The athletics/running thread

[Harry Genshaw]

christ on a bike, the poor chap.

The Harrock hill series, which starts at the end of this month, has a section where you run through a cattle field. Unlike this case, the leaders are usually ok, it's those of us in the back half that get harassed by em due to them being pretty spooked by the time I trundle up. There's nowt like a good stampede to help you get a pb!

I was going to recommend this race to you LE as a good introduction to fell running. Not sure now though

[LeverEnd]

Only kidding. I'll do it. See you at the Chorley race on Wednesday as well.
Helped out at the track and field match at Bolton yesterday, got me itching to run on the track again after 3 years off it. First track race 3000m at Stretford in 3 weeks.

[Prufrock]

Jesus wept! Poor guy.

Another fun lawyer fact, after reading the bit where the organisers saw 'he signed a form': those forms places sometimes get you to sign saying something like you accept all the risks if it goes wrong to you and your belongings are meaningless when it comes to personal injury or death caused by negligence.

[LeverEnd]

Jesus wept! Poor guy.

Another fun lawyer fact, after reading the bit where the organisers saw 'he signed a form': those forms places sometimes get you to sign saying something like you accept all the risks if it goes wrong to you and your belongings are meaningless when it comes to personal injury or death caused by negligence.

I'm sure, but in this case it's just one of those things. I'd like to think the injured guy will take it as such. I think people who hurtle down the side of a hill at daft speeds accept a certain level of risk. Hope he makes a quick recovery.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Jesus wept! Poor guy.

Another fun lawyer fact, after reading the bit where the organisers saw 'he signed a form': those forms places sometimes get you to sign saying something like you accept all the risks if it goes wrong to you and your belongings are meaningless when it comes to personal injury or death caused by negligence.

Any negligence will be on the side of the farmer, not the race organiser if it followed public footpaths. If it went over private land, however...
But as Lever End says, one would expect most fell runners to accept a bull attack as an unfortunate incident.

[Prufrock]

No idea about the specifics of this case. Perfectly possible that no-one was negligent and this is just an unfortunate accident. Just pointing out that these 'I agree not to sue you if I get injured' forms are worthless (well, legally they are, I wonder how many people who were entitled to compensation have lost out because they thought they'd signed away their rights!)

Not sure about your assertion about the race owners btw. I'd imagine they'd owe a duty of care.

Anyway. Played football on Saturday for the first time in 2 months. Done no exercise at all in that time apart from half an hour in the gym on Thursday. Was only supposed to play a half but our keeper ruptured his achilles (ouch!) and we had no more subs. Wow I'm unfit!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

No idea about the specifics of this case. Perfectly possible that no-one was negligent and this is just an unfortunate accident. Just pointing out that these 'I agree not to sue you if I get injured' forms are worthless (well, legally they are, I wonder how many people who were entitled to compensation have lost out because they thought they'd signed away their rights!)

Not sure about your assertion about the race owners btw. I'd imagine they'd owe a duty of care.

Anyway. Played football on Saturday for the first time in 2 months. Done no exercise at all in that time apart from half an hour in the gym on Thursday. Was only supposed to play a half but our keeper ruptured his achilles (ouch!) and we had no more subs. Wow I'm unfit!

You're right, the race organisers do owe a duty of care, but in regard to the state of the footpath, not for any livestock that are in fields: livestock in fields are the responsibilty of the farmer that places them there especially when a right of way traverses said field - Relevant act is Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 subsection 2 and part III subsection 59 Prohibition on keeping bulls on land crossed by public rights of way.

[Prufrock]

It's not either/or though. No doubt the farmer owes a duty as well (though that statute you've quoted appears to relate to criminal liability, the farmer would also owe a duty of care to anyone who might foreseeably cross his field) but the race organisers would owe a duty to eliminate or warn of any foreseeable harm. If you're having a race across a field full of cattle then it might be foreseeable that they might charge (or if you'd done the same race for 30 years with no problems maybe it wouldn't). If race organisers planned a route that crossed a railway line, then maintaining that the path was in tip-top condition wouldn't get them out if it if someone got hit by a train!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

It's not either/or though. No doubt the farmer owes a duty as well (though that statute you've quoted appears to relate to criminal liability, the farmer would also owe a duty of care to anyone who might foreseeably cross his field) but the race organisers would owe a duty to eliminate or warn of any foreseeable harm. If you're having a race across a field full of cattle then it might be foreseeable that they might charge (or if you'd done the same race for 30 years with no problems maybe it wouldn't). If race organisers planned a route that crossed a railway line, then maintaining that the path was in tip-top condition wouldn't get them out if it if someone got hit by a train!

Yes but, the bloke was trampled by a bull, which is specifically covered by the legislation - If the bull was older than ten months, the responsibilty is clearly there that the bull should not have been there, IF the race was on a public right of way. In that case the negligence would be clearly on the farmer's part. Wouldn't it? Criminal liabilty trumping the civil liabilty (or have I been misinformed - you know what bar-room lawyers are like)? [I'm not arguing against what you're saying, I'm just asking]

[Gary the Enfield]

Tonight I have a choice of two races:

1: Every year our club organises a track mile race. Does exactly what it says on the tin. Last year I got round in 5m 47secs.

2. Tonight is also the start of the open water aquathlon series at Lea Valley. 500m swim and 5.5k run

I've been looking forward to both these races and had not, up to last weekend, decided which to do. I have now had that decision taken from me as I have some sort of tendonopathy in my right Achilles and it's bloody sore walking down stairs let alone trying to run.

[Prufrock]

It's not either/or though. No doubt the farmer owes a duty as well (though that statute you've quoted appears to relate to criminal liability, the farmer would also owe a duty of care to anyone who might foreseeably cross his field) but the race organisers would owe a duty to eliminate or warn of any foreseeable harm. If you're having a race across a field full of cattle then it might be foreseeable that they might charge (or if you'd done the same race for 30 years with no problems maybe it wouldn't). If race organisers planned a route that crossed a railway line, then maintaining that the path was in tip-top condition wouldn't get them out if it if someone got hit by a train!

Yes but, the bloke was trampled by a bull, which is specifically covered by the legislation - If the bull was older than ten months, the responsibilty is clearly there that the bull should not have been there, IF the race was on a public right of way. In that case the negligence would be clearly on the farmer's part. Wouldn't it? Criminal liabilty trumping the civil liabilty (or have I been misinformed - you know what bar-room lawyers are like)? [I'm not arguing against what you're saying, I'm just asking]

It's not about one trumping the other, they cover different things and work side by side.

So, criminally: Assuming it is a public right of way etc. the bull shouldn't have been there regardless so we have criminal liability for the farmer, and not the organisers (and would have even if nobody had been injured). Fine paid by the farmer, to the State.

Civilly: we have the issues around negligence both generally, and under any statutory additions. So in terms of compensation to the runner, the farmer could be liable under both general negligence, and/or under Occupiers Liability Act(s). Race organisers could be liable under general negligence (and possibly Occupiers Liability too, can't remember what you needed to do to be an 'Occupier' but think it's unlikely they were). It may be that the land being a public right of way, and the existence of this Act about keeping bulls, means in fact the race-organisers couldn't have foreseen this and so wouldn't be liable, but it would be case-specific and not as simple as simply saying the farmer is liable not the organisers.

Those all work side-by-side so you could have a case where say, the organisers knew there was a dangerous bull running about, as did the farmer and so: the farmer is guilty criminally of having a bull where he shouldn't. The farmer is liable for causing the runners injuries under both the Occupiers Liability Act(s) and negligence, and the race-organisers are liable for causing the injuries under negligence. The runner could only get compensation once, but he could choose who, and how to sue for it.

I didn't want to turn this into one of those digressions, honest! I only wanted to post a fun fact !

[Prufrock]

Tonight I have a choice of two races:

1: Every year our club organises a track mile race. Does exactly what it says on the tin. Last year I got round in 5m 47secs.

2. Tonight is also the start of the open water aquathlon series at Lea Valley. 500m swim and 5.5k run

I've been looking forward to both these races and had not, up to last weekend, decided which to do. I have now had that decision taken from me as I have some sort of tendonopathy in my right Achilles and it's bloody sore walking down stairs let alone trying to run.

That sucks. How long does that keep you out for? As mentioned above, our keeper ruptured his achilles on Sat, so don't do that!

I'm trying to rein myself in from overdoing it again.

[Gary the Enfield]

Tonight I have a choice of two races:

1: Every year our club organises a track mile race. Does exactly what it says on the tin. Last year I got round in 5m 47secs.

2. Tonight is also the start of the open water aquathlon series at Lea Valley. 500m swim and 5.5k run

I've been looking forward to both these races and had not, up to last weekend, decided which to do. I have now had that decision taken from me as I have some sort of tendonopathy in my right Achilles and it's bloody sore walking down stairs let alone trying to run.

That sucks. How long does that keep you out for? As mentioned above, our keeper ruptured his achilles on Sat, so don't do that!

I'm trying to rein myself in from overdoing it again.

Seeing my physio tonight. Hopefully R.I.C.E. and a bit of massage and/ or ultrasound treatment will do it. About a week before I can run again but should still be able to swim and cycle.

[TANGODANCER]

Field with bull, unpredictable animal in it and members of the public running across it. Hmmmm, well organised that.

[LeverEnd]

Field with bull, unpredictable animal in it and members of the public running across it. Hmmmm, well organised that.

There's a certain freedom in fell running, they don't like it too organised or so I'm told. This is a very rare occurrence and it would be a crying shame if fell running was sanitised as a result.

[thebish]

Field with bull, unpredictable animal in it and members of the public running across it. Hmmmm, well organised that.

There's a certain freedom in fell running, they don't like it too organised or so I'm told. This is a very rare occurrence and it would be a crying shame if fell running was sanitised as a result.

health and safety gone MAD!!!

[Gary the Enfield]

Tonight I have a choice of two races:

1: Every year our club organises a track mile race. Does exactly what it says on the tin. Last year I got round in 5m 47secs.

2. Tonight is also the start of the open water aquathlon series at Lea Valley. 500m swim and 5.5k run

I've been looking forward to both these races and had not, up to last weekend, decided which to do. I have now had that decision taken from me as I have some sort of tendonopathy in my right Achilles and it's bloody sore walking down stairs let alone trying to run.

That sucks. How long does that keep you out for? As mentioned above, our keeper ruptured his achilles on Sat, so don't do that!

I'm trying to rein myself in from overdoing it again.

Seeing my physio tonight. Hopefully R.I.C.E. and a bit of massage and/ or ultrasound treatment will do it. About a week before I can run again but should still be able to swim and cycle.

Hmmm... Achilles calming down. Ultrasound, a massage and two days of ice and rest seem to be working.

I've also discovered one leg is shorter than the other by 1cm which may be causing problems. So I am now trialling a heel wedge to see if that makes any difference.

[Beefheart]

Jesus wept! Poor guy.

Another fun lawyer fact, after reading the bit where the organisers saw 'he signed a form': those forms places sometimes get you to sign saying something like you accept all the risks if it goes wrong to you and your belongings are meaningless when it comes to personal injury or death caused by negligence.

Yeah, I remembered that from my ICAS Business Law module. They insisted we signed them at this quad biking safari thing when I was in Turkey at the weekend, didn't care enough to check we hadn't all signed with fake names.

[Gary the Enfield]

Great swim set tonight.

1750 metres swim set in 45 minutes.

[Gooner Girl]

Running partner bailed out on me again but thinking I might go out anyway tonight, do a hills session. Got the sniffles a bit though.