The Politics Thread

[thebish]

UK debt has now passed £1trillion for the first time ever.

now - I may have this wrong - but didn't George Osborne told us that the PRIME urgent focus of this government was to REDUCE the national debt?

meanwhile - unemployment passes 3.69million

is it working??

[Hoboh]

Anyway, this welfare reform malarky. I don't particularly have a problem with a cap, some caveats or whatever to how much you get, but I find it dificult to take seriously when the same Government has thrown its hands up and said it couldn't stop bonuses being paid to a bank owned by, and massively in hock to, the taxpayer.

It really is - at heart - that simple... Living with the Tories involves shit under the fingernails it is difficult to cope with...

I just don't understand you at times William. Please tell me how it is wrong for people to be told that a max limit of £500 benefits per household is not right being that is supposed to be the national average income? And why should Child benefit be available to all and a sundry per child even the mega earners you so despise?
The situation were folk are better off not working than those that do will eventually cause more malcontent than a hand full of fat bloated bankers could ever do, I watched a program the other night (under protest I hasten to add) about a couple of family's popping sprogs for fun (one had 8 and the other 15) and they actually thought it quite light hearted on if they would have any more! One of the silly cows had to have a "new pram" for every kid despite having a fleet of bloody good ones all ready! I would suggest sometimes you ask the veiws of your partners on this type of thing you may get a suprise.
Bashing the current government is one thing, denying there really is a serious problem with welfare is another, it's about time politics was set aside and real issues addressed or we will be the basket case in any sort of Europe that emerges from the present mess.

[thebish]

Anyway, this welfare reform malarky. I don't particularly have a problem with a cap, some caveats or whatever to how much you get, but I find it dificult to take seriously when the same Government has thrown its hands up and said it couldn't stop bonuses being paid to a bank owned by, and massively in hock to, the taxpayer.

It really is - at heart - that simple... Living with the Tories involves shit under the fingernails it is difficult to cope with...

I just don't understand you at times William. Please tell me how it is wrong for people to be told that a max limit of £500 benefits per household is not right being that is supposed to be the national average income? And why should Child benefit be available to all and a sundry per child even the mega earners you so despise?
The situation were folk are better off not working than those that do will eventually cause more malcontent than a hand full of fat bloated bankers could ever do, I watched a program the other night (under protest I hasten to add) about a couple of family's popping sprogs for fun (one had 8 and the other 15) and they actually thought it quite light hearted on if they would have any more! One of the silly cows had to have a "new pram" for every kid despite having a fleet of bloody good ones all ready! I would suggest sometimes you ask the veiws of your partners on this type of thing you may get a suprise.
Bashing the current government is one thing, denying there really is a serious problem with welfare is another, it's about time politics was set aside and real issues addressed or we will be the basket case in any sort of Europe that emerges from the present mess.

did WtW even give an opinion on the welfare cap? LK did - and was in broad agreement... I just don't understand you at times Hoboh!

[Hoboh]

Anyway, this welfare reform malarky. I don't particularly have a problem with a cap, some caveats or whatever to how much you get, but I find it dificult to take seriously when the same Government has thrown its hands up and said it couldn't stop bonuses being paid to a bank owned by, and massively in hock to, the taxpayer.

It really is - at heart - that simple... Living with the Tories involves shit under the fingernails it is difficult to cope with...

I just don't understand you at times William. Please tell me how it is wrong for people to be told that a max limit of £500 benefits per household is not right being that is supposed to be the national average income? And why should Child benefit be available to all and a sundry per child even the mega earners you so despise?
The situation were folk are better off not working than those that do will eventually cause more malcontent than a hand full of fat bloated bankers could ever do, I watched a program the other night (under protest I hasten to add) about a couple of family's popping sprogs for fun (one had 8 and the other 15) and they actually thought it quite light hearted on if they would have any more! One of the silly cows had to have a "new pram" for every kid despite having a fleet of bloody good ones all ready! I would suggest sometimes you ask the veiws of your partners on this type of thing you may get a suprise.
Bashing the current government is one thing, denying there really is a serious problem with welfare is another, it's about time politics was set aside and real issues addressed or we will be the basket case in any sort of Europe that emerges from the present mess.

did WtW even give an opinion on the welfare cap? LK did - and was in broad agreement... I just don't understand you at times Hoboh!

Even you could see that one Sherlock!

[Athers]

UK debt has now passed £1trillion for the first time ever.

now - I may have this wrong - but didn't George Osborne told us that the PRIME urgent focus of this government was to REDUCE the national debt?

meanwhile - unemployment passes 3.69million

is it working??

Reduce government DEFICIT not the DEBT.

Borrowing £13.7bn in a single month and that being a better result than expected tells you the structural issue at hand.

The job is to stabilise the debt and keep our cost of borrowing (govt bonds) low, which the Tories are achieving so far.

Unemployment, low growth etc. my view is they can justifiably point to the sham of European muddling.

[Prufrock]

Am I missing something on this benefits cap?

Other than disabled people with very specific needs, who the feck reckons they can't live off £26k?

[thebish]

Am I missing something on this benefits cap?

Other than disabled people with very specific needs, who the feck reckons they can't live off £26k?

a family of twelve living in inner london

[Prufrock]

First of all, and I'm utterly ignorant on this, how many famillies of twelve are there living in inner London?

Second of all, how are we in a situation where there ARE families of twelve living somewhere they clearly can't afford to?

And thirdly, why can't they move away from inner london?

Now, there must be more to it than that, because otherwise it wouldn't be a story, but I'm fooked if I can find anything?

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

How much will this policy change save?
(answer - a drop in the ocean compared to what closing tax loopholes would net i imagine)
grandstanding and attempting to divert peoples anger towards traditional scapegoats ("lazy" b'stards on one hand and toffs on the other) and away from where the public are currently venting their anger (executive pay).
lowest common denominator politics.. again... just like the whole Europe veto gig

[thebish]

First of all, and I'm utterly ignorant on this, how many famillies of twelve are there living in inner London?

Second of all, how are we in a situation where there ARE families of twelve living somewhere they clearly can't afford to?

And thirdly, why can't they move away from inner london?

Now, there must be more to it than that, because otherwise it wouldn't be a story, but I'm fooked if I can find anything?

the story is chiefly about housing - and the lack of safeguards in the bill to prevent people simply becoming homeless because they can't afford the rent- a big chunk of the cap being rent...

as far as I can see - nobody is really opposing the cap - the "story" is about safeguards and implementation.

tories say (glibly) - they should move somewhere where rent is less - we want them to get jobs - and, errr.. moving somewhere cheaper (economically depressed areas) will obviously make it easier to find a job... errr...

should families not be able to afford the rent with the new cap - then they fall into arrears and get evicted - and the local council has to house them if they have children (or take the kids into care) - both of which options are much more expensive than the original housing benefit...

[Lord Kangana]

And I don't know enough about the mobility of bankers at the moment to know whether paying bonuses is strictly necessary to stay competitive (which is what we want if we own the thing, after all), but do either of you understand it well enough to say for certain that we don't?

My first instinct is to suggest that a bonus culture precipitated the current financial mess. Moreover, I don't understand that we had any obligation to save the banks. That we did, and simultaneously recognise the first premise (because the overwhelming majority of Parliamnet do) suggests we are missing a great opportunity to change the world with our nationalised bank. I'm sure if thats of little interest to RBS, that we could simply asset strip it for what we are owed and then leave it to sink. Which is what would have happened had we not so altruistically saved the ability of the banking sector to award itself massively disproportionate bonuses.

Or, in short, If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got. Ie a constantly recurring financial crisis.

[Athers]

Controlling boardroom pay is a populist but not very important issue for me. Our FTSE 100 companies are competing in a globalised world and their remuneration is merely catching up with elsewhere (USA). We have to remember a good board can create thousands of jobs... or be individually pinched by foreign companies. I'd suggest a pension fund (shareholder) would want the best board for the job even if it costs them £15m a year.

ASDA's CEO is in the news for earning £5m or something, but latest news also, ASDA to create 5,000 jobs in 2012.

This said, I do think it can be improved regards the golden goodbyes they get for being given the shove.

[thebish]

'Murican priorities...

[Athers]

Not true though

[thebish]

Not true though

actually - you're right - it's not! it's not even close to being right!

I am guilty of not checking what I posted...

I withdraw it!

[Athers]

It is how quite a few Republicans would have it though

[Hoboh]

ON JUNE 8th China's top military brass confirmed that the country's first aircraft carrier, a refurbishment of an old Russian carrier, will be ready shortly. Only a handful of nations operate carriers, which are costly to build and maintain. Indeed, Britain has recently decommissioned its sole carrier because of budget pressures. China's defence spending has risen by nearly 200% since 2001 to reach an estimated $119 billion in 2010—though it has remained fairly constant in terms of its share of GDP. America's own budget crisis is prompting tough discussions about its defence spending, which, at nearly $700 billion, is bigger than that of the next 17 countries combined.

Source

[Hoboh]

If your really really bored Pru research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rports2005-2006/rrep358.pdf
Even speed reading don't make it any lighter!

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Am I missing something on this benefits cap?

Other than disabled people with very specific needs, who the feck reckons they can't live off £26k?

a family of twelve living in inner london

If you breed 'em then you feed 'em - unless you want to tip up some of your hard earned, Your Eminence.

[thebish]

Am I missing something on this benefits cap?

Other than disabled people with very specific needs, who the feck reckons they can't live off £26k?

a family of twelve living in inner london

If you breed 'em then you feed 'em - unless you want to tip up some of your hard earned, Your Eminence.

Pru only asked who reckons they can't live off £26K. I gave an example of a group who reckon so. I gave no opinion of my own at all - eminent or not - merely a matter of fact.