The Great Art Debate

[malcd1]

Obviously people's taste in art differs. Inevitably, and that's good. Perhaps you could post a link or two to art you admire and we could swap reasoned comments on each other's taste... You know where I'm coming from, obviously, but I'm in the dark as to what you rate...

You are correct William, peoples taste are different.

I don't profess to be an art aficionado but I like a more classical style. I prefer Rembrandt, Goya or Rubens but I don't mind admitting to liking a bit of Dali or even Banksy.

Well, we obviously share a great deal of taste... Rembrandt I've raved at above... Goya vies with Velasquez and Picasso as my most loved artist ever... (tho Velasquez always wins)... Rubens and Dali I admire without affection (tbh Dali gets on my nerves, though I can see why people like him, i think he's heartless and that leaves me thinking 'so what?')... Banksy I love...

So I'm really puzzled given that list why you find van Gogh's incredibly innovative life - from Potato Eaters (with its grim homage to realism) to Starry Night (with its wonderful exuberance) not worth recognition... He grabbed every artistic fashion and twisted it for himself... and made artists decades later think about what they were doing...

OK - you just don't get it... and neither does Bruce...

I'm glad I do, anyway, enriches my life a little...

I think the Van Gogh thing is more to do with the style of painting rather than the painting itself. You use the word I was thinking innovative, which I don't doubt for a minute.

As I said I know what I like and I just don't 'get' Van Gogh (or quite a bit of the impressionism period if I am honest). These greats were experimenting a lot in the style and techniques which doesn't always work IMO.

I put it down to being an 'immature' art critic as I am obviously not as versed in the mastery side as you William. But I can see myself visiting more art museums once my kids have grown up and flown the nest so my taste may change with age.

[thebish]

Of all the paintings of the Tango I've seen (and there are hundreds) this is one of the few I'd want. Most of them fail because of over dramatic attempts at sex or contortionist gymnastics.This one works for me, modern or no.

which one's you???

[TANGODANCER]

.which one's you???

I'm out of picture with Erin Boag.

[Bruce Rioja]

OK - you just don't get it... and neither does Bruce...

'Just don't like it', is what you're looking for, Bill. I can appreciate Van Gogh's idosyncratic brush style, and do, but all too often the finished article, as a painting, does nothing for me.

[TANGODANCER]

"Great art" seems to be somewhat on a par with beauty being in the eye of the beholder.

[William the White]

"Great art" seems to be somewhat on a par with beauty being in the eye of the beholder.

Yet, how few seem to be content with that... My daughter's 'set text' for her art theory/history compulsory first year course at Lancaster Uni is called 'Art in Theory, 1900-2000. An Anthology of Changing Ideas' - so only a single century.

I have it in front of me now, because she's been working on an essay in my room and the last page (of the book, not her essay) is numbered 1258...

You could have saved em so much time...

[Zulus Thousand of em]

"Great art" seems to be somewhat on a par with beauty being in the eye of the beholder.

Yet, how few seem to be content with that... My daughter's 'set text' for her art theory/history compulsory first year course at Lancaster Uni is called 'Art in Theory, 1900-2000. An Anthology of Changing Ideas' - so only a single century.

I have it in front of me now, because she's been working on an essay in my room and the last page (of the book, not her essay) is numbered 1258...

You could have saved em so much time...

What, and put all those art expert university lecturers out of a job?

[Worthy4England]

"Great art" seems to be somewhat on a par with beauty being in the eye of the beholder.

Yet, how few seem to be content with that... My daughter's 'set text' for her art theory/history compulsory first year course at Lancaster Uni is called 'Art in Theory, 1900-2000. An Anthology of Changing Ideas' - so only a single century.

I have it in front of me now, because she's been working on an essay in my room and the last page (of the book, not her essay) is numbered 1258...

You could have saved em so much time...

What, and put all those art expert university lecturers out of a job?

They should design Art exams to be multiple choice.

a) It's not Art
b) It's shit
c) I like it

All answers are correct. Everyone gets an A*.

Simples.

[thebish]

"Great art" seems to be somewhat on a par with beauty being in the eye of the beholder.

with an "art" that is close to your heart, Tango - dance - you can presumably discern who the "great" dancers are - can't you? In the case of dance - would you ever allow that it might be a little bit more than "eye of the beholder"? If not - fair enough - but it sounds way too simple a theory to answer a complex question to me..

in a pub conversation - your friend has seen Lenny Henry doing the Birdie Dance and remarks that he is a great dancer... you smile and opine that El Cachafaz is a "great" dancer - and Lenny Henry is in a different category when it comes to dance. Your friend retorts - nahhh - it's all in the eye of the beholder - leave it out with your poncy theories and extensive knowledge built up over many years of experience and study - that counts for nothing..."

you may smile and agree, and finish your beer - but deep down - would you REALLY agree that Lenny Henry's clumsy Birdie Dance should absolutely be considered in the same class as El Cachafaz's greatest work depending merely on the eye of a random beholder?

[TANGODANCER]

You're a determined chap bish, I'll give you that. Talk about the outer limits

Lenny Henry is a great dancer ( to me, in this hypothetical instance) in the same way as Tracy Emin is a great artist. Difference being in the size of the respective fan clubs and the fact that no one is claiming anything of the sort in Henry's case. It's still all in the eye of the beholder whatever. Great art is only thus in the eyes of those who say it is. Is this debate ( titled "The Great Art Debate) actually about great art, or is it a great debate about art, or is it about what is art and what isn't? All in the eye of the beholder, of course.

[thebish]

You're a determined chap bish, I'll give you that. Talk about the outer limits

Lenny Henry is a great dancer ( to me, in this hypothetical instance) in the same way as Tracy Emin is a great artist. Difference being in the size of the respective fan clubs and the fact that no one is claiming anything of the sort in Henry's case. It's still all in the eye of the beholder whatever. Great art is only thus in the eyes of those who say it is. Is this debate ( titled "The Great Art Debate) actually about great art, or is it a great debate about art, or is it about what is art and what isn't? All in the eye of the beholder, of course.

it's an ongoing interesting debate - I think.

it would have been a lot shorter if it was just "I like it" or "I don't like it" and that's personal preference - such an attitude would lend itself to a simple poll.

however true or not true that might be - it isn't very interesting.

I am MUCH more interested to try and understand what it is about art (whether I personally "like" it or not) that makes people "like" it - or what is it about art that moves people.

I admire people who can articulate that - in a way that communicates some of their enthusiasm to me - even if I still don't particularly LIKE the picture.

I am not very good at articulating that myself - but in listening to those that are, I learn something and come to appreciate tons of stuff that are beyond my simple "liking" or "not liking" - just "because".

I am not interested in persuading anyone to like what I like - nor will I necessarily like what everyone else likes - that's not the point - but I am fascinated to hear what it is about art that means something in different ways to different people - and the more people can try to put that into words - the better this thread is - that's what I think this thread is about.

"I like it because I do" doesn't really tell me anything, and isn't very interesting (however true it is)

the same would be true of footballers..

some one might say - "I love KD, he's great and that's my personal opinion and I am entitled to it."

but it is always a whole lot more interesting to hear why... what he brings to the game - what it is about him that inspires such love...

that's all!

[TANGODANCER]

And 37 pages later....the jury's still out.

[thebish]

And 37 pages later....the jury's still out.

it always will be Tango - the enjoyment and growth is in the learning, not in having all the answers...

if the TW forum could answer the question "what is great art" in a mere 37 pages - then I suspect it would not be a question worth asking....

[malcd1]

And 37 pages later....the jury's still out.

it always will be Tango - the enjoyment and growth is in the learning, not in having all the answers...

if the TW forum could answer the question "what is great art" in a mere 37 pages - then I suspect it would not be a question worth asking....

What is art is such a subjective topic. What I would class as art is not something that someone says is art but something which takes some sort of talent to produce it.

This has probably been discussed many times during this debate but for me, the Emin artwork, 'The Bed', is not art (my bed/bedroom looks something like that every morning). That is merely saying this is art because I said so. I believe that 90% of the crap she produces I could replicate if I was a bit mad. There appears to be very little talent on show, nor is it thought provoking (to me).

[thebish]

And 37 pages later....the jury's still out.

it always will be Tango - the enjoyment and growth is in the learning, not in having all the answers...

if the TW forum could answer the question "what is great art" in a mere 37 pages - then I suspect it would not be a question worth asking....

What is art is such a subjective topic. What I would class as art is not something that someone says is art but something which takes some sort of talent to produce it.

This has probably been discussed many times during this debate but for me, the Emin artwork, 'The Bed', is not art (my bed/bedroom looks something like that every morning). That is merely saying this is art because I said so. I believe that 90% of the crap she produces I could replicate if I was a bit mad. There appears to be very little talent on show, nor is it thought provoking (to me).

hmmm... does the fact that you could replicate it make it bad?

there have been many awesomely witty quotes through history - I could replicate all of them....

not all of art's greatness is in the skill of execution - at least some of it is in having the idea/vision in the first place...

[thebish]

And 37 pages later....the jury's still out.

it always will be Tango - the enjoyment and growth is in the learning, not in having all the answers...

if the TW forum could answer the question "what is great art" in a mere 37 pages - then I suspect it would not be a question worth asking....

What is art is such a subjective topic. What I would class as art is not something that someone says is art but something which takes some sort of talent to produce it.

This has probably been discussed many times during this debate but for me, the Emin artwork, 'The Bed', is not art (my bed/bedroom looks something like that every morning). That is merely saying this is art because I said so. I believe that 90% of the crap she produces I could replicate if I was a bit mad. There appears to be very little talent on show, nor is it thought provoking (to me).

hmmm... does the fact that you could replicate it make it bad?

there have been many awesomely witty quotes through history - I could replicate all of them....

not all of art's greatness is in the skill of execution - at least some of it is in having the idea/vision in the first place...

(btw - I'm not at all sure you COULD replicate 90% of emin's work even if you were a bit mad... some pieces, maybe - but actually she is fairly multi-skilled - painting, fabrics, photography, film, literature. yes - she is most famous for "controversial" installations - but that is only a small part of her repertoire...)

[TANGODANCER]

I'll cedit the Emin woman with at least the idea for my latest art creation. It's entitled "Failure"

The scene is part of a bike shed wall and chalked all over it is a list of names of all the girls at school that I didn't manage to have er, romantic encounters with. Should generate some interest with all the female ex-pupils of said school, who can proudly show their husbands that their names aren't there. Course, there might be the odd one or two who er, don't show up..

[thebish]

I'll cedit the Emin woman with at least the idea for my latest art creation. It's entitled "Failure"

The scene is part of a bike shed wall and chalked all over it is a list of names of all the girls at school that I didn't manage to have er, romantic encounters with. Should generate some interest with all the female ex-pupils of said school, who can proudly show their husbands that their names aren't there. Course, there might be the odd one or two who er, don't show up..

can you post a photo?

[TANGODANCER]

I'll cedit the Emin woman with at least the idea for my latest art creation. It's entitled "Failure"

The scene is part of a bike shed wall and chalked all over it is a list of names of all the girls at school that I didn't manage to have er, romantic encounters with. Should generate some interest with all the female ex-pupils of said school, who can proudly show their husbands that their names aren't there. Course, there might be the odd one or two who er, don't show up..

can you post a photo?

Unfortunately not. See, I'm still toying with making it really controversial by leaving it blank.

[thebish]

I'll cedit the Emin woman with at least the idea for my latest art creation. It's entitled "Failure"

The scene is part of a bike shed wall and chalked all over it is a list of names of all the girls at school that I didn't manage to have er, romantic encounters with. Should generate some interest with all the female ex-pupils of said school, who can proudly show their husbands that their names aren't there. Course, there might be the odd one or two who er, don't show up..

can you post a photo?

Unfortunately not. See, I'm still toying with making it really controversial by leaving it blank.

can you post a photo of your controversial blank work?