2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

[Worthy4England]

Without further comment from me..https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9xx1w48wjdo

What a set of outlandish comments from people not capable of rational thought. I don't agree with all of them, but it's pretty clear thinking and reasoning.

[Hoboh]

You see your argument about competence is a distraction and do you seriously think there are 16yo taxpayers out there?
My argument is they are mostly absolutely clueless at that age about anything outside of social media and what their mates are upto, throw in a lot of parents who still think little angels are babies and should be treated as such and you think they should be responsible enough to vote?
The other side of my argument is okay, give them the vote and them let them face adult consequences for any of their actions.

Of course there are 16 year old taxpayers…

Errm I'd suggest you look into the figures.
Heres some more
In 1999 48% of 16/17yo were in employment
In 2023 the figure was 25% and falling.

Look in my opinion, giving the vote to 16 year olds is not sensible, try having a conversation with a 16yo about anything of any importance, if you can actually get them to say something that is.

I seriously doubt the majority of voters think this is a sensible move, even labour haven't realised actually turning up at a polling station will be too much for most.

Anyways there's a whole lot more to discuss about what the Westminster Muppets on all sides are upto.

Just an aside, I wonder why Labour are backing down on abolishing the House of layabouts?

[TANGODANCER]

Without further comment from me..https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9xx1w48wjdo

What a set of outlandish comments from people not capable of rational thought. I don't agree with all of them, but it's pretty clear thinking and reasoning.

Aye, but there's a whole world of difference between capable and practical thought, and action. The government are classic examples.

[Worthy4England]

Without further comment from me..https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9xx1w48wjdo

What a set of outlandish comments from people not capable of rational thought. I don't agree with all of them, but it's pretty clear thinking and reasoning.

Aye, but there's a whole world of difference between capable and practical thought, and action. The government are classic examples.

We weren't talking about action. I agree that's what governments do. I was just pointing that the article you linked didn't smack me as "unconsidered responses" from the 16 year olds, regardless of whether I agreed with their points or not, mate.

[TANGODANCER]

I only posted the link because I considered it presented a fair case without bias one way or the other..

[BWFC_Insane]

You see your argument about competence is a distraction and do you seriously think there are 16yo taxpayers out there?
My argument is they are mostly absolutely clueless at that age about anything outside of social media and what their mates are upto, throw in a lot of parents who still think little angels are babies and should be treated as such and you think they should be responsible enough to vote?
The other side of my argument is okay, give them the vote and them let them face adult consequences for any of their actions.

Of course there are 16 year old taxpayers…

Errm I'd suggest you look into the figures.
Heres some more
In 1999 48% of 16/17yo were in employment
In 2023 the figure was 25% and falling.

Look in my opinion, giving the vote to 16 year olds is not sensible, try having a conversation with a 16yo about anything of any importance, if you can actually get them to say something that is.

I seriously doubt the majority of voters think this is a sensible move, even labour haven't realised actually turning up at a polling station will be too much for most.

Anyways there's a whole lot more to discuss about what the Westminster Muppets on all sides are upto.

Just an aside, I wonder why Labour are backing down on abolishing the House of layabouts?

So you agree there are then 16 year old taxpayers?

Glad that’s cleared up.

As for House of Lords they are still going to abolish it just not ‘straight away’ which is probably for the best, given what a mess the country is in I don’t think tinkering around with the Lords is a priority.

[Hoboh]

You see your argument about competence is a distraction and do you seriously think there are 16yo taxpayers out there?
My argument is they are mostly absolutely clueless at that age about anything outside of social media and what their mates are upto, throw in a lot of parents who still think little angels are babies and should be treated as such and you think they should be responsible enough to vote?
The other side of my argument is okay, give them the vote and them let them face adult consequences for any of their actions.

Of course there are 16 year old taxpayers…

Errm I'd suggest you look into the figures.
Heres some more
In 1999 48% of 16/17yo were in employment
In 2023 the figure was 25% and falling.

Look in my opinion, giving the vote to 16 year olds is not sensible, try having a conversation with a 16yo about anything of any importance, if you can actually get them to say something that is.

I seriously doubt the majority of voters think this is a sensible move, even labour haven't realised actually turning up at a polling station will be too much for most.

Anyways there's a whole lot more to discuss about what the Westminster Muppets on all sides are upto.

Just an aside, I wonder why Labour are backing down on abolishing the House of layabouts?

So you agree there are then 16 year old taxpayers?

Glad that’s cleared up.

As for House of Lords they are still going to abolish it just not ‘straight away’ which is probably for the best, given what a mess the country is in I don’t think tinkering around with the Lords is a priority.

No I didn't agree
How about you produce evidence of how many 16yo are actually earning more than £12500 and I do not want drug runners or a false jobbed kid of the Beckhams etc included
Theoretically, it's possible, reality unlikely.

[Worthy4England]

Let's cut off the non-doms and any other bugger who theoretically could pay tax, but has handy tax loopholes so they actually don't, whilst we're about it. Seems like a decent trade-in.

[Prufrock]

I don't think drug runners pay tax, mate.

There are also plenty of over 65/6s who don't pay income tax, and none of them pay NICs

Everyone pays VAT, (theoretically 15+). Plenty 17 year olds are paying road and fuel duty.

Do or don't pay tax clearly isn't the whole answer. But that we'd expect you to if you earnt enough does seem to me to go to competency, which is what this is clearly all about!

If you're competent to vote, you should be able to (bar fair political disagreements about whether it gets suspended while you're in prison). If you're not competent you obviously shouldn't get to. We don't have the resources to check everyone, so we draw age limits.

[Worthy4England]

Happy birthday, Hobes. I think you're now old enough to vote, mate!

[Hoboh]

Happy birthday, Hobes. I think you're now old enough to vote, mate!

Too young to bother the state for a pension yet though.

Any way, it seems some think 16yo who haven't seen much outside a classroom, let alone a working, setting up home scenario are fully competent (to use some definition) to vote and I'm not going to fill page after page with that.
The non disposal of the unelected HOL's kinda flys in the face of those who want people to have a say/vote in government a tad I would think

[TANGODANCER]

Just a point in this:

If the government consider 16 year olds able and eligible to vote, why then don't they hold a poll and ask them their views? An interview with a couple of front-runners for internet media is hardly the view of the multi-thousands.

What other countries do re-national service has had no bearing on what we as a country have done since 1960 so let's not see that as a new idea, more a regressive than progressive move surely. In a world filled with post-war stress disorder victims from warfare, the whole idea smacks more than a little of desperation by the government, not that that's anything new of course.

Now we've sold the Royal Mail off fully (to a Czech billionaire for a reported 3.5 billion) for the first time in 500 years , will the Crown Jewels be the next up for auction or Bucks Palace sold to developers ? To be continued...(Dick Barton signature music plays....0

[Worthy4England]

Bucks Palace sold to developers ?

Get a big chunk of social housing on there - Vote winner, mate.

[Hoboh]

Bucks Palace sold to developers ?

Get a big chunk of social housing on there - Vote winner, mate.

I think actually building more prisons and borstal would win even more votes.
A referendum on capital punishment would win even more, there is little excuse for innocents being hung now with all the DNA tests etc.

[Worthy4England]

Bucks Palace sold to developers ?

Get a big chunk of social housing on there - Vote winner, mate.

I think actually building more prisons and borstal would win even more votes.
A referendum on capital punishment would win even more, there is little excuse for innocents being hung now with all the DNA tests etc.

Plenty of people inside on partial match evidence and some of the shit the police get up to, when they are led by the outcome, rather than the evidence is appalling. There's been a lot about disclosure recently (albeit not DNA related), I think they're shit at it - deliberately. Out 31,000 cases that went to appeal through CCRC 1997-2024, 840 were proceeded with through the CCRC, 580 were successful between 1997/2024...That's what? 75% of everything referred.

Too many people you might offski for me, there, mate. 1 is too many in a systems that's driven on winning a successful conviction, rather than "the right conviction." Everything has to be "perfect" for it to be trustworthy, especially on trace where the chances of false positives are actually increasing with the complexity of the science - even if it's innocently done. Cop picks up fag packet near scene, that transfers trace, cop then finds murder weapon, transfers trace, all of a sudden, your 1 on 900 million doesn't seem to be huge anymore.

Also, they often ask a question to limit the answer they get from forensics - so "we have blood from a knife, can you get DNA?" isn't the same as asking "can you get a DNA profile from a knife and how could that blood have got on this knife?" - coz they don't want the answer to that. In blind tests, set-up so the answer is known, out of 108 labs in the US - 73 got it wrong. That's a shit-load of failure rate.

There should be a duty to disclose all evidence collected and DNA isn't infallible - up until know it's been viewed almost as an infallible conviction. Far from it in my book.

[boltonboris]

My already militant anti-landlordism has taken a turn this week. Last summer post Liz Truss shit show I had to move house because the landlord wanted to put the rent up by 25%. Had to move out of central London and still pay more than I was. Shit, but that's modern Britain.

When making an offer for this place (now a thing you have to do to even rent) we mentioned we were looking to move somewhere long term. C*nt took the money, and now 8 months later has exercised the break clause and so we're f*cked and have to move house again. £25k down the swanee for nothing, and still some feck* can tell you your home isn't yours anymore.

Come the revolution I don't have any unrealistic visions about being a poet or an artisan.

I will take great job satisfaction in putting a bullet in the head of 40 landlords an hour. Day in, day out.

Maybe a ham sandwich for lunch.

I genuinely believe it should be law that you cannot own a house you don't plan on living in

[boltonboris]

Oh, I forgot...: Starmer thinks sixteen year olds are the answer to our problems...Well, I suppose that's one way to get your voting numbers up....Cor,,,

If you can be working at 16 (I was 17 coz I didn't go to Uni until later). You're paying taxes. You pay tax, you should be entitled to say how and who spends it.

Not just taxes, but actualy policies directly impacting them... feck* National Service!! Haha!!! That one got the gammons ears to prick up didn't it!

Load of crusty old racists stating it didn't do them any harm, even though they didn't even do it.

"Kids are all feral and go out stabbing eachother"
or
"Kids are all lazy and fat and don't leave their computer screens"

Which one is it Keith?

[Prufrock]

My already militant anti-landlordism has taken a turn this week. Last summer post Liz Truss shit show I had to move house because the landlord wanted to put the rent up by 25%. Had to move out of central London and still pay more than I was. Shit, but that's modern Britain.

When making an offer for this place (now a thing you have to do to even rent) we mentioned we were looking to move somewhere long term. C*nt took the money, and now 8 months later has exercised the break clause and so we're f*cked and have to move house again. £25k down the swanee for nothing, and still some feck* can tell you your home isn't yours anymore.

Come the revolution I don't have any unrealistic visions about being a poet or an artisan.

I will take great job satisfaction in putting a bullet in the head of 40 landlords an hour. Day in, day out.

Maybe a ham sandwich for lunch.

I genuinely believe it should be law that you cannot own a house you don't plan on living in

Yep. Certainly think buy to let should be banned. Only landlords should be the state and heavily regulated approved, professional bodies. It's the fecking wild west.

Every time regulation comes up there's some feck* on the news who describes their job as landlord. Absolute parasites. "Oh I need to cover my mortgage" feck off you do. At the end of it you'll have a fully paid up asset. I on the other hand very much do need a roof over my head.

I'd like to own a house before I die. As it happens I probably will be able to buy now next summer. But the only reason for that is because my dad died last year. Totally cool system.

[boltonboris]

My already militant anti-landlordism has taken a turn this week. Last summer post Liz Truss shit show I had to move house because the landlord wanted to put the rent up by 25%. Had to move out of central London and still pay more than I was. Shit, but that's modern Britain.

When making an offer for this place (now a thing you have to do to even rent) we mentioned we were looking to move somewhere long term. C*nt took the money, and now 8 months later has exercised the break clause and so we're f*cked and have to move house again. £25k down the swanee for nothing, and still some feck* can tell you your home isn't yours anymore.

Come the revolution I don't have any unrealistic visions about being a poet or an artisan.

I will take great job satisfaction in putting a bullet in the head of 40 landlords an hour. Day in, day out.

Maybe a ham sandwich for lunch.

I genuinely believe it should be law that you cannot own a house you don't plan on living in

Yep. Certainly think buy to let should be banned. Only landlords should be the state and heavily regulated approved, professional bodies. It's the fecking wild west.

Every time regulation comes up there's some feck* on the news who describes their job as landlord. Absolute parasites. "Oh I need to cover my mortgage" feck off you do. At the end of it you'll have a fully paid up asset. I on the other hand very much do need a roof over my head.

I'd like to own a house before I die. As it happens I probably will be able to buy now next summer. But the only reason for that is because my dad died last year. Totally cool system.

Sorry for your loss Pru - Didn't know. Unfortunately, that eventuality is the only thing that will keep Millenials in the Black. Our kids won't have that same luxury. We'll leave them with debt, not cash

[Worthy4England]

Agree with needing some sort of legislation. The answer ain't lobbing bricks everywhere, they're just more fodder for investment purchases, given no fcuker can build a house for less than about £300k.

TBF, I bought my gaff on the basis I'd inherited a bit - that was 24 years back, so it's not an entirely new concept...