The Great Art Debate

[TANGODANCER]

Purely on topic and not wanting to start a word war, this painting "Guernica" is one of the most famous art works in the world. It's Picasso's anti war effort depicting the bombing of the Basque town of Guernica during the Spanish Civil War. But if you didn't know that, how would you view it? It's a massive painting and not one you could easily miss. Care to give an opinion?

[William the White]

I saw a print of it in that short lived art and craft shop on Bradshawgate in the mid/late 60s. Before I knew about its source. I was just knocked out.

Since then I've seen it four times in Madrid - and have its 'biography'. The first time was shortly after it had gone to madrid, after the death of Franco and the return to democracy - picasso - in his will - said it was to return to Spain only when democracy was safe there.

It is magnificent. Possibly the most important painting of the 20th century. The first time I saw it, it made me cry. And it still takes the breath away.

This exhibition includes 'the charnel house', on loan from MOMA, New York, Picasso's only (I think) return to this form, the greys of the newsreel, and dealing with the horrors of war. I'm so so looking forward to seeing it, though i know it will never match Guernica. nothing can.

[Bruce Rioja]

I saw a print of it in that short lived art and craft shop on Bradshawgate in the mid/late 60s. Before I knew about its source. I was just knocked out.

I've been knocked out on Bradshawgate by an artist with 'piss' in his title, too.

[William the White]

I saw a print of it in that short lived art and craft shop on Bradshawgate in the mid/late 60s. Before I knew about its source. I was just knocked out.

I've been knocked out on Bradshawgate by an artist with 'piss' in his title, too.

Keep this up and i'll be visiting the golf threads...

[Prufrock]

I think Picasso is so spectacularly overrated it is untrue. Like Shakespeare, a very good artist has had a cult develop around him that means he is often viewed as better than his peers purely by default. That said, and I can only claim to have seen a print, 'Guernica' is knock-your-socks off astonishing.

[thebish]

we had a go at Guernica a while back....

http://www.the-wanderer.co.uk/boards/vi ... torder=asc

[Worthy4England]

we had a go at Guernica a while back....

http://www.the-wanderer.co.uk/boards/vi ... torder=asc

Indeed. And it's still no better than it was that time around - although some of us, remembering that we've already had one go at it, are refraining from having a second.

[TANGODANCER]

we had a go at Guernica a while back....
http://www.the-wanderer.co.uk/boards/vi ... torder=asc

We did and I apologise. Memory not what it was. Saw something on it and forgot we'd done it.

[William the White]

I think Picasso is so spectacularly overrated it is untrue. Like Shakespeare, a very good artist has had a cult develop around him that means he is often viewed as better than his peers purely by default. That said, and I can only claim to have seen a print, 'Guernica' is knock-your-socks off astonishing.

Has to be said that when you go in for misjudgment you do it with a fine two footed lunge.

So spectacularly wrong that you can only have one response.

Respect.

[Bruce Rioja]

I saw a print of it in that short lived art and craft shop on Bradshawgate in the mid/late 60s. Before I knew about its source. I was just knocked out.

I've been knocked out on Bradshawgate by an artist with 'piss' in his title, too.

Keep this up and i'll be visiting the golf threads...

I must say in all honesty, William, that the one that you've posted above could keep me fascinated for hours on end just studying the technique alone. There, I've said it!

[TANGODANCER]

So, Guernica put aside (my error), and after all the debate, can most great art be defined as something you look at, but wouldn't want around you? I say this because I wouldn't want my house to look like the Cistine Chapel, York Minster, The Alhambra or Sevilla Cathedral, or want it adorned by the Ectasy of St Theresa, or like sculptures, or paintings like aforementioned Guernica or Christ's descent from The Cross. I can appreciate them - some more than others- but not want to live with them. Exactly what I like amongst them is down purely to personal choice, as is what I'd hang on my walls. There is no definition of great art that suits everybody, just as there is no definition of much that does the same. There is also a section of it that is suitable for admiring enough to want it around you, be it paintings, sculture or ornament, to suit your personal taste. Does that about do it, or am I missing othr points?

[thebish]

I have a strong suspicion you don't want me to answer....

[Prufrock]

So, Guernica put aside (my error), and after all the debate, can most great art be defined as something you look at, but wouldn't want around you? I say this because I wouldn't want my house to look like the Cistine Chapel, York Minster, The Alhambra or Sevilla Cathedral, or want it adorned by the Ectasy of St Theresa, or like sculptures, or paintings like aforementioned Guernica or Christ's descent from The Cross. I can appreciate them - some more than others- but not want to live with them. Exactly what I like amongst them is down purely to personal choice, as is what I'd hang on my walls. There is no definition of great art that suits everybody, just as there is no definition of much that does the same. There is also a section of it that is suitable for admiring enough to want it around you, be it paintings, sculture or ornament, to suit your personal taste. Does that about do it, or am I missing othr points?

That could be said of some art but it certainly can't be 'defined' by it. I said something similar on the literature thread the other day, for something to be art in my opinion, it has to do more than be nice to look at/read. It has to say something, he has to stir emotions, it has to be, as Oscar Wilde defined it, the 'internal made external'. That said, even if it isn't considered art, there is no reason why we shouldn't decorate our houses with things we like to look at. In fact this is surely a much better way around than choosing something because it's art. If we can get both, then we've cracked it.

[Prufrock]

I think Picasso is so spectacularly overrated it is untrue. Like Shakespeare, a very good artist has had a cult develop around him that means he is often viewed as better than his peers purely by default. That said, and I can only claim to have seen a print, 'Guernica' is knock-your-socks off astonishing.

Has to be said that when you go in for misjudgment you do it with a fine two footed lunge.

So spectacularly wrong that you can only have one response.

Respect.

I thought you might not agree!

In fairness, it's not I don't think both are good, in Shakespeare's case great, more the way it is automatically assumed everything they did has to be good. I'd be interested to see a survey where a play was written, and presented to one group as a newly found Shakespeare, and to another as just by some bloke, and see if it changed the group's opinions.

Whilst in gay Paris, I went to that there Louvre whilst there was an exhibition of small Picassos. The room was RAM packed and I found the whole lot cold. Similarly upstairs somewhere at that very moment a bunch of people were crammed together with cameras above heads trying to get within half a mile of a table mat sized painting of a woman with no eyebrows and an enigmatic smile. At the same time thousands of paintings, some wonderful, some not, were completely ignored as folk rushed around to look at the 'big names'. Though, that said, downstairs in the Greek/Roman bit I was astonished how quiet that was. I'd guess if you asked most people to name five statues, most lists would contain the Statue of Liberty, Nelson on his column, Michelangelo's David, and the Venus De Milo. Yet there was the latter stood in the middle of a hallway, and there was nobody there! Twere odd.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I've only ever seen Guernica on computer/TV screens and have always assumed that it's one of those that needs to be seen in the flesh and at full scale to be appreciated?

[Puskas]

I'd guess if you asked most people to name five statues, most lists would contain the Statue of Liberty, Nelson on his column, Michelangelo's David, and the Venus De Milo.

I'd be more tempted to suggest those wonderful statues John Terry, Matthew Upson, Ashley Cole and Glen Johnson that were visible against Germany.

[TANGODANCER]

I have a strong suspicion you don't want me to answer....

You're just suspicious by nature.

Please do. Answer away.

[thebish]

I have a strong suspicion you don't want me to answer....

You're just suspicious by nature.

Please do. Answer away.

no tango - Zulu would make me kiss you....

[TANGODANCER]

I have a strong suspicion you don't want me to answer....

You're just suspicious by nature.

Please do. Answer away.

no tango - Zulu would make me kiss you....

That's for insults. This is debate is it not?

[thebish]

I have a strong suspicion you don't want me to answer....

You're just suspicious by nature.

Please do. Answer away.

no tango - Zulu would make me kiss you....

That's for insults. This is debate is it not?

the last two times involved no insults from me... seems quite a risk!