Some advice from wiser heads.

[TANGODANCER]

– but if you don’t have any thing to tie you down your whole world is your lobster.

Gertie, you're an absolute star.

[Little Green Man]

.....your whole world is your lobster....

Perhaps the lobster got her?

No, I think she just clammed up.

[TANGODANCER]

.....your whole world is your lobster....

Perhaps the lobster got her?

No, I think she just clammed up.

What comes of typing in a shell suit.

[Gertie]

.....your whole world is your lobster....

Perhaps the lobster got her?

No, I think she just clammed up.

What comes of typing in a shell suit.

Oh Lordie, I've properly LOL-ed at these.... I try and be serious and it all goes Per Fransen-shaped!!!!!

I'll stick to the nonsense about gayboys and Take That from now on!!!

Good Luck Dax!!!!!

[keveh]

I just wanted to say that at the moment degrees count for bugger all unless you 100% need them, e.g. if you're becoming a doctor.

Most jobs now ask for experience, and you can't get that from 3 years getting pissed at uni.

[CAPSLOCK]

I just wanted to say that at the moment degrees count for bugger all unless you 100% need them, e.g. if you're becoming a doctor.

Most jobs now ask for experience, and you can't get that from 3 years getting pissed at uni.

Fook me

Another negative pleb

[David Lee's Hair]

I just wanted to say that at the moment degrees count for bugger all unless you 100% need them, e.g. if you're becoming a doctor.

Most jobs now ask for experience, and you can't get that from 3 years getting pissed at uni.

There's the reason to go though!!!

I don't need a degree to do what I do - it helps and if you want to go to a big firm you'd have neeeded one, but i wouldn't giive up the 3 years of getting leathered every day for much - winning the lottery probably, bolton winning the league, stuff like that, but nothing else.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I just wanted to say that at the moment degrees count for bugger all unless you 100% need them, e.g. if you're becoming a doctor.

Most jobs now ask for experience, and you can't get that from 3 years getting pissed at uni.

There's the reason to go though!!!

I don't need a degree to do what I do - it helps and if you want to go to a big firm you'd have neeeded one, but i wouldn't giive up the 3 years of getting leathered every day for much - winning the lottery probably, bolton winning the league, stuff like that, but nothing else.

Yes, but that costs the taxpayer getting on for thirty grand. There are much cheaper ways to spend three years drinking, if that's what you want to do.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Warning: long and potentially boring post.

Some excellent points being made here. Too many qualified types for not enough jobs – we've just had more than 1000 applicants for a Staff Writer post; graduate earnings trailing behind 16-leavers; lots and lots and lots of joke degrees; and crucially, people are starting on their non-lucrative "professional" careers already up to their nuts in debt. You should make every piece of writing you produce, from essay to forum post to text message, as perfect as possible. And Commie (?) is damn right when he says that the big jobs aside, journalism is horrendously badly-paid. As a guide, the average graduate starter at a magazine company could consider himself lucky to get £15k pa, and several magazine editors I know don't earn twice that. Oh and don't forget you may be working 50 hours a week or more, what with journos apparently being exempt from the European working-time directive.

Still reading? Good, that means you have the metaphorical hunger to go with your almost inevitable real one. There are effectively two ways to get into the industry (there is a third, to be airlifted into a good position by someone you know, but without the experience you'll get burned alive). One is to do your time on a local rag, which will involve a lot of cr@p jobs like door-stepping (asking recently bereaved mothers for quotes and photos, etc). Another is through the trade press - the majority of magazines produced in this country are not sold on the shelves of WHSmith and (increasingly importantly) Tesco, they are subscriber-only or business-to-business niche publications which are far less FHM than Have I Got News For You. Experience in either sphere, added to your frustrated ability and dogged determination, may get you into media outlets you've heard of.

Me? Eleven years ago I got a Commie-pleasing 2:1 in Communication Processes – a semi-theoretical, semi-practical degree ranging from making our own magazines and radio programmes to studying body language and Noam Chomsky, since you ask. I have no doubt that if I came out with that degree now I'd struggle massively to get a job. At the time, I didn't struggle massively, I simply signed on for 18 months while spending up to 16 hours a day editing Tripe 'n' Trotters - arguably the best work experience I could have had. Eventually, The Man caught up with me and I fluked into a job at a small Manc-based free-sheet - not as a journalist, but as a 'copy-chaser' ringing up advertisers and asking them if they'd supply their details please. A fairly rubbish non-journalism job paying a mighty £8,500 a year. Then to another Manc publisher for an actual sub-editing and writing job on Builder & Engineer magazine (oh yes) and a pay drop to £8k. Hacked that for six months before moving to London and joining the Press Association (re-)writing and editing TV listings for various newspapers and magazines. Three years on that and I managed to join a proper magazine, and after three magazine moves (and half a dozen promotions) I got on to a football magazine you might have actually heard of.

What all that means is up to you. You have to really really want it, Dax, and don't be thinking it's all ChinaWhites and PS3 round at JT's. If you do get to the stage of interviewing footballers, you'll often be kept waiting for hours to spend a ten-minute slot with a tired grumpy teenage millionaire who'd rather be playing golf or Pro Evo and anyway has nothing to say because he's rated on his football performances not his interview technique; unlike, say, a musician with an album to plug, his interview technique is far less likely to interest you in his "product".

Whatever job you go into, good luck, and be happy - because that's far more important.

DSB

PS feel free to PM me with further questions, I'll do what I can.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Most jobs now ask for experience, and you can't get that from 3 years getting pissed at uni.

There's the reason to go though!!!

I don't need a degree to do what I do - it helps and if you want to go to a big firm you'd have neeeded one, but i wouldn't giive up the 3 years of getting leathered every day for much - winning the lottery probably, bolton winning the league, stuff like that, but nothing else.

Yes, but that costs the taxpayer getting on for thirty grand. There are much cheaper ways to spend three years drinking, if that's what you want to do.

...and not just for Terry Tax-payer, when you consider student debt and the fact that others who've gone for your job started it three or five years earlier.

[David Lee's Hair]

I just wanted to say that at the moment degrees count for bugger all unless you 100% need them, e.g. if you're becoming a doctor.

Most jobs now ask for experience, and you can't get that from 3 years getting pissed at uni.

There's the reason to go though!!!

I don't need a degree to do what I do - it helps and if you want to go to a big firm you'd have neeeded one, but i wouldn't giive up the 3 years of getting leathered every day for much - winning the lottery probably, bolton winning the league, stuff like that, but nothing else.

Yes, but that costs the taxpayer getting on for thirty grand. There are much cheaper ways to spend three years drinking, if that's what you want to do.

True, but when you then work for the next x years dependant on the retirement age that happens to ccome along in the future (lets say 70 - so in my case that'll be 48 years of tax) you pay alot more back. Having been wworking for 6 years my £30k is paid back. So I am totally guilt free from getting leathered for 3 years at uni. I ddid thee work, but enjoyed the opportunity to get as drunk as possible on the mean streets of headingley and hyde park!

[CrazyHorse]

I've been working since I left school and have been drunk more or less since that day so I don't really see what going to University has to do with it.

[boltonboris]

I've been working since I left school and have been drunk more or less since that day so I don't really see what going to University has to do with it.

Me too mate, I think i've become immune to alcohol! I mean I had a beer while I was in bed this morning and I didnt feel a thing

[keveh]

True, but when you then work for the next x years dependant on the retirement age that happens to ccome along in the future (lets say 70 - so in my case that'll be 48 years of tax) you pay alot more back. Having been wworking for 6 years my £30k is paid back. So I am totally guilt free from getting leathered for 3 years at uni. I ddid thee work, but enjoyed the opportunity to get as drunk as possible on the mean streets of headingley and hyde park!

6 years is a while ago, and experience is much more important now.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I just wanted to say that at the moment degrees count for bugger all unless you 100% need them, e.g. if you're becoming a doctor.

Most jobs now ask for experience, and you can't get that from 3 years getting pissed at uni.

There's the reason to go though!!!

I don't need a degree to do what I do - it helps and if you want to go to a big firm you'd have neeeded one, but i wouldn't giive up the 3 years of getting leathered every day for much - winning the lottery probably, bolton winning the league, stuff like that, but nothing else.

Yes, but that costs the taxpayer getting on for thirty grand. There are much cheaper ways to spend three years drinking, if that's what you want to do.

True, but when you then work for the next x years dependant on the retirement age that happens to ccome along in the future (lets say 70 - so in my case that'll be 48 years of tax) you pay alot more back. Having been working for 6 years my £30k is paid back. So I am totally guilt free from getting leathered for 3 years at uni. I ddid thee work, but enjoyed the opportunity to get as drunk as possible on the mean streets of headingley and hyde park!

If you pay £30K in taxes over six years, that emphatically does not mean that you have paid back the cost of your degree to society. Used any roads/hospitals in that time? Enjoyed the protection of any police?

Surely you accept that if one were to start from scratch to create the perfect economic model, then the money that is spent by the taxpayer and the individual on a three-year drinking course is a horrendous mis-allocation of resources, even if you do end up paying it back. Perhaps the real cost is the 'opportunity cost' - could that £30k have been put to better use on something else?

Obviously I haven't got a clue as to the utility of your degree, or what your alcohol:work ratio actually was, but what I am saying is that every £30k that is spent on a useless degree, without significantly improving an individual's potential for output, would be better spent on one of the country's under-funded elite universities.

There are cheaper ways (for everybody involved) of providing that revered 'life-experience' of getting leathered for three years than doing it in the context of a degree course.

[David Lee's Hair]

True, but when you then work for the next x years dependant on the retirement age that happens to ccome along in the future (lets say 70 - so in my case that'll be 48 years of tax) you pay alot more back. Having been wworking for 6 years my £30k is paid back. So I am totally guilt free from getting leathered for 3 years at uni. I ddid thee work, but enjoyed the opportunity to get as drunk as possible on the mean streets of headingley and hyde park!

6 years is a while ago, and experience is much more important now.

I know getting on a bit now , I'm considering taking a flask to the reebok now

I personally think experience is better, but using the company i work for here, market leading blue chip household name multui national - we wouldn't employ someone without a degree for thee majority of roles (even very bog standard roles).

I don't agree with this personally as I agree it should be experience as some of the people who come through the door with a degree in pop music or something as stuppid ass that are rubbish, and aexperience should play a key in that.

But a decent degree in either the field, or a acctual "proper subject" will always help.

[thebish]

So im 16 now and fast approaching my GCSE's but i have to decide what courses to do at Colledge very quickly. I want to go into a career of Sports Journalism/Sports broadcasting and was just wodnering if any of you had any knowledge as to what would be the best to choose.

I have asked a mulititude of different people but i thought i would sought out some of my fellow Bolton fans opinons.

The course i am thinking of taking are English lit and Lang, Pyschology, P.E and Modern History. I am also considering communication studies but i have to pick 4.

Any ideas?

some great advice so far.. you're in good hands.

just to spoil it all for a moment..

looking for a job, with those A-levels, and that degree???

[David Lee's Hair]

If you pay £30K in taxes over six years, that emphatically does not mean that you have paid back the cost of your degree to society. Used any roads/hospitals in that time? Enjoyed the protection of any police?

Surely you accept that if one were to start from scratch to create the perfect economic model, then the money that is spent by the taxpayer and the individual on a three-year drinking course is a horrendous mis-allocation of resources, even if you do end up paying it back. Perhaps the real cost is the 'opportunity cost' - could that £30k have been put to better use on something else?

Obviously I haven't got a clue as to the utility of your degree, or what your alcohol:work ratio actually was, but what I am saying is that every £30k that is spent on a useless degree, without significantly improving an individual's potential for output, would be better spent on one of the country's under-funded elite universities.

There are cheaper ways (for everybody involved) of providing that revered 'life-experience' of getting leathered for three years than doing it in the context of a degree course.

Nope , ok flippant, but honestly not, I actually pay to use the NHS, in a round about way, as I work for BUPA the nhs bill bupa for my treatment (if i needed it - which touch wood I've not)

Alhough my remarks are somewhat flippant on the subject, i still think that getting a degree is the way to go, even if it is a bit of a poxy one, as at 18/19 your getting thrown into the big bad world of fending for yourself, dealing with a-hole landdlords etc.etc. Yes, £10k a year goes from tax payers (probably more for myself if I'm honest being pre-paying your own fees), but its the life experience too.

I take the point about thee nhs, police etc...etc , but if you are working for the next 40/50 years is there alot wrong with enjoying a couple off years of living a bit more carefree went at Uni? Not really. I went to Leeds, so a decent red-briick uni, andd livedd with a couple of Law students, who on the whole did an hour a week (alot of the study is reading at home), its not a poxy degree, but an hour a week would make it seem so. I also knew people who did textiles, alot more poxy, but you had 20-25 hours a week. Personally my degree is a bit poxy, Environmental Bio-Geosccience, but the fact I have it got a deccent mark got me a job as an accountant so I'm not complaining.

Work:drink ratio, probably about 50:50. I reckon I averaged about 17 hours a week in uni, add another 5/10 hours work on top depending on the time of term, for 7 months of the year. then the other 5 months working iin factories back in bolton (Redmill snack foods still gives me nightmares! Pickin burnt Pork scratchins off the pig fat oven ) so you could go out and get drunk when back at uni.

[communistworkethic]

True, but when you then work for the next x years dependant on the retirement age that happens to ccome along in the future (lets say 70 - so in my case that'll be 48 years of tax) you pay alot more back. Having been wworking for 6 years my £30k is paid back. So I am totally guilt free from getting leathered for 3 years at uni. I ddid thee work, but enjoyed the opportunity to get as drunk as possible on the mean streets of headingley and hyde park!

6 years is a while ago, and experience is much more important now.

I know getting on a bit now , I'm considering taking a flask to the reebok now

I personally think experience is better, but using the company i work for here, market leading blue chip household name multui national - we wouldn't employ someone without a degree for thee majority of roles (even very bog standard roles).

I don't agree with this personally as I agree it should be experience as some of the people who come through the door with a degree in pop music or something as stuppid ass that are rubbish, and aexperience should play a key in that.

But a decent degree in either the field, or a acctual "proper subject" will always help.

But that's what the system has created, every Tom, Dick and Harriet is going off to get a degree, doesn't matter what in. So when they apply for jobs, it's almost become a given that it's asked for. Which is nonsence because quite frankly some of the stuff I get from graduates and undergraduates shows me they should be back in school learning who to construct sentences and add up.

Don't let anyone try and kid you that eductation hasn't been dumbed down, the level of literacy in this country is a joke. They made GCSE maths easier, so that kids weren't as stressed by it! FFS, when I was at school they made us sit CSE maths papers aged 12/13 because the O level paper we would be sitting at 16 was so much more difficult.

There's been too much emphasis on league tables and X% of kids having to enter university or pass exams - I mean is it grade G that is classed as passing GCSEs these days? "More kids are getting As than ever before", well if that is the case then something is wrong, either the papers are getting easier or the grading structure is not sufficiently robust to deal with the differentiation required to identify the top performers. When I was at school a C was the minimum pass grade and that's where you would expect the majority of people to be around. Not 50% getting A's that just makes a mockery of the whole thing.

CAPS and others are right about the nature of degrees. It used to be the case that if you had a degree, it meant you were part of an educational elite and you came out with a qualification that was worth something. Nowadays, so what if you've got a degree? You and half the other young adults your age. The courses being undertaken are wishy-washy - Media Studies is the fastest growing course in the country, well it will help you sit on your butt watching "Trisha" while you aren't in work. Universities are shutting down science departments because they can't fill the courses because kids don't think they are sexy enough! Education sexy??? It's not meant to be sexy, it's about learning a good lecturer will make it "sexy" by showing how it applies in everyday life. But of course Media Studies is 8-10 hours a week of lectures, sciences are 20+, why go down the route that involves some work??

Dax, some things will always stand you in good stead - hard work and a willingness to do it, ability to cope with change, ability to deal effectively with people at different levels, ability to listen, ask relevent questions and comprehend and problem solving.

[Montreal Wanderer]

This is a bit of a depressing thread - it seems that universities have changed a great deal over there.
Here in Quebec we have a free college program after high school (say age 17). There is a two-year academic stream (pure and applied science, health/biological sciences, commerce and social science and humanities), which lead to applying for university, and a three-year vocational/technical stream (nursing, computer technician, paramedic, graphic artist, etc. etc) which leads directly to the job market. The large majority in the academic stream want to do one of the two science programs - however to get in they have to have the higher of two provincial mathematics certificates. Once in university the courses are fairly traditional. The lament here is not about kids taking silly pop culture type courses that lead nowhere but that many of the kids have poor writing skills coming out of high school because of the concentration on science/math/technical subjects.

University is not free and the majority of kids enter the job market after high school or college. Every study shows that university graduates not only have more fulffilling jobs but also earn more money on average. Students take university pretty seriously and partying is restricted to Friday night and Saturday. The libraries are full again by Sunday lunch.