Puzzled

[Bruce Rioja]

A command of Standard English is, more than ever before, a qualification that separates the wheat from the chavs.

Oh, absolutely. Here's a story for you, PB, a story that I'm sure you'll empathise with given your current country of abode. I was on the overnight Hull to Rotterdam ferry a few weeks ago and there was this bunch of chavs making its way over for a few days of debauchery. Picture the scene if you will. I'm sat reading whilst enjoying a glass of wine when all of a sudden this group of boys present themselves at the bar, all in their late teens, all with gel-spiked hair and all wearing sunglasses on a boat that's in the middle of the North Sea in the dead of night. Each youth was wearing a black hooded top with pink lettering on the front which read "Amsterdam 08. Let the sin's begin". Given the standard of English, both spoken and written by the Dutch I felt embarrassed just thinking about this shower being corrected on their inappropriate use of an apostrophe by people for whom English is a second, or often third language.

[CrazyHorse]

Prufrock mate, your still wrong.
The English language goes through cycles of slang fashion which are the norm for a while then quickly forgotten about as the next batch of slang hits the population.
We don't use the same slang that the 60s popular culture used, just as in 30 years time they won't use todays slang.

In fact it's very narrow minded of you to suggest that your generation's slang - i.e. text speak - will dictate the state of our (and arguably the world's) language for the rest of time.

i may be wrong here, but i dont think there has been a generation that matches mine in the sense that most kids text more than they write, so that way of spelling becomes ingrained. also i think it is fair to say literacy levels are lower now than they ever have been. this will affect the language.

Sure. In fact I actually think you're kind of right in saying that modern life does have an effect on English language but only by introducing new words like 'lol' or 'pwned' or 'planting claymore' that sort of thing. There are too many people around the world speaking/writing English to change things at any kind of speed.

Besides, who knows - in a few years texting may have been improved with the addition of voice dictation/recognition to produce the correct spelling of all the words for us or more likely a spell checker/auto-correct.

[Prufrock]

Prufrock mate, your still wrong.
The English language goes through cycles of slang fashion which are the norm for a while then quickly forgotten about as the next batch of slang hits the population.
We don't use the same slang that the 60s popular culture used, just as in 30 years time they won't use todays slang.

In fact it's very narrow minded of you to suggest that your generation's slang - i.e. text speak - will dictate the state of our (and arguably the world's) language for the rest of time.

i may be wrong here, but i dont think there has been a generation that matches mine in the sense that most kids text more than they write, so that way of spelling becomes ingrained. also i think it is fair to say literacy levels are lower now than they ever have been. this will affect the language.

Sure. In fact I actually think you're kind of right in saying that modern life does have an effect on English language but only by introducing new words like 'lol' or 'pwned' or 'planting claymore' that sort of thing. There are too many people around the world speaking/writing English to change things at any kind of speed.

Besides, who knows - in a few years texting may have been improved with the addition of voice dictation/recognition to produce the correct spelling of all the words for us or more likely a spell checker/auto-correct.

not sure i can see that happening since there already is a built in dictionary for predictive texting on most if not all new mobiles, and has been for a while and many people choose not to use. i first started using text speak when i was texting the long teenage love essays we were so fond of, i used it then to save cash. i think there are many reasons why text speak will not be got rid of any time soon, even if its not physicaly text messages it will be internet message services like MSN. as for intergration into proper english, whilst i completely agree that there perhaps wont be massive sudden and wide sweeping changes, i think our nation is becoming more and more illiterate, and as a result, many more thing like the one Tango described to start with, the lack of capital letters at the start of sentences will creep in.

add to that the death of the apostrope and a complete disregard for there/their/they're

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

i first started using text speak when i was texting the long teenage love essays we were so fond of, i used it then to save cash.

My, she must have been swept off her feet.

[Prufrock]

i first started using text speak when i was texting the long teenage love essays we were so fond of, i used it then to save cash.

My, she must have been swept off her feet.

seeing as i missed out 'when i was texting my ex girlfriend...' im gonna say this before anyone else does....who said it was a she??

[TANGODANCER]

I can sense this thread being dragged into the depths. By the way Prufrock, have you got something against commas as well as the apostrophe? Just asking in a friendly way.

On the topic of "barrer boy Cockernee": The language of the North of England was, a couple of years ago, stated to be the nearest version to correct English around.

[Prufrock]

I can sense this thread being dragged into the depths. By the way Prufrock, have you got something against commas as well as the apostrophe? Just asking in a friendly way.

On the topic of "barrer boy Cockernee": The language of the North of England was, a couple of years ago, stated to be the nearest version to correct English around.

sod them, i use punktuation! (anyone?no?just me?fair enough).

in fact normally im a big fan of the comma, some might say too much. today however, ive decided im not using those silly little squiggles.

as for the bold bit, ive read, although i refuse to beleive, that the nearest you get to correct english world wide is the Americans. Although i'm not sure which one's! As for our qualities. I'm told we are much better speakers of french than those pesky sarveners as our vowel sounds are similar

[Dujon]

All I can offer, after reading all of the foregoing presentations, is Good Grief!

I make no claim as to the language known as English being better or more subtle than any other, nor do I claim a command of such. The written form of English, as no doubt applies in other languages, does overcome the problem of regional accents encountered in verbal communication.

To you, Prufrock, I suggest that the dereliction of punctuation and capitalisation - combined with your adoption of some form of anti-establishment attitude to your language - makes your written expositions almost unintelligible. I gather from your pondering that you consider communication to be of the essence of life, a view with which I agree, but punctuation, spelling and grammar are all part of the ability to communicate our feelings and view on any particular subject without ambiguity. Is it not so?

Languages change, undoubtedly, but they change over time. Other posters have already pointed up the situation regarding ephemeral changes or regional idiomatic idiosyncrasies which, in a general sense, change over short periods of time and then fade away into history. Cool, man, eh?

[qwertywarrior]

i have a few points

txt spk and the like is fine in its place, as is here on an informal setting

The big issue is when this translates into modern writing, e.g. children using in exams. Or worse through lazyness.

i can write proper english if needed and when the time is right but why in an informal setting?

the language is evolving "innit" and if some do not want to move or even accept that then it is "like wateva"

[Bruce Rioja]

i have a few points

txt spk and the like is fine in its place, as is here on an informal setting

The big issue is when this translates into modern writing, e.g. children using in exams. Or worse through lazyness.

i can write proper english if needed and when the time is right but why in an informal setting?

the language is evolving "innit" and if some do not want to move or even accept that then it is "like wateva"

Why differentiate though? It requires no more effort to use English properly than it does to use..... well, drivel, basically.

[communistworkethic]

A command of Standard English is, more than ever before, a qualification that separates the wheat from the chavs.

Oh, absolutely. Here's a story for you, PB, a story that I'm sure you'll empathise with given your current country of abode. I was on the overnight Hull to Rotterdam ferry a few weeks ago and there was this bunch of chavs making its way over for a few days of debauchery. Picture the scene if you will. I'm sat reading whilst enjoying a glass of wine when all of a sudden this group of boys present themselves at the bar, all in their late teens, all with gel-spiked hair and all wearing sunglasses on a boat that's in the middle of the North Sea in the dead of night. Each youth was wearing a black hooded top with pink lettering on the front which read "Amsterdam 08. Let the sin's begin". Given the standard of English, both spoken and written by the Dutch I felt embarrassed just thinking about this shower being corrected on their inappropriate use of an apostrophe by people for whom English is a second, or often third language.

was it their error though? Or was it the error of the shopkeep?

[Worthy4England]

A command of Standard English is, more than ever before, a qualification that separates the wheat from the chavs.

Oh, absolutely. Here's a story for you, PB, a story that I'm sure you'll empathise with given your current country of abode. I was on the overnight Hull to Rotterdam ferry a few weeks ago and there was this bunch of chavs making its way over for a few days of debauchery. Picture the scene if you will. I'm sat reading whilst enjoying a glass of wine when all of a sudden this group of boys present themselves at the bar, all in their late teens, all with gel-spiked hair and all wearing sunglasses on a boat that's in the middle of the North Sea in the dead of night. Each youth was wearing a black hooded top with pink lettering on the front which read "Amsterdam 08. Let the sin's begin". Given the standard of English, both spoken and written by the Dutch I felt embarrassed just thinking about this shower being corrected on their inappropriate use of an apostrophe by people for whom English is a second, or often third language.

Almost makes me embarrassed regarding some of the cricket and rugby tours I went on in the 80's. But not quite

[a1]

Almost makes me embarrassed regarding some of the cricket and rugby tours I went on in the 80's. But not quite

should there be an apostophe there ? is that an example of the shopkeeper's mistake "fish and chip's" or the previously mentioned "sin's" one , or something ?

writing is hard. there are miles too many rules..

some word prossesor programmes even have a "grammar checker" plugin now.

pfft , i dont use it .

[TANGODANCER]

[was it their error though? Or was it the error of the shopkeep?

That's actually a very relevant question.

[Bruce Rioja]

was it their error though? Or was it the error of the shopkeep?

I'd say theirs, in that even if it was a misprint then they should have spotted it.

[qwertywarrior]

i have a few points

txt spk and the like is fine in its place, as is here on an informal setting

The big issue is when this translates into modern writing, e.g. children using in exams. Or worse through lazyness.

i can write proper english if needed and when the time is right but why in an informal setting?

the language is evolving "innit" and if some do not want to move or even accept that then it is "like wateva"

Why differentiate though? It requires no more effort to use English properly than it does to use..... well, drivel, basically.

no you misunderstand

are you formal when talking with friends or do you relax

that is what i see relaxed language

if you don't like drivel then stop typing

[TANGODANCER]

i have a few points

txt spk and the like is fine in its place, as is here on an informal setting

The big issue is when this translates into modern writing, e.g. children using in exams. Or worse through lazyness.

i can write proper english if needed and when the time is right but why in an informal setting?

the language is evolving "innit" and if some do not want to move or even accept that then it is "like wateva"

The language is evolving? I always thought that was moving forward and improving.

[Soldier_Of_The_White_Army]

i have a few points

txt spk and the like is fine in its place, as is here on an informal setting

The big issue is when this translates into modern writing, e.g. children using in exams. Or worse through lazyness.

i can write proper english if needed and when the time is right but why in an informal setting?

the language is evolving "innit" and if some do not want to move or even accept that then it is "like wateva"

Why differentiate though? It requires no more effort to use English properly than it does to use..... well, drivel, basically.

no you misunderstand

are you formal when talking with friends or do you relax

that is what i see relaxed language

if you don't like drivel then stop typing

Next stop, text speak novels; ten pages long.

We're now the world's second language, should we now pxss it all away, leaving every other country able to speak and write English apart from the country that invented it? Simply because of laziness and ignorance?

[Lord Kangana]

i have a few points

txt spk and the like is fine in its place, as is here on an informal setting

The big issue is when this translates into modern writing, e.g. children using in exams. Or worse through lazyness.

i can write proper english if needed and when the time is right but why in an informal setting?

the language is evolving "innit" and if some do not want to move or even accept that then it is "like wateva"

Why differentiate though? It requires no more effort to use English properly than it does to use..... well, drivel, basically.

no you misunderstand

are you formal when talking with friends or do you relax

that is what i see relaxed language

if you don't like drivel then stop typing

Next stop, text speak novels; ten pages long.

We're now the world's second language, should we now pxss it all away, leaving every other country able to speak and write English apart from the country that invented it? Simply because of laziness and ignorance?

It worked for everything else - why change the habit of a lifetime?

[Worthy4England]

Almost makes me embarrassed regarding some of the cricket and rugby tours I went on in the 80's. But not quite

should there be an apostophe there ? is that an example of the shopkeeper's mistake "fish and chip's" or the previously mentioned "sin's" one , or something ?

writing is hard. there are miles too many rules..

some word prossesor programmes even have a "grammar checker" plugin now.

pfft , i dont use it .

Think it's a fair cop