Wine

[William the White]

The Percheron from Baron's in Harwood is fab - light-medium bodied, but full of flavour.

£7.20, so pushing it for a Weds night...

But, sod it... Nice to get something nice and not from a supermarket...

[Bruce Rioja]

The Percheron from Baron's in Harwood is fab - light-medium bodied, but full of flavour.

£7.20, so pushing it for a Weds night...

But, sod it... Nice to get something nice and not from a supermarket...

Might finally pluck up the courage.

Percheron, you say? Right oh. (Only mine'll be for the rack, not for a school night )

[Montreal Wanderer]

I'm not sure whether good stuff is cheap in the UK, or some other factor is a work. Wine may be more expensive over here. Last night I had a $22 Cote de Rhone (Domaine des Romarins, 2008) and tonight a $35 Fleurie (2008). Actually I preferred the Romarins (but my cellar conditions are not ideal). We are members of the Opimium Society which allows us to import wines not available in the stores. However, they are not cheaper. If the wines you get are about half the price I'm rather jealous - assuming the quality is there (we can get rather nasty cheap wines here).

[boltonboris]

Well, it doesn't have as far to ship for a start..

[Montreal Wanderer]

Well, it doesn't have as far to ship for a start..

Not for Canadian, US, Chilean and Argentinian wines. I suspect it is more a question of tax. Sale of wine and spirits is a governmental monopoly here. Private stores and supermarkets are now allowed to sell wines in Quebec, but must do so at the same price as government stores do - so no special deals (Beer is not controlled the same way so prices can vary). It's worse in Ontario where alcohol, including beer, can only be bought in government stores - although I suspect their tax is lower than ours.

[Lord Kangana]

Yeah, tax is the main issue Monty. Though I'm a member of a wine site that is predominantly American and Canadian, and the valuations of wines tend to be very similar for fine wines. I presume its just not profitable or competitive to ship out cheap crap, when theres plenty already on the market from over there.

I'm not au fait with the exchange rate, but $35 for Fleurie and $22 for Cotes du Rhone seems very steep (unless they are excellent examples, its rare they would be going for over a tenner here).

[bobo the clown]

Well, it doesn't have as far to ship for a start..

Not for Canadian, US, Chilean and Argentinian wines. I suspect it is more a question of tax. Sale of wine and spirits is a governmental monopoly here. Private stores and supermarkets are now allowed to sell wines in Quebec, but must do so at the same price as government stores do - so no special deals (Beer is not controlled the same way so prices can vary). It's worse in Ontario where alcohol, including beer, can only be bought in government stores - although I suspect their tax is lower than ours.

Wow !! Way to go. I thought you guys were the most free in the Western World (well, apart from Quebec, of course).

[Montreal Wanderer]

Yeah, tax is the main issue Monty. Though I'm a member of a wine site that is predominantly American and Canadian, and the valuations of wines tend to be very similar for fine wines. I presume its just not profitable or competitive to ship out cheap crap, when theres plenty already on the market from over there.

I'm not au fait with the exchange rate, but $35 for Fleurie and $22 for Cotes du Rhone seems very steep (unless they are excellent examples, its rare they would be going for over a tenner here).

A tenner would currently be about Can $15. These were supposed to be superior examples although I preferred the Cotes du Rhone - produced by Xavier Fabre it was a (silver) medal-winning Domaine des Romarins (2008), and the blurb I ordered it from two and a half years ago stated:

The judges must have had an off day to have restricted their
award to a silver medal as this is outstanding, a wine following
in the long line of successes from the Fabre cellars. The vines
are mainly Grenache, some dating back to the early 1900s.
The remainder are equally mature Syrah and Cinsault.
Balanced by fine acidity and rounded tannins, fruit dominates
the nose and palate. The wine was matured in small, used
oak casks for six months, as Xavier likes his wines to show
elegance rather than muscle. Already showing good depth
and complexity, as the tannins mature the wine will acquire
more weight and penetration in the mouth.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Well, it doesn't have as far to ship for a start..

Not for Canadian, US, Chilean and Argentinian wines. I suspect it is more a question of tax. Sale of wine and spirits is a governmental monopoly here. Private stores and supermarkets are now allowed to sell wines in Quebec, but must do so at the same price as government stores do - so no special deals (Beer is not controlled the same way so prices can vary). It's worse in Ontario where alcohol, including beer, can only be bought in government stores - although I suspect their tax is lower than ours.

Wow !! Way to go. I thought you guys were the most free in the Western World (well, apart from Quebec, of course).

For matters of provincial jurisdiction, every province is different but all place restrictions on citizens to one degree or another.
Approximately 50% of my income goes in taxes of which 25% is Federal and 25% Provincial. However, Alberta does not have any provincial tax because of their oil revenues, so where you live makes a big difference. Quebec is of course the highest taxed jurisdiction in North America, and there is probably more regulation here than elsewhere. For example, we cannot put up a sign in English unless we also put it up in French, with letters 50% bigger. And we have language police going round with tape measures enforcing these things. They draw a salary for this pointless work, so my taxes are higher. i would be richer if I was an Albertan but on the other hand I'd be a lot more bored.

[Lord Kangana]

I hate to wade in like this, but a study by (I recall) Decanter a couple of years ago concluded that wines that are entered into a large number of competitions have a more than 60% chance of winning some award or other (G,S,B). Always take them with a pinch of salt.

And then to rub that salt into that wound, retailers treat them as gospel and revise their prices upwards. Hence, as a good example, up til only last year I was picking up 3 bottles of Ormarine Picpoul-de-Pinet for 7 euros (special offer) in Southern France, and filling my boot with the stuff. Along comes Decanter, declaring them to be the most amazing wines on earth and awarding awards like confetti, and suddenly I can't buy them in the South of France (the shelves are empty!) and they're on sale here for a tenner (pounds) a bottle. Same wine.

It'll revert back in a couple of years, but you tend to find (and I'm sure its the same over your way) that price goes with fad. The Cotes de Rhone areas have had a couple of bumper years, together with them being a favourite of Robert Parker, they tend to have a greater kudos in North America than here, where people generally only really know Chateauneuf de Pape.

As for the Fleurie, no idea. I was advised by a Frenchman never to pay more than 10 euros for any Beaujolais Appellation, as its not worth it. Might have been prejudice on his part.

Oh, and have you tried any Pelee Island wines? We used to import them quite cheaply, they're really nice, but they don't last more than 5 minutes before they're off.

[Bruce Rioja]

Bruce, if you spot any of that there Rhone Vally stuff (indeed any from anywhere in the Rhone) from 2010 buy immediately. It was, so the word on the street says, a Monster Year.

Forgot to mention. Whilst I was in Darwen Rd Co-op a couple of weeks ago, looking for a bottle of something else, I happened upon a bottle of 2010 'Nature Perrin' Cotes du Rhone. I remembered your advise and snapped it up (last remaining bottle). It's ont' rack. Not sure what to eat it with yet. I have various bits of beef from Donald Russell in the freezer, from burgers to fillet steak, along with ribeye and 'pave rump'? Also have a shitload of beefback ribs (with which I haven't a scooby). What would you do?

[Little Green Man]

As for the Fleurie, no idea. I was advised by a Frenchman never to pay more than 10 euros for any Beaujolais Appellation, as its not worth it. Might have been prejudice on his part.

Bought a Fleurie from Asda yesterday for £6, before Uncle Monty posted. I'll probably crack it tomorrow. Not expecting it to be stunning but you never know. My French chums have a penchant for a Chiroubles when they buy a Beaujolais-Villages. The ones I've tried have been very good but we don't tend to see it over here much. Fleurie, Morgon and Julienas seem to be most common in the UK.

[Lord Kangana]

It should be outstanding Bruce. Perrin et Fils make Chateau de Beaucastel. Purported to be the best Chateauneuf available. I've had a few of their wines, and they always hit the spot. Word of warning, it will probably be "funky" when first opened. They're known for it. Don't worry, it generally settles down.

As for the pairing, they always say lamb, so perhaps the softer rump would do it? With provencal veg, light-to-medium flavours etc Avoid anything similar to chocolate though, I tend to find it deadens Rhone wines (which I find counter-intuitive, as I thought their boldness would work...)

[Montreal Wanderer]

I hate to wade in like this, but a study by (I recall) Decanter a couple of years ago concluded that wines that are entered into a large number of competitions have a more than 60% chance of winning some award or other (G,S,B). Always take them with a pinch of salt.

And then to rub that salt into that wound, retailers treat them as gospel and revise their prices upwards. Hence, as a good example, up til only last year I was picking up 3 bottles of Ormarine Picpoul-de-Pinet for 7 euros (special offer) in Southern France, and filling my boot with the stuff. Along comes Decanter, declaring them to be the most amazing wines on earth and awarding awards like confetti, and suddenly I can't buy them in the South of France (the shelves are empty!) and they're on sale here for a tenner (pounds) a bottle. Same wine.

It'll revert back in a couple of years, but you tend to find (and I'm sure its the same over your way) that price goes with fad. The Cotes de Rhone areas have had a couple of bumper years, together with them being a favourite of Robert Parker, they tend to have a greater kudos in North America than here, where people generally only really know Chateauneuf de Pape.

As for the Fleurie, no idea. I was advised by a Frenchman never to pay more than 10 euros for any Beaujolais Appellation, as its not worth it. Might have been prejudice on his part.

Oh, and have you tried any Pelee Island wines? We used to import them quite cheaply, they're really nice, but they don't last more than 5 minutes before they're off.

You could be correct re medals et al. I buy most of the wines through the Opimiam Society. I think I got the price wrong for the Fleurie - was $27. I checked the Opimiam price list and a case that costs $80 in Quebec will cost $59 in Alberta. The 34% increase must be entirely Provincial tax.

When I first came here (1960s) Canadian wines were not very good, and Ontario wine were frankly nasty. I'll never forget one bubbly wine called Crackling Cold Duck from Jordan Wines, though I never found out what the duck did in it. However, things improved over the next four decades especially in British Columbia where areas like Mission Hills produce some good wines (unfortunately the prices have risen accordingly). Ontario has always lagged a little behind BC (IMHO), but I have tried some Pelee Island wines and they were good. Pelee island must be about the southern most point in Canada and just missed being in the US by a hair breadth. The grapes grow there but the winery is (I think) on the mainland, which makes it a bit unusual.

[bobo the clown]

Well, it doesn't have as far to ship for a start..

Not for Canadian, US, Chilean and Argentinian wines. I suspect it is more a question of tax. Sale of wine and spirits is a governmental monopoly here. Private stores and supermarkets are now allowed to sell wines in Quebec, but must do so at the same price as government stores do - so no special deals (Beer is not controlled the same way so prices can vary). It's worse in Ontario where alcohol, including beer, can only be bought in government stores - although I suspect their tax is lower than ours.

Wow !! Way to go. I thought you guys were the most free in the Western World (well, apart from Quebec, of course).

For matters of provincial jurisdiction, every province is different but all place restrictions on citizens to one degree or another.
Approximately 50% of my income goes in taxes of which 25% is Federal and 25% Provincial. However, Alberta does not have any provincial tax because of their oil revenues, so where you live makes a big difference. Quebec is of course the highest taxed jurisdiction in North America, and there is probably more regulation here than elsewhere. For example, we cannot put up a sign in English unless we also put it up in French, with letters 50% bigger. And we have language police going round with tape measures enforcing these things. They draw a salary for this pointless work, so my taxes are higher. i would be richer if I was an Albertan but on the other hand I'd be a lot more bored.

Which is, of course, the sort of shite which the more rampant Welsh language gits here wish for. The benefit being that only 8% of the whole country speak it fluently, so most excesses get squashed, but not without howling at the moon and dire threats.

[officer_dibble]

Not a massive wine drinker...

can we do ales as well?

[William the White]

Not a massive wine drinker...

can we do ales as well?

start the thread, dibs...

I'll be able to contribute to that as well!

[boltonboris]

Co-op have got Sancerre and Chablis on offer from £11.99 to £7.99 (or at least they did on Saturday night)

[Il Pirate]

Couple of glasses of McGuigan shiraz viognier, between my ale's. (See ale thread). Very nice, down from £9.99 to £3.99 at Tesco

[William the White]

Ar Evuna tonight, whiling away 20 mins before the train from Deansgate, with a plate of olives and a glass of house red... From La Mancha, medium bodied, excellent... Evuna for tapas and very good Spanish wine... The best...