Today I'm angry about.....

[Lord Kangana]

I can't imagine its cheaper to produce in either France or Germany.

Is it? And why?

[thebish]

Well yes but Siemens are multinational are they not? They also have a British 'arm'. So why are they Johnny Foreigners and Bombardier aren't?

do siemens have a british carriage-making arm?

You didn't answer my question. Irrespective of whether Siemens can make these carriages in Britain and ignoring the fact that shortly after losing the tender Bombardier landed the biggest contract in their history (which they would likely not have done had they been succesful in the first place) What makes Siemens a Johnny Foreigner firm and Bombardier not?

it was simply shorthand - trying to explain Zulu's simile to Monty! the shorthand being that the order - instead of being made in a factory in britain employing brits - they would be made in johnny foreigner land made by Johnny foreigners..

then Monty could understand why Zulu mentioned it alongside the olympic ticket affair.

of course - bobo is right - but that wasn't really the point - i was merely trying to flesh out a simile in an economical fashion!

[Gary the Enfield]

I can't imagine its cheaper to produce in either France or Germany.

Is it? And why?

Failure to invest in our infrastructure. Archaic working practices and a (still) relatively strong transport union unwilling to cooperate with management change.

[thebish]

Pause whilst Bish looks for suitable emoticon.

errrr......

hmmmmmm......

ahhhhhhh!

[Gary the Enfield]

Well yes but Siemens are multinational are they not? They also have a British 'arm'. So why are they Johnny Foreigners and Bombardier aren't?

do siemens have a british carriage-making arm?

You didn't answer my question. Irrespective of whether Siemens can make these carriages in Britain and ignoring the fact that shortly after losing the tender Bombardier landed the biggest contract in their history (which they would likely not have done had they been succesful in the first place) What makes Siemens a Johnny Foreigner firm and Bombardier not?

it was simply shorthand - trying to explain Zulu's simile to Monty! the shorthand being that the order - instead of being made in a factory in britain employing brits - they would be made in johnny foreigner land made by Johnny foreigners..

then Monty could understand why Zulu mentioned it alongside the olympic ticket affair.

of course - bobo is right - but that wasn't really the point - i was merely trying to flesh out a simile in an economical fashion![/quote]


Have you ever considered politics?

As a profession, that is.

[Lord Kangana]

Surely the very powerful unions in France, or indeed the social welfare costs in Germany would weigh equally as heavy, wouldn't they?

[thebish]

Well yes but Siemens are multinational are they not? They also have a British 'arm'. So why are they Johnny Foreigners and Bombardier aren't?

do siemens have a british carriage-making arm?

You didn't answer my question. Irrespective of whether Siemens can make these carriages in Britain and ignoring the fact that shortly after losing the tender Bombardier landed the biggest contract in their history (which they would likely not have done had they been succesful in the first place) What makes Siemens a Johnny Foreigner firm and Bombardier not?

it was simply shorthand - trying to explain Zulu's simile to Monty! the shorthand being that the order - instead of being made in a factory in britain employing brits - they would be made in johnny foreigner land made by Johnny foreigners..

then Monty could understand why Zulu mentioned it alongside the olympic ticket affair.

of course - bobo is right - but that wasn't really the point - i was merely trying to flesh out a simile in an economical fashion![/quote]


Have you ever considered politics?

As a profession, that is.

it'd ruin my training schedule!

[Zulus Thousand of em]

then Monty could understand why Zulu mentioned it alongside the olympic ticket affair.

I didn't mention it. The reporter at PrintWeek included it in his article. I added the relevant link to the PrintWeek website.

[Gary the Enfield]

Surely the very powerful unions in France, or indeed the social welfare costs in Germany would weigh equally as heavy, wouldn't they?

The German economy (because it's they more than France that I'm referring to) and their work ethic are geared towards 21st century client requirements. I don't believe we ever moved on from the Eighties.

[thebish]

then Monty could understand why Zulu mentioned it alongside the olympic ticket affair.

I didn't mention it. The reporter at PrintWeek included it in his article. I added the relevant link to the PrintWeek website.

you quoted sibbald - and Monty asked what you meant! I was just trying to be helpful to Monty!!

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Read it again Bish. I did not quote Sibbald. I added a link to the Olympic ticket story which appeared on the PrintWeek website. Sibbald's comments appeared in that story, along with remarks from others.

Do keep up.

[Lord Kangana]

Aye, but on that point, I was chatting with an engineer only the other day who works for the British arm of a German company. I could write reams on this, but in short he said their union had to keep going to the German parent company to kick the British management up the arse, because 1) The German workers were given a better profit share, benefits etc etc than the Brits doing the same job 2) The British Directors always awarded themselves a higher % of profits as a dividend than their German counterparts, whilst simultaneously freezing payrises to the employees. A situation that wasn't happening over in Germany.

Now, he may have been making it up. But I have no reason to believe he was, because evidence shows that German workers have greater access to workplace benefits, whilst also returning greater productrivity to their employers.

Which is why I always remain sceptical that its working practices and unions that are to blame for this country's sluggish manufacturing sector.

[Bruce Rioja]

Bombadier should be pronounced like the Wells' ale. Bomb-barr-diyay my arse. And furthermore it's frigging Nestles!!!!!

[Gary the Enfield]

Aye, but on that point, I was chatting with an engineer only the other day who works for the British arm of a German company. I could write reams on this, but in short he said their union had to keep going to the German parent company to kick the British management up the arse, because 1) The German workers were given a better profit share, benefits etc etc than the Brits doing the same job 2) The British Directors always awarded themselves a higher % of profits as a dividend than their German counterparts, whilst simultaneously freezing payrises to the employees. A situation that wasn't happening over in Germany.

Now, he may have been making it up. But I have no reason to believe he was, because evidence shows that German workers have greater access to workplace benefits, whilst also returning greater productrivity to their employers.

Which is why I always remain sceptical that its working practices and unions that are to blame for this country's sluggish manufacturing sector.

I wasn't just blaming the unions. Archaic working practices go up the ladder and down.

[thebish]

Read it again Bish. I did not quote Sibbald. I added a link to the Olympic ticket story which appeared on the PrintWeek website. Sibbald's comments appeared in that story, along with remarks from others.

Do keep up.

ahhhaaaaaa!!! I see!! it's all Monty's fault!! (bloody johnny foreigner!!) - he quoted just that line with "Zulus Thousand of em wrote:" as if you had said it!

mea culpa!



anyway - I was STILL trying to be helpful to Monty - who now seems to have scarpered having ruined my afternoon and my reputation!

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Bloody Canadians! They could start an argument in an empty room.

[jimbo]

People who run round moaning they have loads of work to do but don't actually do any of it. Shut up and do what you're supposed to

[thebish]

I wasn't just blaming the unions. Archaic working practices go up the ladder and down.

not if health & safety have anything to do with it, they don't! (arf!)

[bobo the clown]

All of which inconveniently brings us back to the nagging question of why everyone else has their own manufacturers and we don't?

... because, (answer dependent upon your own preference) ...

a). Thatcher fckd up manufacturing in the UK
b). The unions are so short sighted they've closed more factories than Hitler ever managed
c). European costs, employment terms, bureaucracy etc., etc. make much of European manufacturing impossibly uncompetitive
d). Some mixture of the above
e). Seimens is a much funnier name & anyway everyone though Bombardier was a beer
f). Wibble

[bobo the clown]

Bloody Canadians! They could start an argument in an empty room.

... AND take casualties.