creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

[BWFC_Insane]

It certainly feels like it needs a plan. As Jimbo says, Sibley is one who's scoring in CC at opener along with Burns. He's done nothing this year to merit his place, yet is probably in the top 2 best English openers in the CC. We've had plenty of similar stories with opening bats since Strauss, with none of the 26 of them (apart from Joe Root) averaging above Burns...

Suspect if I could find the same table for No 3's it would tell a similar story.

So whilst I agree on the need for a plan, I'm not sure what that plan is....maybe lock someone up in nets for 4 years...

What's Sibley's first class average? Not picking on him and I haven't looked it up but my sense is in most cases FC average is always at least slightly above test average and usually but not always a ceiling beyond which a player is unlikely to progress. There are obviously exceptions and statistical anomalies and I think we all accept that Sibley is dreadful but we haven't got a queue of others to come in. The problem with Sibley is his game is so limited its so hard to see even with years of work where he'll improve to the point you could see him as a functional test opener with enough shots to not be completely bottled up by any half decent attack. I'd imagine Crawley has a far worse record but that as a more rounded batsman with more FC experience there is a reasonable chance he would increase that average with some work. Its harder to see DS do that at least from what I've seen.

[Worthy4England]

It certainly feels like it needs a plan. As Jimbo says, Sibley is one who's scoring in CC at opener along with Burns. He's done nothing this year to merit his place, yet is probably in the top 2 best English openers in the CC. We've had plenty of similar stories with opening bats since Strauss, with none of the 26 of them (apart from Joe Root) averaging above Burns...

Suspect if I could find the same table for No 3's it would tell a similar story.

So whilst I agree on the need for a plan, I'm not sure what that plan is....maybe lock someone up in nets for 4 years...

What's Sibley's first class average? Not picking on him and I haven't looked it up but my sense is in most cases FC average is always at least slightly above test average and usually but not always a ceiling beyond which a player is unlikely to progress. There are obviously exceptions and statistical anomalies and I think we all accept that Sibley is dreadful but we haven't got a queue of others to come in. The problem with Sibley is his game is so limited its so hard to see even with years of work where he'll improve to the point you could see him as a functional test opener with enough shots to not be completely bottled up by any half decent attack. I'd imagine Crawley has a far worse record but that as a more rounded batsman with more FC experience there is a reasonable chance he would increase that average with some work. Its harder to see DS do that at least from what I've seen.

Sibley's around 39 in FC games. Of course I'd rather have his bowling average at 67. Whereas Zak's is around 31.

[BWFC_Insane]

It certainly feels like it needs a plan. As Jimbo says, Sibley is one who's scoring in CC at opener along with Burns. He's done nothing this year to merit his place, yet is probably in the top 2 best English openers in the CC. We've had plenty of similar stories with opening bats since Strauss, with none of the 26 of them (apart from Joe Root) averaging above Burns...

Suspect if I could find the same table for No 3's it would tell a similar story.

So whilst I agree on the need for a plan, I'm not sure what that plan is....maybe lock someone up in nets for 4 years...

What's Sibley's first class average? Not picking on him and I haven't looked it up but my sense is in most cases FC average is always at least slightly above test average and usually but not always a ceiling beyond which a player is unlikely to progress. There are obviously exceptions and statistical anomalies and I think we all accept that Sibley is dreadful but we haven't got a queue of others to come in. The problem with Sibley is his game is so limited its so hard to see even with years of work where he'll improve to the point you could see him as a functional test opener with enough shots to not be completely bottled up by any half decent attack. I'd imagine Crawley has a far worse record but that as a more rounded batsman with more FC experience there is a reasonable chance he would increase that average with some work. Its harder to see DS do that at least from what I've seen.

Sibley's around 39 in FC games. Of course I'd rather have his bowling average at 67. Whereas Zak's is around 31.

Ok that's probably about what I expected perhaps Crawley's is a little lower than is ideal though he's earlier in his career. So the question is then is Crawley's more rounded game more able to be tamed to produce scores at test level than Sibley's very limited game able to be expanded to produce scores at test level?

I don't know but I'd guess its easier to work with Crawley on his defensive technique and not playing at the ball than it will be to completely rebuild Sibley (and you're working with a sub 40 FC average) and turn him into someone who can realistically open the test batting without scoring 9 of 100 balls. I don't think either are easy in the short term but we have to field a side. Ideally both would no go back and play red ball cricket for their counties till end of summer.....with some work and guidance...but I guess that's not an option.

[Worthy4England]

Well we're sorta assuming with that narrative that they're looking at Crawley replacing Sibley - which is fine, then we still need a three and they're not in huge supply either!

[BWFC_Insane]

Well we're sorta assuming with that narrative that they're looking at Crawley replacing Sibley - which is fine, then we still need a three and they're not in huge supply either!

Yep - we might need to re-think and do something radical. Like find an opener and even put Sibley into the middle order. Perhaps if he's batting with Bairstow, Root and Buttler his game will help slow down the collapses and allow the other batter to play their more attacking game? Nice theory - probably a disaster in practice. But we need to find a batting order that works better than what we've got now which is stifled but resistant at the top but then if a wicket falls everyone hopes Root makes a score then after that you've got quick scorers but in truth not much resistance.

[jimbo]

Well we're sorta assuming with that narrative that they're looking at Crawley replacing Sibley - which is fine, then we still need a three and they're not in huge supply either!

Yep - we might need to re-think and do something radical. Like find an opener and even put Sibley into the middle order. Perhaps if he's batting with Bairstow, Root and Buttler his game will help slow down the collapses and allow the other batter to play their more attacking game? Nice theory - probably a disaster in practice. But we need to find a batting order that works better than what we've got now which is stifled but resistant at the top but then if a wicket falls everyone hopes Root makes a score then after that you've got quick scorers but in truth not much resistance.

I wouldn’t fully write Sibley off yet. He needs dropping now and looks badly out of his depth, but he’s still only 25 and has shown good levels of concentration and an ability to bat a long time. It feels like he’s gone the way of a few players once the spotlight focuses on them, in that he’s gone completely into his shell and has almost become a caricature of himself. The main complaint at the moment is that he has no scoring options, other than the clip off his legs. Teams have worked that out, pack the on side, and he’s now just prodding it to short mid wicket.

You don’t need many shots to be a successful test opener. Adding a solid punched drive off the front foot, and a cut shot would help. He really needs to find a way to rotate the strike. I feel that’s possible with another year in county cricket, away from the focus of test matches. He’s already proved the mental side needed to open the batting.

Burns is what he is I think. He’ll probably always be a player that averages 30, which post Strauss retirement is depressingly high achieving. Probably due to lack of alternatives he’ll be in the side for a while.

Who to pick instead? Christ knows. We seem to have struggled since we stopped picking people born in South Africa.

[Bruce Rioja]

Anyone else at OT for the 5th Test, btw? I'm there on the second day (Saturday) and naturally hoping that I won't be there for a dead rubber.

[Worthy4England]

Bizzarely enough, I think that's part of the problem. We don't have enough people playing on fast dry wickets where they're getting it stuffed up them plenty

[BWFC_Insane]

Well we're sorta assuming with that narrative that they're looking at Crawley replacing Sibley - which is fine, then we still need a three and they're not in huge supply either!

Yep - we might need to re-think and do something radical. Like find an opener and even put Sibley into the middle order. Perhaps if he's batting with Bairstow, Root and Buttler his game will help slow down the collapses and allow the other batter to play their more attacking game? Nice theory - probably a disaster in practice. But we need to find a batting order that works better than what we've got now which is stifled but resistant at the top but then if a wicket falls everyone hopes Root makes a score then after that you've got quick scorers but in truth not much resistance.

I wouldn’t fully write Sibley off yet. He needs dropping now and looks badly out of his depth, but he’s still only 25 and has shown good levels of concentration and an ability to bat a long time. It feels like he’s gone the way of a few players once the spotlight focuses on them, in that he’s gone completely into his shell and has almost become a caricature of himself. The main complaint at the moment is that he has no scoring options, other than the clip off his legs. Teams have worked that out, pack the on side, and he’s now just prodding it to short mid wicket.

You don’t need many shots to be a successful test opener. Adding a solid punched drive off the front foot, and a cut shot would help. He really needs to find a way to rotate the strike. I feel that’s possible with another year in county cricket, away from the focus of test matches. He’s already proved the mental side needed to open the batting.

Burns is what he is I think. He’ll probably always be a player that averages 30, which post Strauss retirement is depressingly high achieving. Probably due to lack of alternatives he’ll be in the side for a while.

Who to pick instead? Christ knows. We seem to have struggled since we stopped picking people born in South Africa.

Yeah I guess my point is we’ve got to find a way to maximise our limited resources at test level now. Rather than just say ‘we’ve got no batsmen let’s just lose all the time’. It’s tough but we might need to think outside the box a bit.

[TANGODANCER]

Yeah I guess my point is we’ve got to find a way to maximise our limited resources at test level now. Rather than just say ‘we’ve got no batsmen let’s just lose all the time’. It’s tough but we might need to think outside the box a bit.
[/quote]

You mean like having Broad and Anderson as opening bats? It's a plan..

[jimbo]

Well we're sorta assuming with that narrative that they're looking at Crawley replacing Sibley - which is fine, then we still need a three and they're not in huge supply either!

Yep - we might need to re-think and do something radical. Like find an opener and even put Sibley into the middle order. Perhaps if he's batting with Bairstow, Root and Buttler his game will help slow down the collapses and allow the other batter to play their more attacking game? Nice theory - probably a disaster in practice. But we need to find a batting order that works better than what we've got now which is stifled but resistant at the top but then if a wicket falls everyone hopes Root makes a score then after that you've got quick scorers but in truth not much resistance.

I wouldn’t fully write Sibley off yet. He needs dropping now and looks badly out of his depth, but he’s still only 25 and has shown good levels of concentration and an ability to bat a long time. It feels like he’s gone the way of a few players once the spotlight focuses on them, in that he’s gone completely into his shell and has almost become a caricature of himself. The main complaint at the moment is that he has no scoring options, other than the clip off his legs. Teams have worked that out, pack the on side, and he’s now just prodding it to short mid wicket.

You don’t need many shots to be a successful test opener. Adding a solid punched drive off the front foot, and a cut shot would help. He really needs to find a way to rotate the strike. I feel that’s possible with another year in county cricket, away from the focus of test matches. He’s already proved the mental side needed to open the batting.

Burns is what he is I think. He’ll probably always be a player that averages 30, which post Strauss retirement is depressingly high achieving. Probably due to lack of alternatives he’ll be in the side for a while.

Who to pick instead? Christ knows. We seem to have struggled since we stopped picking people born in South Africa.

Yeah I guess my point is we’ve got to find a way to maximise our limited resources at test level now. Rather than just say ‘we’ve got no batsmen let’s just lose all the time’. It’s tough but we might need to think outside the box a bit.

I’m not sure what we try next though. We’ve been through packing the line up with funky all rounders and everyone teeing off with Baylis. Then we had Denly who’s only role was to chew up a hundred balls at 3 so our middle order could then fail to capitalise, we’ve done young and up and coming with Crawley, Lawrence and Pope, and now we’re no better than we were 3 years ago.

In previous times we’ve had the Dad’s army approach in times of crisis and called up the experienced batsmen who are back in county cricket. Who’s that? Malan, Cook and Ballance?

[Worthy4England]

David Steele. Cometh the hour...

[BWFC_Insane]

Sibley out and Malan in. Say sky.

So that's that. Malan hasn't exactly shone in test cricket...hopefully he has matured enough.

[jimbo]

Sibley out and Malan in. Say sky.

So that's that. Malan hasn't exactly shone in test cricket...hopefully he has matured enough.

Malan was always a possibility for winter, having done ok over there last time. Crawley out of the squad too, so I’m guessing Hameed to open, with Malan 3, root 4, bairstow 5, Buttler 6, Ali 7.

Leach out of the squad too. I feel sorry for him. Decent bowler who has spent the last 12 months carrying drinks and living bubble life without getting a game.

[TANGODANCER]

The two who helped India win the second innings (and the Test match) were rubbish in the first innings. Just saying.

[TANGODANCER]

Jimmy Anderson strikes early. India -1.

[TANGODANCER]

And Jimmy strikes again. 8-2...

[TANGODANCER]

India 60-5 as we speak. Amazing.

[jimbo]

couldn’t be happening to a nicer bunch! This is absolutely hilarious.

[TANGODANCER]

67-8. Unbelievable.....but true....