The Politics Thread

[Lord Kangana]

I have a close relative who works in press relations.

They make 99.999% of the stuff up that you read in the papers. Said relative is having retractions printed on an almost daily basis.

The other miniscule percentage was probably half true about a decade ago.

I'm not sure this changes anyone's perceptions of our beloved tabloid press...

[Prufrock]

I don't understand the objection to AV that the bloke in each seat can win it by having less of the vote than someone else. Yeah, that sounds bollocks, but no more bollocks than PR, which despite it's professed 'the person with the most votes wins' balls, can and does do the same thing with governments. I happen to think the MP-constituent link is quite important, hence my own preference for AV+ over straight PR, however I 'reckon' the vast majority of people cast their General Election vote in an almost presidential manner these days. Certainly for the party they want to govern the country as well as their own constituency.

In short, it comes down to a choice between two pretty shit systems, but a 'no' vote closes the door on ever getting a proper electoral system, whereas a 'yes' vote gets another shit system, if IMO, slightly better, but gives a real possibility for a proper one later. Essentially, if you are over about 40 and ever want a possibility of seeing PR or AV+ in your lifetime, you need to vote yes.

The campaigns themselves have been piss poor. 'No' have called the public thick, and then blatantly lied to their face (which given they seem odds on to win actually makes it seem they were right!). The whole more votes thing is bollocks. That Jo Swinson put it nicely when she said, "If I ask you to go and buy me a chocolate bar and say, 'I'd like a Mars but if they don't have that I'd like a Twix' and you come back with a Twix, I still only have one chocolate bar". Despite the No campaign being piss poor, the only support a Yes campaign that themselves don't want AV can muster is look at the shiney celebrities who say it's good.

It's the wrong question, and everyone knows it. Canny like, from the bastards.

[Harry Genshaw]

I seem to have missed it somewhere but why is it AV rather than PR on offer? As I understand it the Lib Dems used to condemn the former but championed the latter - so why, anyone know?

[thebish]

I seem to have missed it somewhere but why is it AV rather than PR on offer? As I understand it the Lib Dems used to condemn the former but championed the latter - so why, anyone know?

because it's all the tories would allow - and (if you are cynical) - they knew it was easy to destroy (especially as Clegg himself had already dissed it).

[Prufrock]

Indeed. An incendiary olive branch.

[Lord Kangana]

That would explain all the forest fires, anyway....

[Bruce Rioja]

Well, my minds made up. I'm a yes man.

[thebish]

Well, my minds made up. I'm a yes man.

good chap!

[Lord Kangana]

Interestingly, I've spoken to a few people who (and it surprised me) said they would vote yes.

The word on the street is that the yes campaign will take a pounding. Its probably going to be a lot closer than has been predicted. Possibly.

[Armchair Wanderer]

Interestingly, I've spoken to a few people who (and it surprised me) said they would vote yes.

The word on the street is that the yes campaign will take a pounding. Its probably going to be a lot closer than has been predicted. Possibly.

It'll be interesting. I imagine the whole world would want to give Clegg a beating but who knows. AV would be more fun!

[Raven]

Its a yes from me too, mainly cos if Cameron says vote no then the other option must be better

[Gravedigger]

In London it's expected that a very low turnout will be on the cards. Before even considering AV, AV+, or even AV- there might have been a referendum to find out if voting should be made compulsory. AV keeps the safe Lab, Lib, Con seats safe still. It will be the marginals that will see a watering down to Independents, Loony-Toons and maybe even some far right parties. The Deputy Mayor of Padiham, John Cave, is likely to occupy the mayors' position next year, then who knows where, Westminster perhaps.
I'm voting "No" and hoping the No-vote will win on this occasion then we can get stuck in to proper proportional representation, not some messy, appeasing cock up.

[thebish]

I'm voting "No" and hoping the No-vote will win on this occasion then we can get stuck in to proper proportional representation, not some messy, appeasing cock up.

a no vote will take the matter completely off the agenda for your lifetime.

[Lofthouse Lower]

I'm not going to vote

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm not going to vote

Right but whats your second and third choices?

[Lofthouse Lower]

No and Yes

[Gravedigger]

I'm voting "No" and hoping the No-vote will win on this occasion then we can get stuck in to proper proportional representation, not some messy, appeasing cock up.

a no vote will take the matter completely off the agenda for your lifetime.

Next General; Election might be off the agenda at my age.
A "Yes" vote will allow DC to say that PR has been dealt with. A "No" vote will allow DC to say that PR has been dealt with. And the predicted 15% turnout in London will give Boris Johnson an excuse as to why his bicycle scheme isn't popular.
Of course when Euro Gravytrain elections, local elections, parliamentary elections and mayoral elections take place simultaneously you'll be given several pieces of paper with about five hundred names to write your preferences alongside. Oh, bogger! This'll discriminate against those who can't count!

[thebish]

this made me smile...

[Prufrock]

I'm going popping my Yes in the box very soon.Barely anyone at work even knew this was going on. Turnout LOOOOOW. Mi mither is the only person I know voting No though, including a fair few Tories, and I think that's only coz she likes to be contrary. I reckon it will be closer than expected, but still balls.

[Bruce Rioja]

Err, I've just thought - I've no idea how the vote's being counted, in that, will it just be a total number (out of everyone that voted, x million voted yes and x million no)? Or will it be done on constituances? Sorry for what will appear to be a proper numb-arsed question but I genuinely don't know.