creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

[Worthy4England]

Just can’t see how England can win this. Without the weather they are well placed after a good day. But assuming there are only two more days plus change…England tomorrow have to take 2 wickets and then score at such a rate that by close of play they are well in excess of the Aussie score. So say 450 in a day.

Then bowl them out cheaply.

Just too big an ask. Bloody Manchester and the weather.

TBF weather sometime not noted for their accuracy, so sure they'll look at it, not sure I'd be doing anything too stupid batting. A subpar score and the weather shifting 24 hours the other way wouldn't be great...

[BWFC_Insane]

Just can’t see how England can win this. Without the weather they are well placed after a good day. But assuming there are only two more days plus change…England tomorrow have to take 2 wickets and then score at such a rate that by close of play they are well in excess of the Aussie score. So say 450 in a day.

Then bowl them out cheaply.

Just too big an ask. Bloody Manchester and the weather.

TBF weather sometime not noted for their accuracy, so sure they'll look at it, not sure I'd be doing anything too stupid batting. A subpar score and the weather shifting 24 hours the other way wouldn't be great...

Listened to the radio after the days play and they all said they feel England are going to go absolutely hell for leather batting tomorrow. I think they will too.

Could be 100 all out or score at 6 an over.

Either way unless that weekend weather is completely wrong and hard to see that given even if it shifted a day either way it wouldn’t help…..it’s a big old ask.

[Prufrock]

Nothing you can do about it though. Sure they'll be positive tomorrow, but hopefully not daft. You're not feeling to win in 2.5 days now, so make sure you do enough to win as quickly as you can and hope for the best.

To change tack somewhat, why do they even bother with the front on view before going to ultra edge?! They almost always still go to ultra edge even when there's miles between bat and ball and it's never even crossed the line. Surely the time saved for the one in a hundred they spot is massively outweighed by all the others.

[BWFC_Insane]

^^Because it takes time to load ultra edge and Hawkeye so they aren’t instantly available and front on view can occasionally show a clear contact with the bay rendering waiting further not necessary. But you might as well look at it whilst other two are loading.

[Prufrock]

Ah ok, that would make sense.

I know there's quite often a pause while they're "waiting for ultra edge" but always assumed that was an issue with switching the feed over rather than having it ready full stop.

[Worthy4England]

Nothing you can do about it though. Sure they'll be positive tomorrow, but hopefully not daft. You're not feeling to win in 2.5 days now, so make sure you do enough to win as quickly as you can and hope for the best.

To change tack somewhat, why do they even bother with the front on view before going to ultra edge?! They almost always still go to ultra edge even when there's miles between bat and ball and it's never even crossed the line. Surely the time saved for the one in a hundred they spot is massively outweighed by all the others.

More to do with process. The Laws lay out the order of checks for reviews. (So they always check whether it's a legal ball first, coz if it isn't nothing else matters) There is radio dialogue between the on and off field umpires, it's not purely a "tech driven decision." An appeal isn't against a single form of dismissal, by which I don't mean the fielders might not think "it's an edge" or "it's LBW" but the question that's being asked is actually "is the player out." When the on-field refers the decision to the third, they say what mode of dismissal they've given their decision against, but that doesn't preclude another mode of dismissal. LBW and Caught off an edge are often both in play at the same time, so they look to see if they can clearly spot what it's hit first, front on, to see if they can shelve one and narrow down what their next stop should be. They communicate back to onfield if a different mode of dismissal might have come into play, which is why you sometimes hear them saying " It's pad first Dickie, checking for LBW" They'd look a bit dumb if they went straight to ultra, only to find it flicked the pad first.

There are numerous papers legitimately questioning the accuracy of the tech due to frame rates and the ability to accurately plot the future path, when I'm sure we've all seen two balls hit one of the cracks and one rears, the other dies (you probably spot this best when plonked in at short leg though wouldn't advocate spending too long contemplating it until the ball's headed back past mid-wicket). There are also some howlers where players have been bowled and the tech shows the ball whistling over the top.

I think overall the tech helps, but it's not infallible.

[Worthy4England]

Just can’t see how England can win this. Without the weather they are well placed after a good day. But assuming there are only two more days plus change…England tomorrow have to take 2 wickets and then score at such a rate that by close of play they are well in excess of the Aussie score. So say 450 in a day.

Then bowl them out cheaply.

Just too big an ask. Bloody Manchester and the weather.

TBF weather sometime not noted for their accuracy, so sure they'll look at it, not sure I'd be doing anything too stupid batting. A subpar score and the weather shifting 24 hours the other way wouldn't be great...

Listened to the radio after the days play and they all said they feel England are going to go absolutely hell for leather batting tomorrow. I think they will too.

Could be 100 all out or score at 6 an over.

Either way unless that weekend weather is completely wrong and hard to see that given even if it shifted a day either way it wouldn’t help…..it’s a big old ask.

I'm sure they'll look to attack. That's fine. 10 dumb wickets for 100 isn't. That's just stupid.

[Prufrock]

Nothing you can do about it though. Sure they'll be positive tomorrow, but hopefully not daft. You're not feeling to win in 2.5 days now, so make sure you do enough to win as quickly as you can and hope for the best.

To change tack somewhat, why do they even bother with the front on view before going to ultra edge?! They almost always still go to ultra edge even when there's miles between bat and ball and it's never even crossed the line. Surely the time saved for the one in a hundred they spot is massively outweighed by all the others.

More to do with process. The Laws lay out the order of checks for reviews. (So they always check whether it's a legal ball first, coz if it isn't nothing else matters) There is radio dialogue between the on and off field umpires, it's not purely a "tech driven decision." An appeal isn't against a single form of dismissal, by which I don't mean the fielders might not think "it's an edge" or "it's LBW" but the question that's being asked is actually "is the player out." When the on-field refers the decision to the third, they say what mode of dismissal they've given their decision against, but that doesn't preclude another mode of dismissal. LBW and Caught off an edge are often both in play at the same time, so they look to see if they can clearly spot what it's hit first, front on, to see if they can shelve one and narrow down what their next stop should be. They communicate back to onfield if a different mode of dismissal might have come into play, which is why you sometimes hear them saying " It's pad first Dickie, checking for LBW" They'd look a bit dumb if they went straight to ultra, only to find it flicked the pad first.

There are numerous papers legitimately questioning the accuracy of the tech due to frame rates and the ability to accurately plot the future path, when I'm sure we've all seen two balls hit one of the cracks and one rears, the other dies (you probably spot this best when plonked in at short leg though wouldn't advocate spending too long contemplating it until the ball's headed back past mid-wicket). There are also some howlers where players have been bowled and the tech shows the ball whistling over the top.

I think overall the tech helps, but it's not infallible.

Ta, though when they show ultra-edge on TV they show it along side the front on!

The rest reminds of Tim Paine in the last Ashes over here, England appealed, given out LBW. Paine reviewed giving it "bat first" to which the an England player replied they'd caught it bat pad anyway

As you say, they reviewed the LB first (assume on the basis of the on field) saw it was bat first, but then out caught.

Can't remember if they got to keep the review or not (that's one for the nerds, I'd assume not).

[TANGODANCER]

Amongst all the high tec computerised rules that govern modern cricket, where have all the older order disappeared to? What happened to donkey-droppers (although I might have heard that one mentioned), out caught one-handed off a nearby wall, six and out if you whacked the ball into somebody's back yard, and the most dreaded of all, the "peg-leg", whereby the batsman had to receive strike with the bat upside down, hitting the "corky"with the handle..well,........... I declare...

[Prufrock]

You say that TD, but after the Bairstow controversy at Lord's, Broad spent his innings loudly shouting "in" when he grounded his bat, thereby protecting his wicket

[Worthy4England]

Yay. One for James...

[BWFC_Insane]

Forecast has got worse. Saturday and Sunday look more or less like wipeouts.

Rain tomorrow morning now too.

England to stay in the ashes have to win the game by close of play tomorrow. That simple. Not sure how but they are going to have to go at 6 an over or more today.

[Worthy4England]

I'd rather not lose the Ashes by dint of a 2-2 draw, than go into the last test 3-1 down. Attacking? Yes. Stupid? No.

[Prufrock]

Oooof. Seen that no ball several times and I can't make my mind up. As close as it gets. Time is everything in this, can't afford to be giving them an extra 15 minutes.

[Worthy4England]

Oooof. Seen that no ball several times and I can't make my mind up. As close as it gets. Time is everything in this, can't afford to be giving them an extra 15 minutes.

Yeah - it looked pretty close. More harm done than we'd have liked - but over for us. Great 5 for, for Woakes.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'd rather not lose the Ashes by dint of a 2-2 draw, than go into the last test 3-1 down. Attacking? Yes. Stupid? No.

You either win the ashes or you don’t. Couldn’t care less what the score is.

England need to smash them round the park now. Need to score well in excess of 400 by close of play today. Otherwise Aussies have retained them anyway.

Aussies will be delighted. They just wanted to bat through yesterday and then got an extra half hour bonus today. They will feel the urn is safe.

[Prufrock]

Nah there's definitely a difference between "losing" them and them retaining them after a drawn series.

[BWFC_Insane]

Nah there's definitely a difference between "losing" them and them retaining them after a drawn series.

Not in my view. You either win or you don’t.

Stokes and this team will rightly go for it. They’ve just not left themselves enough time sadly.

[Worthy4England]

Nah there's definitely a difference between "losing" them and them retaining them after a drawn series.

Indeed.

[Worthy4England]

Nah there's definitely a difference between "losing" them and them retaining them after a drawn series.

Not in my view. You either win or you don’t.

Stokes and this team will rightly go for it. They’ve just not left themselves enough time sadly.

I think you're on drugs. There are three possible results, one of which includes neither winning nor losing them. These apply whether we do that at 2 an over or 10 an over. Irrespective of what your view is, the outcomes of a series are win, lose or draw. If you already had the Urn then that's formally called "retained the Ashes" not "Won the Ashes"...