Are inbred MPs total tossers?

[mofgimmers]

Firstly, anyone wondering where all the 'white people have gone'... try looking at the crowd at the Reebok. There aint many non-white faces in there... thus making a nonesense of 'where are the whites' comments... moreover, why would anyone even think 'where are the white faces'? I didn't realise that Britishness was associated with whiteness.

Also, anyone saying the phrase "political correctness gone mad" should a) Be slapped and b) Stop reading the Daily Mail. It's a garbage buzzword for people who cannot be bothered to discuss something properly.

We shouldn't be allowed immigrants? Oh, apart from the ones who play for Bolton, they're alright...

Some people are a joke on here.

[Bwfc in the bloodline]

Firstly, anyone wondering where all the 'white people have gone'... try looking at the crowd at the Reebok. There aint many non-white faces in there... thus making a nonesense of 'where are the whites' comments... moreover, why would anyone even think 'where are the white faces'? I didn't realise that Britishness was associated with whiteness.
Also, anyone saying the phrase "political correctness gone mad" should a) Be slapped and b) Stop reading the Daily Mail. It's a garbage buzzword for people who cannot be bothered to discuss something properly.

We shouldn't be allowed immigrants? Oh, apart from the ones who play for Bolton, they're alright...

Some people are a joke on here.

Looking around the Reebok arguement, thats the Reebok, and it isnt as representative as say walking down the high street or and major road out of Bolton.

Bolded comment 'wake up'

[CAPSLOCK]

What about our team full of economic migrants?

[mofgimmers]

Firstly, anyone wondering where all the 'white people have gone'... try looking at the crowd at the Reebok. There aint many non-white faces in there... thus making a nonesense of 'where are the whites' comments... moreover, why would anyone even think 'where are the white faces'? I didn't realise that Britishness was associated with whiteness.
Also, anyone saying the phrase "political correctness gone mad" should a) Be slapped and b) Stop reading the Daily Mail. It's a garbage buzzword for people who cannot be bothered to discuss something properly.

We shouldn't be allowed immigrants? Oh, apart from the ones who play for Bolton, they're alright...

Some people are a joke on here.

Looking around the Reebok arguement, thats the Reebok, and it isnt as representative as say walking down the high street or and major road out of Bolton.

Bolded comment 'wake up'

???

[TANGODANCER]

Wish we'd drop the "Asian" thing out of these debates. The issues are all religious based, therefore Muslim objections. A vast amount of "Asians" were and are actually born and raised here. That makes them English. I come from a long line of Irish forefathers but I was born, and have spent all my life, in England. I am English. Our kids, thankfully, are well on the way to overcoming racial prejudices, born in our parents, because their friends and playmates are multi-cultural. Regardless of skin or creed, they are English too. The big issue is that all factions should be allowed to practise their faiths and observe their festivals openly and unashamedly, and that includes the mother religion of England.

I am totally against any form of racism but I also object to certain factions making rules that don't suit everyone. A classic example of this - and I've posted this before: A local bed supplier was forced to remove a bed from his showroom because the design had angels(cherubs) on it. I didn't read this in a rag, the guy told me when I went there to buy a bed. He was fuming about it, quite rightly IMO. This sort of thing is wrong and the root of a lot of similar religious issues. All for one and one for all doesn't seem to have quite equalised yet in certain areas.

[Bwfc in the bloodline]

Wish we'd drop the "Asian" thing out of these debates. The issues are all religious based, therefore Muslim objections. A vast amount of "Asians" were and are actually born and raised here. That makes them English. I come from a long line of Irish forefathers but I was born, and have spent all my life, in England. I am English. Our kids, thankfully, are well on the way to overcoming racial prejudices, born in our parents, because their friends and playmates are multi-cultural. Regardless of skin or creed, they are English too. The big issue is that all factions should be allowed to practise their faiths and observe their festivals openly and unashamedly, and that includes the mother religion of England.

I am totally against any form of racism but I also object to certain factions making rules that don't suit everyone. A classic example of this - and I've posted this before: A local bed supplier was forced to remove a bed from his showroom because the design had angels(cherubs) on it. I didn't read this in a rag, the guy told me when I went there to buy a bed. He was fuming about it, quite rightly IMO. This sort of thing is wrong and the root of a lot of similar religious issues. All for one and one for all doesn't seem to have quite equalised yet in certain areas.

TD i am refraining from posting further in this thread, as my opinion undermines decent arguement such as yours and others. There needs to be more people who hold opinions like yours in council. etc, who can see through the stupidity.

[Bwfc in the bloodline]

http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/book ... 822165.ece

[CAPSLOCK]

http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/book ... 822165.ece

I'll repeat my previous repetition of gimmers question

What about our team full of economic migrants?

Are we not to sign any more?

[mofgimmers]

http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/book ... 822165.ece

I'll repeat my previous repetition of gimmers question

What about our team full of economic migrants?

Are we not to sign any more?

And I'll underline it again.

In response to TD's comment. Who exactly asked for the 'cherub' bedspread to be removed? An official type or a member of the public? I ask because, I think he could have argued his case against either person(s) but can understand why he may back down quicker to an official.

[Bruce Rioja]

In response to TD's comment. Who exactly asked for the 'cherub' bedspread to be removed?

Someone with some taste, I'm guessing.

[TANGODANCER]

http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/book ... 822165.ece

I'll repeat my previous repetition of gimmers question

What about our team full of economic migrants?

Are we not to sign any more?

And I'll underline it again.

In response to TD's comment. Who exactly asked for the 'cherub' bedspread to be removed? An official type or a member of the public? I ask because, I think he could have argued his case against either person(s) but can understand why he may back down quicker to an official.

My point Mof, wasn't about who asked him to remove it; I have no idea as I didn't ask questions. The point was about it being wrong to do so by anyone if we are to equalise all. Equality gives the same rights to everyone and the shopkeeper should have been allowed to sell whatever he wanted to. We are hardly talking pornograhic here.

[Bwfc in the bloodline]

What about our team of foreign imports, many of whome will probably go back to their respective countries once they have finished playing. Id say many of them arent perminant residents and so are here on a work permit. And yes it would be good to have exceptions, but this wont happen.

As you are hinting, you want me to answer the below question.
If there was a stop to ALL immigrants and economic migrants coming here, and if so would i be happy if this included footballers? The answer would be YES, and im not ashamed to say it.

But as i suggested most footballers go back to their respective countries anyway !!

[mofgimmers]

My point Mof, wasn't about who asked him to remove it; I have no idea as I didn't ask questions. The point was about it being wrong to do so by anyone if we are to equalise all. Equality gives the same rights to everyone and the shopkeeper should have been allowed to sell whatever he wanted to. We are hardly talking pornograhic here.

I'm not having a go... but I guess my line of questioning came from the fact that I would have personally asked how it was deemed to offend. I would have also stood firm and kept said display as I also reserve the right to have a buddha bedspread next week... or one with David Koresh on... or one with a hindu god on...

I can understand why people become frustrated... but I also think its easier to lash out rather than have sensible conversation and open up channels of debate. I mean, if he's selling cherub stuff, he'll have plenty of time for an arguement!

[mofgimmers]

What about our team of foreign imports, many of whome will probably go back to their respective countries once they have finished playing. Id say many of them arent perminant residents and so are here on a work permit. And yes it would be good to have exceptions, but this wont happen.

As you are hinting, you want me to answer the below question.
If there was a stop to ALL immigrants and economic migrants coming here, and if so would i be happy if this included footballers? The answer would be YES, and im not ashamed to say it.

But as i suggested most footballers go back to their respective countries anyway !!

If you feel so strongly about it, would you be big enough to refuse medical help from a doctor who was here in this country as an ecomonic migrant? Or would you gleefully accept it and then wish they'd 'go back to where they came from'?

I'm trying to understand what you are saying without judging to quickly, and of course, you are completely within your rights to say what you like on the subject... but... it does seem too much like 'send the buggers back', which, in my opinion is completely insensitive to those who use this board with mixed race families (which includes me incidentally). I'm not too clear about what you're saying... so I'll guess.

Are you saying its okay for foreign people to come here, as long as they go back at some point? If that is the case, when? At the end of their working life or contract? A fixed term like 'you can stay here for 'x' years, then you gotta go back'? I'm not trying to pick a fight... just get to the bottom of what you're saying.

[Bwfc in the bloodline]

What about our team of foreign imports, many of whome will probably go back to their respective countries once they have finished playing. Id say many of them arent perminant residents and so are here on a work permit. And yes it would be good to have exceptions, but this wont happen.

As you are hinting, you want me to answer the below question.
If there was a stop to ALL immigrants and economic migrants coming here, and if so would i be happy if this included footballers? The answer would be YES, and im not ashamed to say it.

But as i suggested most footballers go back to their respective countries anyway !!

If you feel so strongly about it, would you be big enough to refuse medical help from a doctor who was here in this country as an ecomonic migrant? Or would you gleefully accept it and then wish they'd 'go back to where they came from'?

I'm trying to understand what you are saying without judging to quickly, and of course, you are completely within your rights to say what you like on the subject... but... it does seem too much like 'send the buggers back', which, in my opinion is completely insensitive to those who use this board with mixed race families (which includes me incidentally). I'm not too clear about what you're saying... so I'll guess.

Are you saying its okay for foreign people to come here, as long as they go back at some point? If that is the case, when? At the end of their working life or contract? A fixed term like 'you can stay here for 'x' years, then you gotta go back'? I'm not trying to pick a fight... just get to the bottom of what you're saying.

'send the buggers back' if someone like me has an opinion which isnt inthe same as someone like yours. The more right wing opinion is immediately ousted and deemed wrong. Ive had the guts to express some things on this thread that the silent majority would agree with but never put there name to. Through fear of percecution.

The main reason for me posting is
A - Stop this anti british culture pro muslim politicaly correct madness which has been going on for years.
B - The Open Door policy we have towards immagrants and migrants. We are amoung a few if not the only EU country which has this open door policy. The country is overcrowded enough !! It would be better if we followed suit with most Australian values on this subject. I may not of acheived any of my objectives, but you dont win em all.

[Athers]

B - The Open Door policy we have towards immagrants and migrants. We are amoung a few if not the only EU country which has this open door policy. The country is overcrowded enough !! It would be better if we followed suit with most Australian values on this subject. I may not of acheived any of my objectives, but you dont win em all.

Since we're all in the EU didn't we all agree to the same EU immigration rules? Definitely the free movement of labour and capital within the EU but also the external border policy.

[communistworkethic]

ok, just gone through all this.

First, Jack Straw, it's a reasonable request. Just as asking someone with sunglasses on to remove them when talking to them woulf be. It's about seeing the face when you talk to them, it's important psychologicaly and for non-linguistic communication. The add in, he's only talking about those women who actually where the full Burka or Niqab. Those who argue about it being right that non-wearers should acceed to the wishes of the wearers have ignored the argument of both majority rule and the fact that wearing is offputting to some, just as being asked to remove it is to some.

This a polite request in specific circumstances to help improve relationships and should be viewed in that light alone. Had he suggested adopting the French system of a total ban in schools, people should be rightly concerned.

The the question of immigration. There are a couple of distinct points here - who and why. There is no doubt that some immigrants come here because we'll basically pay them to sit on their arses and collect benefits. But that's just what we do to lots of fat, tattooed, Embassy Regal smoking white people who vote BNP. We have economic non-emmigrants, whiter than a pint of gold top and would have you believe they're the salt of the earth and British as can be, it's a shame we can't get them to be emmigrants, like we used to pack off to the colonies.

But, for the clearly ignorant, we invited thousands of people to this country in the 50s to fill low paid jobs that our own people wouldn't do - cleaners, bus drivers and other lower paid work. And we still do this. If you stay at a hotel these days in the UK, you'll be lucky to see on English person working there- because it's low paid. Then there are those immigrants who come to work and are preyed upon - like the cockle pickers, the eastern european girls forced in to prostitution. And now we invite immigrants to treat our sick, we've a shortage of doctors and nurses, so we look abroad.

We also have a historical role to play in why many of these countries are such a mess and their inhabitants have a desire to get out. Iraq - we buggered that up, India - yeah, Pakistan yeah. The Empire is only 100 years or so ago and we were still buggering about in the middle east right up until .. er today.

Migrants form a vital part of any economy. Unless anyone on this board is welsh or cornish, the chances of you actually being "british" in it's purest sense are between slim and feck all. I know it takes just 3 generations to get back to my irish roots, a bit further, there's welsh, then scottish and further back no doubt scandinavian. England would not be what it is today were it not for migrants over the past 2062 years (Romans 55BC)... at least. If people come here and put in to the community why shouldn't they stay? They do more for you and I than the benefit scrounger with a rottweiler called Tyson.

When Enoch Powell gave his "rivers of blood" speech, rather than it be a spur to better race relations- as those in politics would have you believe it would or did. It, in fact, set back race relations 40 years as it's tone, ludicrous maths, odd logic on who is and isn't an immigrant, repatriation, stories of just plain racism and the foolish final paragraph containg the bloody reference caused such a reaction that any sensible conversation about some points and the attitudes of the "native" english was lost. Powell was right that "ignorant" comments were a big problem, such a shame he chose the comments of the ignorant to make all the wrong points. There were two sides to consider with the legislation, or at least in terms of it's communication and application. Educating the white population about immigrant customs and vice versa should have been a fundamental part of this process but it wasn't.

And it continues, as the speech, or at least what some believe to be the speech, is thrown around willy-nilly when this sensitive discussion is had, it is also responsible for some of the continued attitudes as espoused by such as we've seen here. The conversations that government is having now about inclusion and understanding were what were need in 1968. The race relations act was the way to go but the ways and means of getting it applied correctly were ignored in the rush to show, quite rightly in many aspects, an aversion to Powell's comments.

It's right to treat people the same irrespective of skin colour but the misguided views of a significant number of the indigenous population were not dealt with, there was question of the way immigration was handled (some would say it was just an "open door policy") and the winter of discontent gave the disenfranchised whites a hook to hang their bigotry and indolence on, and which they've passed down to the next generation - "your dad lost his job because of pakis" and so this nonsence goes on. "Rivers of Blood", it could be argued, has almost predicted the current situation but not because it was actually correct but because the wrong parts of it were picked up on and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Immigration is a balancing act, not just on numbers and money, but views and customs. It is a two-way street - skills and knowledge are shared for the betterment of the country when it works well. But it only works well when everyone works together at it.

[Little Green Man]

ok, just gone through all this.

First, Jack Straw, it's a reasonable request.

etc, etc, etc...

Don't normally like doing 'I'd just like to agree with the previous caller' type posts, but...

Commie for President! Up the Revolution!

[TANGODANCER]

I'm not having a go... but I guess my line of questioning came from the fact that I would have personally asked how it was deemed to offend. I would have also stood firm and kept said display as I also reserve the right to have a buddha bedspread next week... or one with David Koresh on... or one with a hindu god on...

I can understand why people become frustrated... but I also think its easier to lash out rather than have sensible conversation and open up channels of debate. I mean, if he's selling cherub stuff, he'll have plenty of time for an arguement!

Don't think we're at odds on much here Mof. My only concern is that, as a Catholic and there always being a "Catholic Shop" in the town with all the associated images, rosaries, prayer books etc etc, then whilst I am quite happy to see Muslim versions of the same, Muslims seem to see such as a red rag to a bull. We need to take lessons from pre re-conquest Spain, where Christans, Muslims and Jews lived and prayed in harmony, each respecting the others rights to do so. The auto-de-fes amd the Inquisitions are shameful memories to most Christians today, as are the murky power motivated Crusades which had no God in mind other than money (The soldiers may have believed they were fighting for thier faith, but the real underlining factor was always politics and wealth).

But it was all a long time ago with no one today responsible for any of it. Time to put the past to bed and move on.........together.

[mofgimmers]

Don't think we're at odds on much here Mof. My only concern is that, as a Catholic and there always being a "Catholic Shop" in the town with all the associated images, rosaries, prayer books etc etc, then whilst I am quite happy to see Muslim versions of the same, SOME Muslims seem to see such as a red rag to a bull.

Great to hear... we're all keeping our temper quite well... which is unusual on a tpoic such as this. Good work all.