What a load of tosh

[Prufrock]

Well Dickhead ol' pontiff has compared Atheism to Nazism. How would he know? He's never been an atheist.

How do you know it's sometimes tough being blind? You've never been blind...

How do you know the BNP are wrong - you've never been a party member?

I thought in Pruworld, people were allowed to do what they wanted, pretty much - I guess that's qualified with "As long as it's in the Gospel according to Pru"

Etc. Etc.

I suspect Pru's comment was not really an actual comparison - but a veiled way of saying that pope benedict is a Nazi (which is a common charge, easily made - but, I suspect, a bit lazy)

You know full well that isn't what I was saying. It was a very sharp, very witty comment I saw on the internet that I thought worth sharing. The leader of a multinational, hugely influential, faith group had the temerity to describe another group of people, with their own valid, different, beliefs, athiests, a perfectly valid group of people, as 'nazis'. If anyone were to do so, it is an unbelievably irresponsible slur. Somebody who has grown up as a post WWII German, it strikes me as properly offensive. Anyone who seriously suggest that Cardinal Ratzinger, who was 18 when WWII ended, was an actual Nazi is stupid beyond belief, for he himself to use the term as a crassly used cheap insult is unbelievable and deserves all the stick it gets. The c*nt.

[thebish]

sorry Pru - but that's bollox.

the whole point and reason for the comment you posted under your name "he's never been an atheist" is specifically designed to highlight the idea that he (allegedly) HAS been a Nazi.

if what you wrote is NOT saying that - then wtf is it saying?

[Lord Kangana]

Proof that he wasn't a Nazi?

[Prufrock]

sorry Pru - but that's bollox.

the whole point and reason for the comment you posted under your name "he's never been an atheist" is specifically designed to highlight the idea that he (allegedly) HAS been a Nazi.

if what you wrote is NOT saying that - then wtf is it saying?

You've put the key word in brackets. It was a joke, and I posted it to highlight the irony of somebody with his history throwing around the word 'Nazi' as a cheap insult. That is not the same as me saying he is a Nazi. Not unless I missed something and all jokes are now real?

[seanworth]

sorry Pru - but that's bollox.

the whole point and reason for the comment you posted under your name "he's never been an atheist" is specifically designed to highlight the idea that he (allegedly) HAS been a Nazi.

if what you wrote is NOT saying that - then wtf is it saying?

You've put the key word in brackets. It was a joke, and I posted it to highlight the irony of somebody with his history throwing around the word 'Nazi' as a cheap insult. That is not the same as me saying he is a Nazi. Not unless I missed something and all jokes are now real?

In this day and age all joke are real. So anyway this Martian walks into a bar .......

[thebish]

sorry Pru - but that's bollox.

the whole point and reason for the comment you posted under your name "he's never been an atheist" is specifically designed to highlight the idea that he (allegedly) HAS been a Nazi.

if what you wrote is NOT saying that - then wtf is it saying?

You've put the key word in brackets. It was a joke, and I posted it to highlight the irony of somebody with his history throwing around the word 'Nazi' as a cheap insult. That is not the same as me saying he is a Nazi. Not unless I missed something and all jokes are now real?

ahhh - joke... can I recommend the joke thread?

[thebish]

Proof that he wasn't a Nazi?

proving a negative... hmmmmm......

where's the proof you weren't or aren't? how on earth would you even begin to prove such a negative?


his history is well enough documented - he was conscripted into the Hitler Youth when he was 14 - but then it was compulsory and he didn't attend meetings... he had a cousin who was killed by the nazi's because he had downs syndrome - and that was seen as a pollutant to the pure blood... neither he nor any member of his immediate family joined the NSDAP - his father opposed the nazis - and because of this they had to move house 4 times

it could certainly be argued that he could have joined the resistance in some capacity - my guess is that same charge could be levelled at all of us at any particular time - that we could have done more - but to use a "could have done better" argument to describe him as a nazi is, in my opinion, a bit thin....

there are plenty of things to berate Ratzinger for - I just don't happen to thing "being a nazi" is a fair description of the man.

[CAPSLOCK]

It was a very sharp, very witty comment I saw on the internet that I thought worth sharing

The nights must fly by in your house

[CAPSLOCK]

Not sure how this is difficult. The only time I have argued against freedom of expression for the BNP was Nick Griffin going on question time when they were what has since been proven an illegal party

So, using your terminology and not questioning you, at the time they weren't 'proven' to be 'illegal' yet you wanted to deny them the right to put their agenda forward

Any thoughts on a word to describe a person taking such a position?

[Prufrock]

Not sure how this is difficult. The only time I have argued against freedom of expression for the BNP was Nick Griffin going on question time when they were what has since been proven an illegal party

So, using your terminology and not questioning you, at the time they weren't 'proven' to be 'illegal' yet you wanted to deny them the right to put their agenda forward

Any thoughts on a word to describe a person taking such a position?

Last time I checked, the right to go on Question Time on the BBC wasn't a universal right? I can't go on, does that make them facists too?

[Prufrock]

It was a very sharp, very witty comment I saw on the internet that I thought worth sharing

The nights must fly by in your house

[Lord Kangana]

Proof that he wasn't a Nazi?

proving a negative... hmmmmm......

where's the proof you weren't or aren't? how on earth would you even begin to prove such a negative?


his history is well enough documented - he was conscripted into the Hitler Youth when he was 14 - but then it was compulsory and he didn't attend meetings... he had a cousin who was killed by the nazi's because he had downs syndrome - and that was seen as a pollutant to the pure blood... neither he nor any member of his immediate family joined the NSDAP - his father opposed the nazis - and because of this they had to move house 4 times

it could certainly be argued that he could have joined the resistance in some capacity - my guess is that same charge could be levelled at all of us at any particular time - that we could have done more - but to use a "could have done better" argument to describe him as a nazi is, in my opinion, a bit thin....

there are plenty of things to berate Ratzinger for - I just don't happen to thing "being a nazi" is a fair description of the man.

Sorry bish, only asking why its accepted as a fait accompli that a man who was in the Hitler Youth wasn't a Nazi. The answer to which seems to be "don't know". So we don't know either way, in summary.

[CAPSLOCK]

I can't go on, does that make them facists too?

Who said?

Perhaps you're just not interesting

[thebish]

Proof that he wasn't a Nazi?

proving a negative... hmmmmm......

where's the proof you weren't or aren't? how on earth would you even begin to prove such a negative?


his history is well enough documented - he was conscripted into the Hitler Youth when he was 14 - but then it was compulsory and he didn't attend meetings... he had a cousin who was killed by the nazi's because he had downs syndrome - and that was seen as a pollutant to the pure blood... neither he nor any member of his immediate family joined the NSDAP - his father opposed the nazis - and because of this they had to move house 4 times

it could certainly be argued that he could have joined the resistance in some capacity - my guess is that same charge could be levelled at all of us at any particular time - that we could have done more - but to use a "could have done better" argument to describe him as a nazi is, in my opinion, a bit thin....

there are plenty of things to berate Ratzinger for - I just don't happen to thing "being a nazi" is a fair description of the man.

Sorry bish, only asking why its accepted as a fait accompli that a man who was in the Hitler Youth wasn't a Nazi. The answer to which seems to be "don't know". So we don't know either way, in summary.

I think - to call someone a Nazi - you have to have something a bit stronger than them being reluctantly conscrupted into a compulsory Hitler Youth movement....

calling someone a Nazi - in my book - is quite a serious allegation.

I don't know you are not or were not a Nazi (it is not proved either way) - I would give you the benefit of the doubt and not call you one. I'm nice like that.

(over use of the term in inappropriate situations - that also cheapens the full horror of a real one.)

[Lord Kangana]

No, but then I'm not Pope, a man who by dint of his job should have higher standards than ourselves (otherwise, what an incredibly redundant position). So, if we are to hold him to the higher standards that he himself is representative, surely its not too much to ask that he should have refused? He may never have been pope then, but he'd be far more qualified for it, wouldn't he? Or is he no better than us, in which case, what a f*cking absurd job to have, no?

[thebish]

No, but then I'm not Pope, a man who by dint of his job should have higher standards than ourselves (otherwise, what an incredibly redundant position). So, if we are to hold him to the higher standards that he himself is representative, surely its not too much to ask that he should have refused? He may never have been pope then, but he'd be far more qualified for it, wouldn't he? Or is he no better than us, in which case, what a f*cking absurd job to have, no?

follow this carefully LK.... I did not say he should be Pope - merely that to call him a Nazi is overstating the case.

Personally I have no idea why anyone would want anyone as pope - but that wasn't the issue.

the fact that he became pope in his late 70s does not then retrospectively rewrite history to say he was a Nazi...

[Lord Kangana]

No, but (and read this carefully) he's in a job that has asked for higher standards. He was a member of the Hitler Youth, historically undeniable. He's clearly the same as the rest of us.

[thebish]

No, but (and read this carefully) he's in a job that has asked for higher standards. He was a member of the Hitler Youth, historically undeniable. He's clearly the same as the rest of us.

really not sure what you're arguing??

that he shouldn't be pope?? I'd agree.

that he's a Nazi - I'd disagree.

where did i ever claim the pope was not "the same as the rest of us"? you've lost me. (admittedly - easily done!)

[Worthy4England]

Proof that he wasn't a Nazi?

We don't need to prove he wasn't a Nazi. We have faith.

Can you prove there's not a God yet?

[Lord Kangana]

No, but (and read this carefully) he's in a job that has asked for higher standards. He was a member of the Hitler Youth, historically undeniable. He's clearly the same as the rest of us.

really not sure what you're arguing??

that he shouldn't be pope?? I'd agree.

that he's a Nazi - I'd disagree.

where did i ever claim the pope was not "the same as the rest of us"? you've lost me. (admittedly - easily done!)

I'm arguing that unless and until we do away with positions that purportedly claim moral highground, and we simultaneously do not hold people to those higher standards, we are encouraging hypocrisy.

As it stands, its proof enough of complicity thtat he was a member of the Hitler Youth. If he had a job that claimed no moral highground, I'd accept. As it is, he's in a position that requires higher standards, he failed. And I'm guessing that were it anyone else, we'd more readily accept their Nazism because of their membership. Which I believe goes back to the Nuremberg defence. That is, we as a majority would be more cyniclal if he weasn't who he was.