The Religion Thread

[thebish]

And TangoDancer is correct in that Bell, book, and candle is a Roman Catholic rite of exorcism (I'm surprised you didn't know that )

well - I know enough to know that it is not the rite of exorcism!!! it is the ceremony of excommunication! ner!

To please be noted that I said that and not "excorcism". Just to keep the record straight.

I never said otherwise.

[Montreal Wanderer]

And TangoDancer is correct in that Bell, book, and candle is a Roman Catholic rite of exorcism (I'm surprised you didn't know that )

well - I know enough to know that it is not the rite of exorcism!!! it is the ceremony of excommunication! ner!

I actually thought you were being jocular when professing ignorance of bell, book and candle, bish. I am very surprised it is new to you as there are many, many reference to it even in literary fiction.

[thebish]

And TangoDancer is correct in that Bell, book, and candle is a Roman Catholic rite of exorcism (I'm surprised you didn't know that )

well - I know enough to know that it is not the rite of exorcism!!! it is the ceremony of excommunication! ner!

I actually thought you were being jocular when professing ignorance of bell, book and candle, bish. I am very surprised it is new to you as there are many, many reference to it even in literary fiction.

maybe you're all simply more Catholic than I am and read different books...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And TangoDancer is correct in that Bell, book, and candle is a Roman Catholic rite of exorcism (I'm surprised you didn't know that )

well - I know enough to know that it is not the rite of exorcism!!! it is the ceremony of excommunication! ner!

I actually thought you were being jocular when professing ignorance of bell, book and candle, bish. I am very surprised it is new to you as there are many, many reference to it even in literary fiction.

maybe you're all simply more Cultural than I am and read books...

fixed.

[thebish]

out of interest - which books do make a feature of "bell, book & candle" that you think I should read?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

out of interest - which books do make a feature of "bell, book & candle" that you think I should read?

For Whom The Bell Tolls.
The Hunchback of Notre Dame.
The Belles of St. Trinians.

(I was only jesting.)

[Montreal Wanderer]

And TangoDancer is correct in that Bell, book, and candle is a Roman Catholic rite of exorcism (I'm surprised you didn't know that )

well - I know enough to know that it is not the rite of exorcism!!! it is the ceremony of excommunication! ner!

I actually thought you were being jocular when professing ignorance of bell, book and candle, bish. I am very surprised it is new to you as there are many, many reference to it even in literary fiction.

maybe you're all simply more Cultural than I am and read books...

fixed.

I think the bish is fairly cultured and must have, for example, read Shakespeare or Sir Walter Scott

Shakespeare King John iii. iii. 12 Bell, Book, & Candle, shall not drive me back, When gold and silver becks me to come on!

Scott, Fair Maid of Perth vi, Hold thy hand, on pain of bell, book, and candle.

but one cannot know everything and my own knowledge gaps are pretty extensive.

[Montreal Wanderer]

out of interest - which books do make a feature of "bell, book & candle" that you think I should read?

Go with the movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Gpdo3DZ3A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lost Leopard Spot]

But, joking aside...

Doctor Faustus (Marlowe). Not as good as Goethe in my opinion, but obviously has historical precedent.

[thebish]

I think the bish is fairly cultured and must have, for example, read Shakespeare or Sir Walter Scott

Shakespeare King John iii. iii. 12 Bell, Book, & Candle, shall not drive me back, When gold and silver becks me to come on!

Scott, Fair Maid of Perth vi, Hold thy hand, on pain of bell, book, and candle.

but one cannot know everything and my own knowledge gaps are pretty extensive.

I kinda meant without just looking it up on Wiki - that doesn't really count as "cultured"!

however I haven't read either of the works you quote. - and even if I had, I doubt that such references would lead me to any knowledge of what on earth they were on about - I would have allowed them simply to skate over me!

As I said - I have heard the phrase - the place I can remember is a John Lennon (Beatles?) song - "No bell, book and candle will get me out of this" - or summat like that - which I never understood - and (tbh) still don't...


like I said - you must just had a more catholic upbringing than me - and hence - when you read the phrase you knew what it was about.... I never did.

[thebish]

But, joking aside...

Doctor Faustus (Marlowe). Not as good as Goethe in my opinion, but obviously has historical precedent.

go on....

would that be Scene 7, lines 83-84? (wiki)

[TANGODANCER]

The ceremony isn't used anymore. Most likely the neighbours complained about the noise of the bell and pay-in-the-slot electric candles don't have quite the same air of reverence. Still got the book though.

[William the White]

I think the bish is fairly cultured and must have, for example, read Shakespeare or Sir Walter Scott

Shakespeare King John iii. iii. 12 Bell, Book, & Candle, shall not drive me back, When gold and silver becks me to come on!

Scott, Fair Maid of Perth vi, Hold thy hand, on pain of bell, book, and candle.

but one cannot know everything and my own knowledge gaps are pretty extensive.

Seeing King John in Stratford tomorrow.

Really looking forward to it, in mild completist fever, This one is hardly ever produced (there will be a reason for that) so it's a prized production, leaving me only six - I think - to collect the Complete Works live.

[Montreal Wanderer]

I think the bish is fairly cultured and must have, for example, read Shakespeare or Sir Walter Scott

Shakespeare King John iii. iii. 12 Bell, Book, & Candle, shall not drive me back, When gold and silver becks me to come on!

Scott, Fair Maid of Perth vi, Hold thy hand, on pain of bell, book, and candle.

but one cannot know everything and my own knowledge gaps are pretty extensive.

I kinda meant without just looking it up on Wiki - that doesn't really count as "cultured"!

however I haven't read either of the works you quote. - and even if I had, I doubt that such references would lead me to any knowledge of what on earth they were on about - I would have allowed them simply to skate over me!

As I said - I have heard the phrase - the place I can remember is a John Lennon (Beatles?) song - "No bell, book and candle will get me out of this" - or summat like that - which I never understood - and (tbh) still don't...


like I said - you must just had a more catholic upbringing than me - and hence - when you read the phrase you knew what it was about.... I never did.

I had your basic humanities schooling (History, Eng Lit and Latin at a level), and obligatory attendance at Church of England churches (where I'm pretty sure it never came up). I might have asked a parent or teacher when I first came across it. I just thought the phrase was so common it was almost hackneyed. I was clearly wrong.

[thebish]

I had your basic humanities schooling (History, Eng Lit and Latin at a level), and obligatory attendance at Church of England churches (where I'm pretty sure it never came up). I might have asked a parent or teacher when I first came across it. I just thought the phrase was so common it was almost hackneyed. I was clearly wrong.

you obviously moved in more churchy circles than I did!

[TANGODANCER]

I had your basic humanities schooling (History, Eng Lit and Latin at a level), and obligatory attendance at Church of England churches (where I'm pretty sure it never came up). I might have asked a parent or teacher when I first came across it. I just thought the phrase was so common it was almost hackneyed. I was clearly wrong.

Probably, like me,Monty, you heard it, knew of it, but hardly ever came across it in normal church conversation etc. Not many got excommunicated weekly at our place.

The last I really heard of the word ( excommunicated) was the kerfuffle involving Cardinal Mindszenty when his opponents were excommunicated. (I think, I'll have to look that one up but the word stays in mind).

[Montreal Wanderer]

I had your basic humanities schooling (History, Eng Lit and Latin at a level), and obligatory attendance at Church of England churches (where I'm pretty sure it never came up). I might have asked a parent or teacher when I first came across it. I just thought the phrase was so common it was almost hackneyed. I was clearly wrong.

Probably, like me,Monty, you heard it, knew of it, but hardly ever came across it in normal church conversation etc. Not many got excommunicated weekly at our place.

The last I really heard of the word ( excommunicated) was the kerfuffle involving Cardinal Mindszenty when his opponents were excommunicated. (I think, I'll have to look that one up but the word stays in mind).

Since one must be a Roman Catholic to be excommunicated, it never came up in my church days. It turns out there have been quite a few this century.

Members of multiple organizations in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska were excommunicated by Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz in March 1996 for promoting positions he deemed "totally incompatible with the Catholic faith".[23] The organizations include Call to Action, Catholics for a Free Choice, Planned Parenthood, the Hemlock Society, the Freemasons, and the Society of St. Pius X. The Vatican later confirmed the excommunication of Call to Action members in November 2006.[23]

Emmanual Milingo, former archbishop of Lusaka, for consecrating four bishops without the papal mandate. Also excommunicated were those receiving consecration.[24]

The Community of the Lady of All Nations for heretical teachings and beliefs after a six-year investigation. The declaration was announced by the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops on September 12, 2007.[25]

Rev. Dale Fushek (also laicized by Pope Benedict XVI 02/2010) and Rev. Mark Dippre. Former Priests were issued a Decree of Excommunication by Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted for operating "an opposing ecclesial community" in direct disobedience to orders to refrain from public ministry.[26]

Father Marek Bozek (since laicized by Pope Benedict XVI), and the lay parish board members of St. Stanislaus Kostka Church in St. Louis, Missouri in December 2005 were declared guilty of the ecclesiastical crime of schism by then-Archbishop Raymond Leo Burke.[27] Their excommunication was ratified by the Vatican in May 2008. Four of the parish board members have since reconciled with the Church.

The Archbishop of Olinda and Recife in Brazil, Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, announced the automatic excommunication of the mother and doctors of a nine-year-old girl who had an abortion after being raped and impregnated by her stepfather.[28][29]

Margaret McBride, a nun, for allowing an abortion.[30] McBride later reconciled with the church and is no longer living in a state of excommunication.

[William the White]

The Archbishop of Olinda and Recife in Brazil, Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, announced the automatic excommunication of the mother and doctors of a nine-year-old girl who had an abortion after being raped and impregnated by her stepfather.

[/quote]

Nice to see the religion of love living up to its billing. And the milk of human kindness flowing so freely...

They should have burned her at the stake for her wickedness... It's all gone terribly liberal in the one true church...

[Montreal Wanderer]

The Archbishop of Olinda and Recife in Brazil, Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, announced the automatic excommunication of the mother and doctors of a nine-year-old girl who had an abortion after being raped and impregnated by her stepfather.

Nice to see the religion of love living up to its billing. And the milk of human kindness flowing so freely...

They should have burned her at the stake for her wickedness... It's all gone terribly liberal in the one true church...[/quote]

Sadly, the Vatican supported the Archbishop.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7930380.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hoboh]

So basically, the short answer is Yes you've chucked all the paraphenalia. To which I'm glad. Religion is so much better at its simplest.
And TangoDancer is correct in that Bell, book, and candle is a Roman Catholic rite of exorcism (I'm surprised you didn't know that )

you obviously have a deeper Catholic knowledge than me - but having looked it up I now see where it has been referenced in all sorts of places - and now some things make sense that didn't before in wtf people were talking about with bell, book and candle!

anyway - having now read the ceremony of excommunication - then I can confidently say that Neither I nor my branch of the church would ever participate in such a ceremony!

it does strike me that there are folk on here that would like a kind of equivalent ceremony for Owen Coyle to be excommunicated from the club..

not bell, book and candle - but whistle, ball and shorts??

20th Century bish! AK47.