Today I'm happy about......

[TANGODANCER]

Do you honestly think that until Christianity came along thousands of years worth of people lived their lives without a sense of right and wrong?

Now where did I say that exactly? The Ten Commandments were Old Testaments, not New. They were, if you will, a kick up the immoral arse that folk had developed from laziness and carelessness in their lives. It wasn't that they had never had morals, they just forgot the importance of them. Christianity is but a phase and Jesus sent to be an example of just that. His life and death were to atone for all that had gone before him. As for morality/right and wrong, if people had all that sorted out back in time,they had some very odd ideas of what it was all about. We're still working on some of it today, ie people no longer think it's okay to empty piss-pots out of bedroom windows or send young kids up chimneys.

My views on the Bible might surprise you and I even agree with Thebish, that a lot of it I find baffling, innexplainable and totally (outside its basic concepts on morality and belief in God) wildly out-dated and meaningless in a world two thousand years after Jesus. At least the New Testament can be related to, the Old is just that, old. It's like an eighteenth century road atlas, if you will, we still observe the rules of the road and basic manners, and places are still where they were (in the main) but guys trotting along the road with blazing torches to show the way or changing horses every twenty miles died back a ways. They, like huge chunks of the Bible, no longer apply or are relevant to modern life. I actually give God credit for thinking we may be able to figure out some things for ourselves using the brains he blessed us with. The Bible is a history book, a basic guide to good practise and a focal point, but like Mrs Beeston's Cookbook, only parts of it still apply in the 21st century.

We'll never agree on God, so no point arguing about that, but if he suddenly appeared and showed proof of his existence, all the churches would become uselessly rich from donations and be changed back from the bingo halls and antique markets they've now become. Then again, that's what religion and belief without proof are all about. You have a choice.

[wigan white]

This thread isn't so happy anymore

[Worthy4England]

This thread isn't so happy anymore

We should move it along to "the role of beards in religion"...

That's always a good 'un.

[wigan white]

This thread isn't so happy anymore

We should move it along to "the role of beards in religion"...

That's always a good 'un.

...........

[TANGODANCER]

This thread isn't so happy anymore

We should move it along to "the role of beards in religion"...That's always a good 'un.

And a rather dodgy one too..

[Prufrock]

Do you honestly think that until Christianity came along thousands of years worth of people lived their lives without a sense of right and wrong?

Now where did I say that exactly? The Ten Commandments were Old Testaments, not New. They were, if you will, a kick up the immoral arse that folk had developed from laziness and carelessness in their lives. It wasn't that they had never had morals, they just forgot the importance of them. Christianity is but a phase and Jesus sent to be an example of just that. His life and death were to atone for all that had gone before him. As for morality/right and wrong, if people had all that sorted out back in time,they had some very odd ideas of what it was all about. We're still working on some of it today, ie people no longer think it's okay to empty piss-pots out of bedroom windows or send young kids up chimneys.

My views on the Bible might surprise you and I even agree with Thebish, that a lot of it I find baffling, innexplainable and totally (outside its basic concepts on morality and belief in God) wildly out-dated and meaningless in a world two thousand years after Jesus. At least the New Testament can be related to, the Old is just that, old. It's like an eighteenth century road atlas, if you will, we still observe the rules of the road and basic manners, and places are still where they were (in the main) but guys trotting along the road with blazing torches to show the way or changing horses every twenty miles died back a ways. They, like huge chunks of the Bible, no longer apply or are relevant to modern life. I actually give God credit for thinking we may be able to figure out some things for ourselves using the brains he blessed us with. The Bible is a history book, a basic guide to good practise and a focal point, but like Mrs Beeston's Cookbook, only parts of it still apply in the 21st century.

We'll never agree on God, so no point arguing about that, but if he suddenly appeared and showed proof of his existence, all the churches would become uselessly rich from donations and be changed back from the bingo halls and antique markets they've now become. Then again, that's what religion and belief without proof are all about. You have a choice.

Okay, my mistake.

The question: How do/did they learn it then, without recourse to the Ten Commandments, and why were said Commandments instituted in the first place?

Do you honestly think that until Judaism came along thousands of years worth of people lived their lives without a sense of right and wrong ?

As I say, no dispute that the Bible professes to teach on morality. That doesn't mean it invented it, or that it's the only source of it. Religion likes to focus itself on morality, but they are distinct, and it's perfectly possible to have morality without religion.

I'm going to continue being quite happy to reject any half-baked nonsense about needing religion for morality. This is clearly nonsense

[Prufrock]

This thread isn't so happy anymore

We should move it along to "the role of beards in religion"...

That's always a good 'un.

Christianity is undoubtedly a barbaric religion...

[LeverEnd]

Tres bien Monsieur!

[TANGODANCER]

^
Well, since you have a habit of dismissing as nonsense anything you don't agree with,there you go. You can ignore my point about the Commandments being a reminder and I was happy enough to go back a couple of thousand years or so. If that won't do, God spoke to Adam and Eve about good and evil. Is that morality and religion together and is that early enough for you? Then again, you don't believe in that nonsense anyway so nothing to worry about.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Do you honestly think that until Christianity came along thousands of years worth of people lived their lives without a sense of right and wrong?

Now where did I say that exactly? The Ten Commandments were Old Testaments, not New. They were, if you will, a kick up the immoral arse that folk had developed from laziness and carelessness in their lives. It wasn't that they had never had morals, they just forgot the importance of them. Christianity is but a phase and Jesus sent to be an example of just that. His life and death were to atone for all that had gone before him. As for morality/right and wrong, if people had all that sorted out back in time,they had some very odd ideas of what it was all about. We're still working on some of it today, ie people no longer think it's okay to empty piss-pots out of bedroom windows or send young kids up chimneys.

My views on the Bible might surprise you and I even agree with Thebish, that a lot of it I find baffling, innexplainable and totally (outside its basic concepts on morality and belief in God) wildly out-dated and meaningless in a world two thousand years after Jesus. At least the New Testament can be related to, the Old is just that, old. It's like an eighteenth century road atlas, if you will, we still observe the rules of the road and basic manners, and places are still where they were (in the main) but guys trotting along the road with blazing torches to show the way or changing horses every twenty miles died back a ways. They, like huge chunks of the Bible, no longer apply or are relevant to modern life. I actually give God credit for thinking we may be able to figure out some things for ourselves using the brains he blessed us with. The Bible is a history book, a basic guide to good practise and a focal point, but like Mrs Beeston's Cookbook, only parts of it still apply in the 21st century.

We'll never agree on God, so no point arguing about that, but if he suddenly appeared and showed proof of his existence, all the churches would become uselessly rich from donations and be changed back from the bingo halls and antique markets they've now become. Then again, that's what religion and belief without proof are all about. You have a choice.

Okay, my mistake.

The question: How do/did they learn it then, without recourse to the Ten Commandments, and why were said Commandments instituted in the first place?

Do you honestly think that until Judaism came along thousands of years worth of people lived their lives without a sense of right and wrong ?

As I say, no dispute that the Bible professes to teach on morality. That doesn't mean it invented it, or that it's the only source of it. Religion likes to focus itself on morality, but they are distinct, and it's perfectly possible to have morality without religion.

I'm going to continue being quite happy to reject any half-baked nonsense about needing religion for morality. This is clearly nonsense

Although there is no date for the 10 Commandments it seems probable that the Hammurabic Code predated them, and was certainly more practical. The code of Ur-Nammu was certainly earlier.

[wigan white]

Do you honestly think that until Christianity came along thousands of years worth of people lived their lives without a sense of right and wrong?

Now where did I say that exactly? The Ten Commandments were Old Testaments, not New. They were, if you will, a kick up the immoral arse that folk had developed from laziness and carelessness in their lives. It wasn't that they had never had morals, they just forgot the importance of them. Christianity is but a phase and Jesus sent to be an example of just that. His life and death were to atone for all that had gone before him. As for morality/right and wrong, if people had all that sorted out back in time,they had some very odd ideas of what it was all about. We're still working on some of it today, ie people no longer think it's okay to empty piss-pots out of bedroom windows or send young kids up chimneys.

My views on the Bible might surprise you and I even agree with Thebish, that a lot of it I find baffling, innexplainable and totally (outside its basic concepts on morality and belief in God) wildly out-dated and meaningless in a world two thousand years after Jesus. At least the New Testament can be related to, the Old is just that, old. It's like an eighteenth century road atlas, if you will, we still observe the rules of the road and basic manners, and places are still where they were (in the main) but guys trotting along the road with blazing torches to show the way or changing horses every twenty miles died back a ways. They, like huge chunks of the Bible, no longer apply or are relevant to modern life. I actually give God credit for thinking we may be able to figure out some things for ourselves using the brains he blessed us with. The Bible is a history book, a basic guide to good practise and a focal point, but like Mrs Beeston's Cookbook, only parts of it still apply in the 21st century.

We'll never agree on God, so no point arguing about that, but if he suddenly appeared and showed proof of his existence, all the churches would become uselessly rich from donations and be changed back from the bingo halls and antique markets they've now become. Then again, that's what religion and belief without proof are all about. You have a choice.

Okay, my mistake.

The question: How do/did they learn it then, without recourse to the Ten Commandments, and why were said Commandments instituted in the first place?

Do you honestly think that until Judaism came along thousands of years worth of people lived their lives without a sense of right and wrong ?

As I say, no dispute that the Bible professes to teach on morality. That doesn't mean it invented it, or that it's the only source of it. Religion likes to focus itself on morality, but they are distinct, and it's perfectly possible to have morality without religion.

I'm going to continue being quite happy to reject any half-baked nonsense about needing religion for morality. This is clearly nonsense

Although there is no date for the 10 Commandments it seems probable that the Hammurabic Code predated them, and was certainly more practical. The code of Ur-Nammu was certainly earlier.

Isn't that what Vic Reeves used to say in "Shooting Stars"???

[thebish]

God spoke to Adam and Eve about good and evil.

did he?? what exactly did he say?

[boltonboris]

God spoke to Adam and Eve about good and evil.

did he?? what exactly did he say?

"oi you fackin slaaaag, cavva ap ya cant wiv that leaf there"

[Gary the Enfield]

God spoke to Adam and Eve about good and evil.

did he?? what exactly did he say?

"oi you fackin slaaaag, cavva ap ya cant wiv that leaf there"

This is God?

[TANGODANCER]

God spoke to Adam and Eve about good and evil.

did he?? what exactly did he say?

"Genesis, 3-22": And the Lord God said "Behold the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil,and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever"

[thebish]

God spoke to Adam and Eve about good and evil.

did he?? what exactly did he say?

"Genesis, 3-22": And the Lord God said "Behold the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil,and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever"

indeed... on the face of it, the story is about them eating from the tree so that they would have the knowledge of good and evil - and God doesn't want them to have that - he banishes them for it... they are punished for acquiring knowledge about good and evil.

nowhere does God teach or speak to Adam and Eve about good and evil - or morality - he merely punishes them quite severely for attaining that knowledge against his will.

[bwfcdan94]

Today I am happy that work is going well and there are at least 2 people ahead of me in the office idiot stakes, I have kept a few of my opinions to myself that seems to have stood me in good stead.

[TANGODANCER]

nowhere does God teach or speak to Adam and Eve about good and evil - or morality - he merely punishes them quite severely for attaining that knowledge against his will.

As you wish. He told them off and punished them severely but didn't speak about it? That's pretty clever. I didn't at any point say he taught or gave lessons about anything. The point was simply to illustrate the existence of the difference in the very earliest mention known to man of right and wrong, and that was in religion. I really have nothing more to add.

[thebish]

nowhere does God teach or speak to Adam and Eve about good and evil - or morality - he merely punishes them quite severely for attaining that knowledge against his will.

As you wish. He told them off and punished them severely but didn't speak about it? That's pretty clever. I didn't at any point say he taught or gave lessons about anything. The point was simply to illustrate the existence of the difference in the very earliest mention known to man of right and wrong, and that was in religion. I really have nothing more to add.

your original point was that nobody knew anything about morality until Moses popped up with the ten commandments...

leaving aside the fact that Moses and Adam and eve were all fictional characters... half of the ten commandments are nothing to do with morality at all anyway - they are about God demanding that people respect him and don't have any other gods in their locker!

then he says he will punish your grandchildren and great grandchildren for the things you do wrong...

morality? my hairy arse!!

[Hoboh]

nowhere does God teach or speak to Adam and Eve about good and evil - or morality - he merely punishes them quite severely for attaining that knowledge against his will.

As you wish. He told them off and punished them severely but didn't speak about it? That's pretty clever. I didn't at any point say he taught or gave lessons about anything. The point was simply to illustrate the existence of the difference in the very earliest mention known to man of right and wrong, and that was in religion. I really have nothing more to add.

your original point was that nobody knew anything about morality until Moses popped up with the ten commandments...

leaving aside the fact that Moses and Adam and eve were all fictional characters... half of the ten commandments are nothing to do with morality at all anyway - they are about God demanding that people respect him and don't have any other gods in their locker!

then he says he will punish your grandchildren and great grandchildren for the things you do wrong...

morality? my hairy arse!!

Too much info thank you!