

I think it is only pre-arranged groups that can participate - there was a burly looking guard standing watch over it - so I hastily put my scissors away!!

Worthy4England · Post by **Worthy4England** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:37 am

Sorry Bish - need to do better.

The last one, my 7 year old son does with Knex.

The first one looks like when we used to stick a ruler in our tie to pretend to be a WWII flying ace and

The one in the midddle has bigger hands than Peter Schmeichal.

Next.

William the White · Post by **William the White** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:40 am

TANGODANCER wrote:

Ah, now I'm admitting I need some art education here. In my ignorance, all I see is a collection of ropes, strings, maybe chains made from flex, rags, a couple of pickaxe handles and maybe auntie Maude's woollen hat, Oh, and some big washer type things threaded on a dressing gown cord. all festooned across a room like a load of chimps have invaded a wool factory. Now I know it all has deeper meaning, but it just eludes me right now. Maybe if I study it for a while...........nope, inspiration isn't coming. I'm not getting that 'moved' feeling at all. I need help. Or maybe the 'artist' does.

Obviously, Tango, to give it a chance you need to 'particpate' - and slowly - given the bish's explanation... I think you might find an entirely new perspective... a skeen of wool of whitest white, another of darkest blue... It might change your entire perspective on modern art...

Worthy4England · Post by **Worthy4England** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:57 am

I'm a little lost as to "give it a chance" WtW.

Surely if you look into a pile of shite, you might, in some sort of light from the East see a Tooth Fairy and think all is good with the world.

It's a bag o shite, constructed by some fecking muppet on a Art grant.

William the White · Post by **William the White** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:05 am

Worthy4England wrote:I'm a little lost as to "give it a chance" WtW.

Surely if you look into a pile of shite, you might, in some sort of light from the East see a Tooth Fairy and think all is good with the world.

It's a bag o shite, constructed by some fecking muppet on a Art grant.

Should perhaps have put a

in there...

If you scroll up and see my previous posts you might see a less ironic post - which was, of course, intended to assist Tango's education...

Worthy4England · Post by **Worthy4England** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:15 am

William the White wrote:
Worthy4England wrote:I'm a little lost as to "give it a chance" WtW.

Surely if you look into a pile of shite, you might, in some sort of light from the East see a Tooth Fairy and think all is good with the world.

It's a bag o shite, constructed by some fecking muppet on a Art grant.
Should perhaps have put a in there...

If you scroll up and see my previous posts you might see a less ironic post - which was, of course, intended to assist Tango's education...

I'm just a no-hoper WtW, I see your comments now.

If I've got to give something "a chance", then they've missed the point for me. I'm not going to sit there and think "what's going on in the mind of the deluded asshole who's put it together"

Oh and I might be a bit pissed.

TANGODANCER · Post by **TANGODANCER** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:55 pm

Of the two that actually class as art:

The first needs snowflakes falling and a robin to make a Victorian Christmas card. It wouldn't take up much viewing time.

The second, the Pre-Rapaelite offering I can see as a gentle, whimsical, meditational flight of fancy without the need to look further.

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:40 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:Of the two that actually class as art:

The first needs snowflakes falling and a robin to make a Victorian Christmas card. It wouldn't take up much viewing time.

The second, the Pre-Rapaelite offering I can see as a gentle, whimsical, meditational flight of fancy without the need to look further.

and I don't think anyone on here IS looking any further - are they?

TANGODANCER · Post by **TANGODANCER** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:19 pm

thebish wrote:
TANGODANCER wrote:Of the two that actually class as art:

The first needs snowflakes falling and a robin to make a Victorian Christmas card. It wouldn't take up much viewing time.

The second, the Pre-Rapaelite offering I can see as a gentle, whimsical, meditational flight of fancy without the need to look further.
and I don't think anyone on here IS looking any further - are they?

Not fully understanding everyone's views of great art, I really wouldn't have a clue bish.

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:23 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
thebish wrote:
TANGODANCER wrote:Of the two that actually class as art:

The first needs snowflakes falling and a robin to make a Victorian Christmas card. It wouldn't take up much viewing time.

The second, the Pre-Rapaelite offering I can see as a gentle, whimsical, meditational flight of fancy without the need to look further.
and I don't think anyone on here IS looking any further - are they?
Not fully understanding everyone's views of great art, I really wouldn't have a clue bish.

well - I said the first two classed as (merely) decorative - and WtW said he liked them but wasn't overwhelmed (but we already know he isn't a huge PreRaphaelite fan) and Worthy didn't really like any of them...

so - nobody seems to be "looking further"

CAPSLOCK · Post by **CAPSLOCK** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:37 pm

Looks like shes getting hot rodded up the back door

Worthy4England · Post by **Worthy4England** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:48 pm

Ok, having looked a little further.

I give you

a Turner

and a Wright

Lord Kangana · Post by **Lord Kangana** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:52 pm

I saw an exhibition of Wright's stuff in Edinburgh a few yeras back. I like the technique, but when we start talking about being moved, I'm more of the opinion that its "artisan" rather than "art". Ie it displays a mastery of his chosen field, is technically precise and proficient. But it elicits no emotional response from me at all, other than "ee, he were reet good at painting".

TANGODANCER · Post by **TANGODANCER** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:55 pm

thebish wrote:
TANGODANCER wrote:
thebish wrote:
TANGODANCER wrote:Of the two that actually class as art:

The first needs snowflakes falling and a robin to make a Victorian Christmas card. It wouldn't take up much viewing time.

The second, the Pre-Rapaelite offering I can see as a gentle, whimsical, meditational flight of fancy without the need to look further.
and I don't think anyone on here IS looking any further - are they?
Not fully understanding everyone's views of great art, I really wouldn't have a clue bish.
well - I said the first two classed as (merely) decorative - and WtW said he liked them but wasn't overwhelmed (but we already know he isn't a huge PreRaphaelite fan) and Worthy didn't really like any of them...

so - nobody seems to be "looking further"

So what issue? I wrote: "I can see as a gentle, whimsical, meditational flight of fancy without the need to look further", just expressing my own view. I didn't mention anyone else. Their views are their own. Not sure why it's even worth comment?

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