The Politics Thread

[Bruce Rioja]

A £ound to a pinch of shit says that the headline in at least one of the morning's tabloids will be 'Egg Miliband' or 'Egged Miliband'.

Fair play to him for remaining completely unflustered and just carrying on with his business. Unlike saaaaaay the utter wanker John Prescott

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23696920" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[thebish]

this Egypt situation.... how is that NOT simply an old fashioned military coup? why can't western governments bring themselves to describe it as such?

[Harry Genshaw]

A £ound to a pinch of shit says that the headline in at least one of the morning's tabloids will be 'Egg Miliband' or 'Egged Miliband'.

Fair play to him for remaining completely unflustered and just carrying on with his business. Unlike saaaaaay the utter wanker John Prescott

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23696920" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You see I always admired Prescott for just reacting as an old sea dog would have done and hitting back.

I remember him getting a bit of stick from Tories at the time but I wondered if they'd have been as outraged if it had been say Chris Patten

[William the White]

this Egypt situation.... how is that NOT simply an old fashioned military coup? why can't western governments bring themselves to describe it as such?

Not hard to answer this one - they prefer a military government to a Moslem one, they have no genuine interest in democracy, and Egyptian autocracy has served them well for 40 years - did a lot of torturing-by-proxy for them in the recent past... But they like to pretend otherwise...

You knew this, of course, thebish... the question was rhetorical, i presume...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

this Egypt situation.... how is that NOT simply an old fashioned military coup? why can't western governments bring themselves to describe it as such?

Not hard to answer this one - they prefer a military government to a Moslem one, they have no genuine interest in democracy, and Egyptian autocracy has served them well for 40 years - did a lot of torturing-by-proxy for them in the recent past... But they like to pretend otherwise...

You knew this, of course, thebish... the question was rhetorical, i presume...

So the millions who came out onto the streets who weren't the army. Absolutely nothing to do with them either...

[thebish]

this Egypt situation.... how is that NOT simply an old fashioned military coup? why can't western governments bring themselves to describe it as such?

Not hard to answer this one - they prefer a military government to a Moslem one, they have no genuine interest in democracy, and Egyptian autocracy has served them well for 40 years - did a lot of torturing-by-proxy for them in the recent past... But they like to pretend otherwise...

You knew this, of course, thebish... the question was rhetorical, i presume...

well - no...

had you forgotten that the USA almost totally funds the Egyptian military and that this is for the sake of US foreign policy? If the USA declared that this was a military coup - as indeed it totally and obviously is - then they would have to stop selling them arms and operating another military force by proxy...

i think i must be missing the meaning of democracy here... isn't it that free and fair elections (expressing the peoples' will) elect (in Egypt's case) a President? And isn't the idea that if you decide you don't like the president that you elected only a year ago, then you elect someone else next time round?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

this Egypt situation.... how is that NOT simply an old fashioned military coup? why can't western governments bring themselves to describe it as such?

Not hard to answer this one - they prefer a military government to a Moslem one, they have no genuine interest in democracy, and Egyptian autocracy has served them well for 40 years - did a lot of torturing-by-proxy for them in the recent past... But they like to pretend otherwise...

You knew this, of course, thebish... the question was rhetorical, i presume...

well - no...

had you forgotten that the USA almost totally funds the Egyptian military and that this is for the sake of US foreign policy? If the USA declared that this was a military coup - as indeed it totally and obviously is - then they would have to stop selling them arms and operating another military force by proxy...

i think i must be missing the meaning of democracy here... isn't it that free and fair elections (expressing the peoples' will) elect (in Egypt's case) a President? And isn't the idea that if you decide you don't like the president that you elected only a year ago, then you elect someone else next time round?

But, when that fairly elected President (who got a tadge over 50%) decides to write a constitution that then permanently favours his own agenda and party to the iniquitious detriment of some of the 49% who didn't vote for him, and those 49% come out onto the streets to demand a restart button, I can see why at that point the US might not necessarily leap to the conclusion it is a military coup...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And when you say missing the meaning of democracy, that is precisely what Morsi did, miss the meaning of democracy. When elected you serve the whole people, not just your segment of society. Otherwise it's a dictatorship and not a democracy, even if you got to the position of dictator through the ballot box.

[thebish]

so... to sum up - it's not a military coup if the government is *unpopular and the military seize power?

*presumably measured by people demonstrating

[thebish]

And when you say missing the meaning of democracy, that is precisely what Morsi did, miss the meaning of democracy. When elected you serve the whole people, not just your segment of society. Otherwise it's a dictatorship and not a democracy, even if you got to the position of dictator through the ballot box.

hmmmmm.... so it wouldn't be a military coup if the army seized control when the tories are in power in the UK?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And when you say missing the meaning of democracy, that is precisely what Morsi did, miss the meaning of democracy. When elected you serve the whole people, not just your segment of society. Otherwise it's a dictatorship and not a democracy, even if you got to the position of dictator through the ballot box.

hmmmmm.... so it wouldn't be a military coup if the army seized control when the tories are in power in the UK?

If only...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

But anyway, double standards are rife everywhere. If for example, the Free Cornish Army were in league with the United Methodist Churches of Yorkshire and set up armed roadblocks and demanded the overthrow of Cameron and stormed Bodmin, I don't think the government's reaction would be much different to what Assad's was. I also don't think the EU foreign ministers would be demanding that some of the sections in the Yorkshire uprising should be armed by America to 'even the situation up a bit' like has happened in Syria either.

[Hoboh]

The Egypt situation is not good!

[thebish]

The Egypt situation is not good!

no, Hoboh - I'll think you'll find it is great - the army has taken over, deposed and imprisoned the democratically elected president, suspended the constitution, arrested the usual suspects, closed down television stations and massed their armour in the streets of the capital as a popular revolution against tyranny... power to the people!!

[Bruce Rioja]

You could probably squeeze a good deal out of them for a fortnight in Sharm el Sheikh though, so it's not all bad.

[BWFC_Insane]

You could probably squeeze a good deal out of them for a fortnight in Sharm el Sheikh though, so it's not all bad.

I take it you've never been to Sharm el Sheikh?

[Hoboh]

The Egypt situation is not good!

no, Hoboh - I'll think you'll find it is great - the army has taken over, deposed and imprisoned the democratically elected president, suspended the constitution, arrested the usual suspects, closed down television stations and massed their armour in the streets of the capital as a popular revolution against tyranny... power to the people!!

We share along with the West in general a great deal of responsability for whats happening there, in Syria, Iraq, Iran...............

[Bruce Rioja]

You could probably squeeze a good deal out of them for a fortnight in Sharm el Sheikh though, so it's not all bad.

I take it you've never been to Sharm el Sheikh?

I haven't, and out of curiosity I've just checked, and no you can't. Drat.

[thebish]

The Egypt situation is not good!

no, Hoboh - I'll think you'll find it is great - the army has taken over, deposed and imprisoned the democratically elected president, suspended the constitution, arrested the usual suspects, closed down television stations and massed their armour in the streets of the capital as a popular revolution against tyranny... power to the people!!

We share along with the West in general a great deal of responsability for whats happening there, in Syria, Iraq, Iran...............

oh - indeed!

[Prufrock]

this Egypt situation.... how is that NOT simply an old fashioned military coup? why can't western governments bring themselves to describe it as such?

Not hard to answer this one - they prefer a military government to a Moslem one, they have no genuine interest in democracy, and Egyptian autocracy has served them well for 40 years - did a lot of torturing-by-proxy for them in the recent past... But they like to pretend otherwise...

You knew this, of course, thebish... the question was rhetorical, i presume...

well - no...

had you forgotten that the USA almost totally funds the Egyptian military and that this is for the sake of US foreign policy? If the USA declared that this was a military coup - as indeed it totally and obviously is - then they would have to stop selling them arms and operating another military force by proxy...

i think i must be missing the meaning of democracy here... isn't it that free and fair elections (expressing the peoples' will) elect (in Egypt's case) a President? And isn't the idea that if you decide you don't like the president that you elected only a year ago, then you elect someone else next time round?

But, when that fairly elected President (who got a tadge over 50%) decides to write a constitution that then permanently favours his own agenda and party to the iniquitious detriment of some of the 49% who didn't vote for him, and those 49% come out onto the streets to demand a restart button, I can see why at that point the US might not necessarily leap to the conclusion it is a military coup...

As long as they overlooked the blindingly obvious fact that it's a coup carried out by the military you mean? It might be for good reason, but that's what it is!