Smoking ban

[TANGODANCER]

So ask the landlords to pay a higher tax and regulate air quality. More tax money, and have the employees sign a consent form indicating they understand the risks. Maybe these pubs could switch to American style tipping or pay a little more.

and those that don't accept lose their jobs?

It's all of little consequence now. The law's passed and we stand in the rain. How long now before we get accused of being privelleged for having smoke-break time over the all those concientious non-smokers. Not long I'll wager, probably first time the sun shines is my bet.

[americantrotter]

So ask the landlords to pay a higher tax and regulate air quality. More tax money, and have the employees sign a consent form indicating they understand the risks. Maybe these pubs could switch to American style tipping or pay a little more.

and those that don't accept lose their jobs?

I suppose that would bea kink to work out initially and the landlord would have to pay a suitable severance.

[americantrotter]

So ask the landlords to pay a higher tax and regulate air quality. More tax money, and have the employees sign a consent form indicating they understand the risks. Maybe these pubs could switch to American style tipping or pay a little more.

Not an option under British law

British Law seems to be the problem here.

I enjoy smoke free pubs, even as a smoker. What I don't agree with is not providing butt-tins and taking out walls in smoke shelters.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I'm with Bruce. The government were gutless over the whole issue. If regulation was brought in that minimum air quality had to be maintained or a ban on smoking would be imposed then the onus is on the owner of the establishment to either allow or ban smoking. If allowing smoking then they would have to invest in available technology to regulate air quality. this represents choice for the business owner.

A punter has a choice between pubs, smoking or otherwise. Staff have a choice as they can work where they choose.

So, a solution that gives choice to all concerned. Who'd a funk it?

[communistworkethic]

So ask the landlords to pay a higher tax and regulate air quality. More tax money, and have the employees sign a consent form indicating they understand the risks. Maybe these pubs could switch to American style tipping or pay a little more.

and those that don't accept lose their jobs?

It's all of little consequence now. The law's passed and we stand in the rain. How long now before we get accused of being privelleged for having smoke-break time over the all those concientious non-smokers. Not long I'll wager, probably first time the sun shines is my bet.

you already are, and the fact is why should you work less than someone who doesn't have a habit for the same money? no reason at all

[CrazyHorse]

So ask the landlords to pay a higher tax and regulate air quality. More tax money, and have the employees sign a consent form indicating they understand the risks. Maybe these pubs could switch to American style tipping or pay a little more.

Not an option under British law

British Law seems to be the problem here.

I enjoy smoke free pubs, even as a smoker. What I don't agree with is not providing butt-tins and taking out walls in smoke shelters.

They take the walls out to stop the smoke shelters being an enclosed public space, otherwise the smokers wouldn't be allowed to smoke in the smoke shelters...

[CAPSLOCK]

Exactly

[americantrotter]

So ask the landlords to pay a higher tax and regulate air quality. More tax money, and have the employees sign a consent form indicating they understand the risks. Maybe these pubs could switch to American style tipping or pay a little more.

Not an option under British law

British Law seems to be the problem here.

I enjoy smoke free pubs, even as a smoker. What I don't agree with is not providing butt-tins and taking out walls in smoke shelters.

They take the walls out to stop the smoke shelters being an enclosed public space, otherwise the smokers wouldn't be allowed to smoke in the smoke shelters...

I know, but it's a SMOKE shelter. Somebody wasn't thinking when they didn;t clarify that in the law.

[TANGODANCER]

So ask the landlords to pay a higher tax and regulate air quality. More tax money, and have the employees sign a consent form indicating they understand the risks. Maybe these pubs could switch to American style tipping or pay a little more.

and those that don't accept lose their jobs?

It's all of little consequence now. The law's passed and we stand in the rain. How long now before we get accused of being privelleged for having smoke-break time over the all those concientious non-smokers. Not long I'll wager, probably first time the sun shines is my bet.

you already are, and the fact is why should you work less than someone who doesn't have a habit for the same money? no reason at all

Aye, well, I might just have an argument there. You see up to the ban I smoked in my own office as it's far enough removed from the rest for me to do that. Also, as facilities manager I'm usually in half an hour at least before anyone else. I also usually take lunch on the hoof (if I ge one at all) and don't initiate a meeting every time someone wonders why there isn't one. Add to that I get considerably less salary than most of our high-flying, non-smoking consultants etc. Doubt if I personally will be affected on that basis. Others may well be.

[communistworkethic]

no but like in my office we all do the same job roughly, now if someone doesn't knock their fag breaks off their lunch hour or make the time up otherwise, why should the others accept that?

[americantrotter]

Don;t accept it then. Get better management in. Christ, I only ever go at lunch. it's not like half the women here don't piss off for a coffee or some other food during working hours.

[communistworkethic]

Don;t accept it then. Get better management in. Christ, I only ever go at lunch. it's not like half the women here don't piss off for a coffee or some other food during working hours.

yeah, I'll just turf the management out from a $1,000 billion company, because someone gets a fag break.

the point is that in ANY company there are smokers who seem to think they are entitled to time to smoke in addition to their alotted breaks.

[americantrotter]

Yeah, and my point is that it's a management issue. That's all it is, a management issue. Whether your company is hot shit or not. I manage people, you set rules, stay consistent, and people follow. If you're lax people will take advantage. Smokers AND non-smokers.

[communistworkethic]

of course, it's that simple. You should just ship youself over here as a managment consultant to sort UK plc out . Go back to the thread and start with TD's post about the potential "victimisation" of smoker's breaks.

[hisroyalgingerness]

I saw Our Fold play at The Soundhouse, in December. They're nothing more than a piss-poor Foo Fighters sound-alike band. Still, if that's what floats your boat!

I wasn't planning on posting anything else, but I know a couple of members of the band so I go watching a fair bit, and they're by far the best band in Bolton. They also sound nothing remotely like Foo Fighters.

Not biased then?

i stood not a million miles from where bruce was that night

he is wrong of course. they were more mcfly than owt

[CAPSLOCK]

Why delete the beginning of this thread

Let the cock be seen for what he is?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I don't have any real appetite for this debate anymore, as I'm afraid I am prepared to recline in the smug and selfish knowledge that the new law represents my interests and prejudices quite well, so I'm happy. When my plane touched down at Stansted this morning and the pilot announced (after it had slipped my mind) that England is now a non-smoking area, I actually cheered.

Once upon a time most legal disputes in England were settled by the two parties either having a fight to the death, or one party being branded by a hot iron and using the wound to gauge his innocence. This practice, despite continuing for a considerable lenght of time, was eventually considered to be anachronistic and was replaced by juries, professional judges, and detailed consideration of facts. Smoking in public (or indeed, altogether) has, in my opinion, become similarly anachronistic and it is no argument at all to say that something should continue because it has been the state of affairs that has prevailed for a long period.

DSB's example is an interesting one - would any of the unhappy smokers on here be happy to smoke around babies or small children? If not, does the increased resilience that humans acquire as they get old entirely justify their being treated differently?

[sluffy]

For all of you who still want a smoke with your pint - get down to The Swan Hotel quick -

Smoke ban rebel pub under threat

A Greater Manchester pub where patrons are being encouraged to light up in defiance of the smoking ban could be closed down, a councillor has warned.
Customers at the Swan Hotel in Bolton have been allowed to continue smoking inside by landlord Nick Hogan.

Councillor Pat Karney, NHS director of Smoke Free Greater Manchester, said the pub was breaking the law.

Mr Hogan, who is backed by the Smokers' Rights Appeal Fund, says he is prepared to go to court over the fight.

Owners and managers of pubs and clubs which fail to comply with the smoking laws can face fines of up to £2,500 - and individual smokers can be fined £50.

All enclosed public places are now smoke-free zones, a change which the government says is backed by about 80% of the population.

Mr Hogan said: "I am just a little bit surprised that Mr Karney does not realise that smokers have rights and also that smokers are voters.

"We are not asking for this legislation to be overturned whatsoever.

"What we are asking for is amendments. There should be smoking areas and non-smoking areas."

Mr Karney said that thousands of pubs across Greater Manchester and the North West had adhered to the ban and gone smoke free.

"There will be a settling down period and all the councils in Greater Manchester are committed to working closely with businesses and winning public support.

"We have got a situation here though in Bolton where they are glorifying breaking the law.

"It's a tobacco industry stunt and a first warning has been given to the pub.

"A prosecution warning will follow and if that prosecution warning doesn't work I am advocating that the pub should be closed down."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manc ... 263422.stm

[communistworkethic]

these cocks of landlords who "want their day in court" are misguided and no doubt misadvised. The tobacco industry is happy to cough up a few grand but the landlords will get nowhere, it's an open and shut case, the law itself doesn't have to be justified, all that has to be shown is it being broken - appearing in a national newpaper saying you're breaing the law is quite a clear admission of guilt. He'll be pissed off when he loses his licence.

[Dujon]

Where I live we have just come under the new laws which require pubs and clubs to be smoke free but are permitted to provide a smoking area provided that 25% of the designated portion of the premises is open to outside. I have no idea as to how well this will work but, to be honest, I can't see any reason (other than money) why licensed premises could not - for an additional licence fee - be permitted to allow smoking; provided that that fact is clearly stated in some manner outside the premises.

Prospective customers could then make up their own minds as to whether to patronise the place or not.

Alcohol consumption and sales are already regulated (at a price) so why not smoking establishments? Likewise any business selling tobacco products must be accredited and adhere to certain requirements. As with most things the market will drive the businesses.

On the workplace: I used to work in office environments where smoking was permitted. On occasion I had to spend a week or two in a non-smoking environment as it was part of my job at that time. As it was a main frame computer area NO ONE was allowed (or dared) to light a fag. Even though I was, and still am, a heavy smoker, at no time did it cross my mind to step outside to strike a match.

Similarly - these days any road - I would no more think of lighting up in a restaurant than I would of berating the staff for some petty indiscretion. I leave that to those who drink one too many or are just obnoxious mongrels to start with.

We, the smokers, will get used to it. The off licences will benefit and our wives will at least know where we are.