European Second Referendum

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Listening to radio 5 live today in absolute despair at the complete and utter nonsense spouted - but then we get to this - a Brexiteer member of the public...

BBC Radio 5 Live
‏@bbc5live
One 5 Live listener has the solution to #Brexit...

"We should stick two fingers up to the EU. We’re Great Britain - we’ve got plenty of rabbit in the fields, we can grow potatoes in the garden, we’ve managed before."

fecking hell. Seriously? Its come to this.

Brexit 2016 - Brexit delivers the land of opportunity - free money for all, NHS funding, unlimited biscuits....
Brexit 2019 - Ahh feck it we'll be fine we've got plenty of rabbits we can hunt...

And my final annoyance was that the BBC - the BB fecking C - report these views with the same credence they give to a haulier who has run a business for a quarter of a decade across EU/non-EU borders explaining the huge issues that a no deal brexit presents to his business. It gets worse though - the view of "well feck the EU we can hunt rabbits in the fields" is not questioned - yet an experienced international haulage operator is accused of over-egging it.

We've reached the precipice of stupidity. Where patently thick people spouting utterly meaningless nonsense are now given the same credence as those who actually know what the hell they're talking about and can prove it.

What a laughing stock we are.

I heard that on the way to work as well. My favourite line of thought in all of this is from the people who seem to think that we’re in some kind of hostile war environment. I keep seeing people suggest we should ‘surrender’ to the EU, and even worse that the people who fought in the Second World War didn’t fight for Britain to become a slave of Europe. As a result of this we then get people so driven in believing that we need to leave the EU at all cost and are quite happy shooting rabbits and growing potatoes in their own garden to survive.

Indeed. And people wonder why its getting harder and harder to listen to such absolute, demonstrable nonsense.

I came across a Pro Brexit, Anti EU Facebook group last night and actually found it quite terrifying. The reason I came across it was a (fairly distant) family member shared a post of theirs. Looking deeper the pictures and posters they produce are horrific, full level propaganda. One genuinely suggested that the increase in immigration has changed the genetics of British people for ever!

The fact there are people agreeing with these thoughts and comfortable sharing them is scary.

I’m far from the ‘everyone what voted Brexit is well racist’ point of view, but there are some really nasty views that have used the Brexit argument to try to win support.

People sharing such stuff as described are racists. End of.

There are shadowy organisations spending huge advertising budgets on facebook to promote all this stuff. You have to seriously wonder where the money comes from?

Then you find out Rees-Mogg has earned £7M on one of his investments since the Brexit vote...I get the motivations of the Brexiteer MPs and the like. They are all rich, millionaires elites..mainly white men too.

And you bang on about echo chambers ...

You and Jimbo need a room.

Difficult to call it an echo chamber when you’re shouting into it too!

I like the retro ‘get a room’ comment too. Not heard that since I was 15.

What are your thoughts on the rise of such groups online, and how they appear to be using Brexit as a tool to push their own overtly racist agendas and appeal to a broader demographic? Misinformation on-line is a dangerous thing, right and left (Christ, there’s enough mad left wing conspiracy stuff I see shared every day) People are drawn in by click bait and don’t delve deeper, so these sorts of things thrive. As tango said, the majority of people won’t be affected by it, but it only takes a couple before we’ve a real problem on our hands. I’m not sure how we fix it either - if official channels distance themselves, or directly challenge them, it fits with the ‘elitist people trying to shut down the truth’ narrative.

Without trying to dismiss you as a mere part player, sorry I'm going to do exactly that. My post was pure spite in response to Insanity, who is doing my head in on a daily basis and very recently came up with Racist Daily Mail echo chambers or some such ...
Therefore it was squarely aimed at him.
PS the 'get a room' was deliberately aimed too... It feels like I'm stuck with a fifteen year old wanker who has never grown up.

If you wish me to actually engage with you and answer your points, I will do, but on the strict basis we leave behind Insano's bollocks about rich elite shadowy white men...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Is there a more unpleasant person in this world than Michael Gove? Absolutely reprehensible human being.

You're getting close I've got to admit...

[BWFC_Insane]

Listening to radio 5 live today in absolute despair at the complete and utter nonsense spouted - but then we get to this - a Brexiteer member of the public...

BBC Radio 5 Live
‏@bbc5live
One 5 Live listener has the solution to #Brexit...

"We should stick two fingers up to the EU. We’re Great Britain - we’ve got plenty of rabbit in the fields, we can grow potatoes in the garden, we’ve managed before."

fecking hell. Seriously? Its come to this.

Brexit 2016 - Brexit delivers the land of opportunity - free money for all, NHS funding, unlimited biscuits....
Brexit 2019 - Ahh feck it we'll be fine we've got plenty of rabbits we can hunt...

And my final annoyance was that the BBC - the BB fecking C - report these views with the same credence they give to a haulier who has run a business for a quarter of a decade across EU/non-EU borders explaining the huge issues that a no deal brexit presents to his business. It gets worse though - the view of "well feck the EU we can hunt rabbits in the fields" is not questioned - yet an experienced international haulage operator is accused of over-egging it.

We've reached the precipice of stupidity. Where patently thick people spouting utterly meaningless nonsense are now given the same credence as those who actually know what the hell they're talking about and can prove it.

What a laughing stock we are.

I heard that on the way to work as well. My favourite line of thought in all of this is from the people who seem to think that we’re in some kind of hostile war environment. I keep seeing people suggest we should ‘surrender’ to the EU, and even worse that the people who fought in the Second World War didn’t fight for Britain to become a slave of Europe. As a result of this we then get people so driven in believing that we need to leave the EU at all cost and are quite happy shooting rabbits and growing potatoes in their own garden to survive.

Indeed. And people wonder why its getting harder and harder to listen to such absolute, demonstrable nonsense.

I came across a Pro Brexit, Anti EU Facebook group last night and actually found it quite terrifying. The reason I came across it was a (fairly distant) family member shared a post of theirs. Looking deeper the pictures and posters they produce are horrific, full level propaganda. One genuinely suggested that the increase in immigration has changed the genetics of British people for ever!

The fact there are people agreeing with these thoughts and comfortable sharing them is scary.

I’m far from the ‘everyone what voted Brexit is well racist’ point of view, but there are some really nasty views that have used the Brexit argument to try to win support.

People sharing such stuff as described are racists. End of.

There are shadowy organisations spending huge advertising budgets on facebook to promote all this stuff. You have to seriously wonder where the money comes from?

Then you find out Rees-Mogg has earned £7M on one of his investments since the Brexit vote...I get the motivations of the Brexiteer MPs and the like. They are all rich, millionaires elites..mainly white men too.

And you bang on about echo chambers ...

You and Jimbo need a room.

Difficult to call it an echo chamber when you’re shouting into it too!

I like the retro ‘get a room’ comment too. Not heard that since I was 15.

What are your thoughts on the rise of such groups online, and how they appear to be using Brexit as a tool to push their own overtly racist agendas and appeal to a broader demographic? Misinformation on-line is a dangerous thing, right and left (Christ, there’s enough mad left wing conspiracy stuff I see shared every day) People are drawn in by click bait and don’t delve deeper, so these sorts of things thrive. As tango said, the majority of people won’t be affected by it, but it only takes a couple before we’ve a real problem on our hands. I’m not sure how we fix it either - if official channels distance themselves, or directly challenge them, it fits with the ‘elitist people trying to shut down the truth’ narrative.

Without trying to dismiss you as a mere part player, sorry I'm going to do exactly that. My post was pure spite in response to Insanity, who is doing my head in on a daily basis and very recently came up with Racist Daily Mail echo chambers or some such ...
Therefore it was squarely aimed at him.
PS the 'get a room' was deliberately aimed too... It feels like I'm stuck with a fifteen year old wanker who has never grown up.

If you wish me to actually engage with you and answer your points, I will do, but on the strict basis we leave behind Insano's bollocks about rich elite shadowy white men...

Can you hear yourself? You think there is a conspiracy in operation to try and stop Brexit....even though no facts support that.

Yet we know that the money spent by the leave campaign broke the law...we know who and what Arron Banks - one of the biggest financial supporters of Brexit.

You don't seem to like someone with opposing views - your rants do not annoy me. I enjoy engaging in a debate.

Yet you seem overly irked by opposing views. The idea of Brexit being manipulated by rich shadowy elite men is hardly new and not a view that hasn't been expressed elsewhere.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Listening to radio 5 live today in absolute despair at the complete and utter nonsense spouted - but then we get to this - a Brexiteer member of the public...

BBC Radio 5 Live
‏@bbc5live
One 5 Live listener has the solution to #Brexit...

"We should stick two fingers up to the EU. We’re Great Britain - we’ve got plenty of rabbit in the fields, we can grow potatoes in the garden, we’ve managed before."

fecking hell. Seriously? Its come to this.

Brexit 2016 - Brexit delivers the land of opportunity - free money for all, NHS funding, unlimited biscuits....
Brexit 2019 - Ahh feck it we'll be fine we've got plenty of rabbits we can hunt...

And my final annoyance was that the BBC - the BB fecking C - report these views with the same credence they give to a haulier who has run a business for a quarter of a decade across EU/non-EU borders explaining the huge issues that a no deal brexit presents to his business. It gets worse though - the view of "well feck the EU we can hunt rabbits in the fields" is not questioned - yet an experienced international haulage operator is accused of over-egging it.

We've reached the precipice of stupidity. Where patently thick people spouting utterly meaningless nonsense are now given the same credence as those who actually know what the hell they're talking about and can prove it.

What a laughing stock we are.

I heard that on the way to work as well. My favourite line of thought in all of this is from the people who seem to think that we’re in some kind of hostile war environment. I keep seeing people suggest we should ‘surrender’ to the EU, and even worse that the people who fought in the Second World War didn’t fight for Britain to become a slave of Europe. As a result of this we then get people so driven in believing that we need to leave the EU at all cost and are quite happy shooting rabbits and growing potatoes in their own garden to survive.

Indeed. And people wonder why its getting harder and harder to listen to such absolute, demonstrable nonsense.

I came across a Pro Brexit, Anti EU Facebook group last night and actually found it quite terrifying. The reason I came across it was a (fairly distant) family member shared a post of theirs. Looking deeper the pictures and posters they produce are horrific, full level propaganda. One genuinely suggested that the increase in immigration has changed the genetics of British people for ever!

The fact there are people agreeing with these thoughts and comfortable sharing them is scary.

I’m far from the ‘everyone what voted Brexit is well racist’ point of view, but there are some really nasty views that have used the Brexit argument to try to win support.

People sharing such stuff as described are racists. End of.

There are shadowy organisations spending huge advertising budgets on facebook to promote all this stuff. You have to seriously wonder where the money comes from?

Then you find out Rees-Mogg has earned £7M on one of his investments since the Brexit vote...I get the motivations of the Brexiteer MPs and the like. They are all rich, millionaires elites..mainly white men too.

And you bang on about echo chambers ...

You and Jimbo need a room.

Difficult to call it an echo chamber when you’re shouting into it too!

I like the retro ‘get a room’ comment too. Not heard that since I was 15.

What are your thoughts on the rise of such groups online, and how they appear to be using Brexit as a tool to push their own overtly racist agendas and appeal to a broader demographic? Misinformation on-line is a dangerous thing, right and left (Christ, there’s enough mad left wing conspiracy stuff I see shared every day) People are drawn in by click bait and don’t delve deeper, so these sorts of things thrive. As tango said, the majority of people won’t be affected by it, but it only takes a couple before we’ve a real problem on our hands. I’m not sure how we fix it either - if official channels distance themselves, or directly challenge them, it fits with the ‘elitist people trying to shut down the truth’ narrative.

Without trying to dismiss you as a mere part player, sorry I'm going to do exactly that. My post was pure spite in response to Insanity, who is doing my head in on a daily basis and very recently came up with Racist Daily Mail echo chambers or some such ...
Therefore it was squarely aimed at him.
PS the 'get a room' was deliberately aimed too... It feels like I'm stuck with a fifteen year old wanker who has never grown up.

If you wish me to actually engage with you and answer your points, I will do, but on the strict basis we leave behind Insano's bollocks about rich elite shadowy white men...

Can you hear yourself? You think there is a conspiracy in operation to try and stop Brexit....even though no facts support that.

Yet we know that the money spent by the leave campaign broke the law...we know who and what Arron Banks - one of the biggest financial supporters of Brexit.

You don't seem to like someone with opposing views - your rants do not annoy me. I enjoy engaging in a debate.

Yet you seem overly irked by opposing views. The idea of Brexit being manipulated by rich shadowy elite men is hardly new and not a view that hasn't been expressed elsewhere.

...you seem to have missed the "white" out of there.
Why? Embarrassment?

[BWFC_Insane]

Listening to radio 5 live today in absolute despair at the complete and utter nonsense spouted - but then we get to this - a Brexiteer member of the public...

[quote]BBC Radio 5 Live
‏@bbc5live
One 5 Live listener has the solution to #Brexit...

"We should stick two fingers up to the EU. We’re Great Britain - we’ve got plenty of rabbit in the fields, we can grow potatoes in the garden, we’ve managed before."

fecking hell. Seriously? Its come to this.

Brexit 2016 - Brexit delivers the land of opportunity - free money for all, NHS funding, unlimited biscuits....
Brexit 2019 - Ahh feck it we'll be fine we've got plenty of rabbits we can hunt...

And my final annoyance was that the BBC - the BB fecking C - report these views with the same credence they give to a haulier who has run a business for a quarter of a decade across EU/non-EU borders explaining the huge issues that a no deal brexit presents to his business. It gets worse though - the view of "well feck the EU we can hunt rabbits in the fields" is not questioned - yet an experienced international haulage operator is accused of over-egging it.

We've reached the precipice of stupidity. Where patently thick people spouting utterly meaningless nonsense are now given the same credence as those who actually know what the hell they're talking about and can prove it.

What a laughing stock we are.

I heard that on the way to work as well. My favourite line of thought in all of this is from the people who seem to think that we’re in some kind of hostile war environment. I keep seeing people suggest we should ‘surrender’ to the EU, and even worse that the people who fought in the Second World War didn’t fight for Britain to become a slave of Europe. As a result of this we then get people so driven in believing that we need to leave the EU at all cost and are quite happy shooting rabbits and growing potatoes in their own garden to survive.

Indeed. And people wonder why its getting harder and harder to listen to such absolute, demonstrable nonsense.

I came across a Pro Brexit, Anti EU Facebook group last night and actually found it quite terrifying. The reason I came across it was a (fairly distant) family member shared a post of theirs. Looking deeper the pictures and posters they produce are horrific, full level propaganda. One genuinely suggested that the increase in immigration has changed the genetics of British people for ever!

The fact there are people agreeing with these thoughts and comfortable sharing them is scary.

I’m far from the ‘everyone what voted Brexit is well racist’ point of view, but there are some really nasty views that have used the Brexit argument to try to win support.

People sharing such stuff as described are racists. End of.

There are shadowy organisations spending huge advertising budgets on facebook to promote all this stuff. You have to seriously wonder where the money comes from?

Then you find out Rees-Mogg has earned £7M on one of his investments since the Brexit vote...I get the motivations of the Brexiteer MPs and the like. They are all rich, millionaires elites..mainly white men too.

And you bang on about echo chambers ...

You and Jimbo need a room.

Difficult to call it an echo chamber when you’re shouting into it too!

I like the retro ‘get a room’ comment too. Not heard that since I was 15.

What are your thoughts on the rise of such groups online, and how they appear to be using Brexit as a tool to push their own overtly racist agendas and appeal to a broader demographic? Misinformation on-line is a dangerous thing, right and left (Christ, there’s enough mad left wing conspiracy stuff I see shared every day) People are drawn in by click bait and don’t delve deeper, so these sorts of things thrive. As tango said, the majority of people won’t be affected by it, but it only takes a couple before we’ve a real problem on our hands. I’m not sure how we fix it either - if official channels distance themselves, or directly challenge them, it fits with the ‘elitist people trying to shut down the truth’ narrative.

Without trying to dismiss you as a mere part player, sorry I'm going to do exactly that. My post was pure spite in response to Insanity, who is doing my head in on a daily basis and very recently came up with Racist Daily Mail echo chambers or some such ...
Therefore it was squarely aimed at him.
PS the 'get a room' was deliberately aimed too... It feels like I'm stuck with a fifteen year old wanker who has never grown up.

If you wish me to actually engage with you and answer your points, I will do, but on the strict basis we leave behind Insano's bollocks about rich elite shadowy white men...

Can you hear yourself? You think there is a conspiracy in operation to try and stop Brexit....even though no facts support that.

Yet we know that the money spent by the leave campaign broke the law...we know who and what Arron Banks - one of the biggest financial supporters of Brexit.

You don't seem to like someone with opposing views - your rants do not annoy me. I enjoy engaging in a debate.

Yet you seem overly irked by opposing views. The idea of Brexit being manipulated by rich shadowy elite men is hardly new and not a view that hasn't been expressed elsewhere.

...you seem to have missed the "white" out of there.
Why? Embarrassment?
[/quote]

The are mainly middle aged white men. Why would I be embarrassed by saying that? The ERG for example - a shadowy political organisation comprised of, in the main, middle aged white, wealthy men.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And while we are at it, maybe you could answer this, as you are so keen on debate...

Brexit - driven by shadowy elite rich white men trying to profit from the nation's misfortune.

You've lost the fxcking plot.

Is this a conspiracy theory?
Can I join, only I've got questions:
Do you have to be both shadowy and elite, or is just one option sufficient?
Are shadowy elite white rich women ineligible?
Why, as a person of colour, but otherwise rich and shadowy can't I join in the fascist fun?
Are up front poor Nazis not invited to the party???

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Or. Why can't Brexit be driven by 52% of the population. Black, white, brown, yellow, vomit coloured people both rich and poor, all mostly shadowy some showy, very few of them of the elite???

[Lost Leopard Spot]

...do you not see why you are such a tosser?

[BWFC_Insane]

Or. Why can't Brexit be driven by 52% of the population. Black, white, brown, yellow, vomit coloured people both rich and poor, all mostly shadowy some showy, very few of them of the elite???

Because political campaigns are always backed by big financiers...they aren't driven organically by the public often...and certainly were not in this case.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Or. Why can't Brexit be driven by 52% of the population. Black, white, brown, yellow, vomit coloured people both rich and poor, all mostly shadowy some showy, very few of them of the elite???

Because political campaigns are always backed by big financiers...they aren't driven organically by the public often...and certainly were not in this case.

And you know this because???
How many petitions have you put into parliament?
How many letters have you written to your MP?
Why are you such a fxcking expert on why 52% of the public voted?

[BWFC_Insane]

Or. Why can't Brexit be driven by 52% of the population. Black, white, brown, yellow, vomit coloured people both rich and poor, all mostly shadowy some showy, very few of them of the elite???

Because political campaigns are always backed by big financiers...they aren't driven organically by the public often...and certainly were not in this case.

And you know this because???
How many petitions have you put into parliament?
How many letters have you written to your MP?
Why are you such a fxcking expert on why 52% of the public voted?

This isn't about WHY people voted. But simply about how the campaign was run and how the 52% were convinced to vote for Brexit.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Or. Why can't Brexit be driven by 52% of the population. Black, white, brown, yellow, vomit coloured people both rich and poor, all mostly shadowy some showy, very few of them of the elite???

Because political campaigns are always backed by big financiers...they aren't driven organically by the public often...and certainly were not in this case.

And you know this because???
How many petitions have you put into parliament?
How many letters have you written to your MP?
Why are you such a fxcking expert on why 52% of the public voted?

This isn't about WHY people voted. But simply about how the campaign was run and how the 52% were convinced to vote for Brexit.

Hence my questions!!!
I've been petitioning parliament and my MP for decades about the creeping insidious supra-national extension of a democratically elected trade agreement... How do you know that a good number of other people (no matter if they were celebrity ordinary brown women or not) weren't doing the same?
What can You possibly know about why We voted, or how we were convinced!? Your Arrogance is Outstanding.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And just to understand your open attitude to democracy, why, on this forum, are you hidden?
Is that because you are a shadowy elite white rich male with delusions of integrity?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And... Before you bang on anyfxckingmore can I point out that two years ago 498 vs 114 Members of fxckinParliament voted to trigger Article 50.
Amongst those 498 there were at least twenty women of colour, and at least one black woman strangely elitist but claiming not to be, possibly rich, and almost certainly not
a man..

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 70441.html

How racist can I be with Dianne Abbott on my side?

[TANGODANCER]

This isn't about WHY people voted. But simply about how the campaign was run and how the 52% were convinced to vote for Brexit.

Heh? But you just contradicted yourself! You say it isn't about why people voted, then you say it's because they were convinced to? What about the ones that didn't vote for Brexit; were they the chosen ones or something? Can't you just accept that rightly or wrongly, the people did vote, and Brexit won? What's so hard about that apart from the fact that you don't agree?

[jimbo]

LOL hahahaha
Just seen the actual wording for tonight's vote:
"That this House declines to approve leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship on 29 March 2019; and notes that leaving without a deal remains the default in UK and EU law unless this House and the EU ratify an agreement"

The sneaky Fxcker...

That'll be the shadowy white rich elite men's doing...

Seems as though Caroline Spellman noticed that last line too......

[Bruce Rioja]

Perhaps one of you could be so good as to explain something to me?
MPs have voted by 312 to 308 to take no deal off table forever.
Only, as far as I can see, if we don't agree a Brexit deal then shirley no deal remains the de facto position, no?

[Enoch]

Perhaps one of you could be so good as to explain something to me?
MPs have voted by 312 to 308 to take no deal off table forever.
Only, as far as I can see, if we don't agree a Brexit deal then shirley no deal remains the de facto position, no?

Perceptive as ever Mr Rioja.

The UK media has just spent far too long bigging up a meaningless piece of panto.

As we were.

[jimbo]

Does May’s deal now get a third go in the Commons? Now ‘no deal’ has clearly been shown to be unpopular, do the DUP and ERG rally behind May as their best option to get a Brexit, rather than risk election or second referendum?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Perhaps one of you could be so good as to explain something to me?
MPs have voted by 312 to 308 to take no deal off table forever.
Only, as far as I can see, if we don't agree a Brexit deal then shirley no deal remains the de facto position, no?

Yes but, no but... If No Deal is off the table forever and no deal is forthcoming, then we never leave.
Think Eagles. Think "you can check out any time you like but you can never leave..."