You take the high road...

[Harry Genshaw]

Cant imagine the yes vote coming even close to winning, but I'd imagine there is a feeling amongst many Scots right now, of the state machinery attempting to bully them over the Pound issue

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

However the vote goes and I personally think it will be a lot closer than most think, this referendum is just another step on the road however long to the break up of the Union.
Britain has had its day. It was always a creation based on the mutual benefits inherent in the accumulation of an empire and held together by the shared experience of two world wars.
I personally never say I, m british .I am a scot and currently a citizen of the united kingdom working and residing in england.
As far as the current brinkmanship over the pound and the EU is concerned I suspect it will be english and scottish businesses that decide the former not the two parliaments and as far as europe is concerned well the clamour to admit the relatively newly independent countries of eastern europe would suggest that an independent Scotland would somehow find its way in.

[Lord Kangana]

Hmmm, theres a lot of 1+1=5 going on here. Kosovo's entry into the EU is being blocked by Spain (primarily), because Spain is worried about losing Catalonia - and not for altruistic reasons either, they want the money, Catalonia is the most prosperous part of the country. It would only take one vote to block Scotland's entry. So is it bullying? I would say in any classical sense, yes, the rhetoric from Westminster has yet again been heavy handed, condescending and unnecessary. However, Worthy's point stands, that wanting independence should entail just that. We could do this in a much more adult fashion though.

[Little Green Man]

If they are to be admitted to the EEC which, whatever posturing goes on, most would wish, they will need to be welcomed in by ALL 27 current members. Spain for sure and Belgium and maybe others will be scared to death of that.

Indeed. In all his posturing indignation with regard to bullying I've not heard him raise that possibility. (It's not bullying, it's part of the process of spelling out the risks and realities of independence, albeit with a political slant.) Those countries aside, I'd have thought that all Eurozone members would take a pretty dim view of a sulking Scotland that didn't agree to take on its share of the UK national debt.

I've also not heard him raise the risk of workers/businesses heading south if sterling is no longer the currency north of the border and there's no certainty as to what will replace it. Come to think of it, I've not heard much from him recently about the Celtic Tiger economies.

That said, while Salmond is leader of the SNP they are not a shambles. He's the most astute political operator in British politics (that's not a compliment) and as such has made mincemeat of the other parties up here. Once he goes however...

Anyway, assuming my new neighbour hasn't thieved my vote, I'll be voting no. I'm happy enough with what we've got now. It's infinitely preferable to what we had during the time of Thatcher.

[bobo the clown]

As is often the case, if the vote is a "no" you can bet your ass those who want it will bang on and on .... demanding a fresh vote in 5, 10, 15 years time.

Should it be "yes" do you think there's a hope in Hell it'll get re-voted on in due course ?

[Little Green Man]

Should it be "yes" do you think there's a hope in Hell it'll get re-voted on in due course ?

Perhaps if RBS went tits up again and there was only the Scottish economy on hand to bail it out for a second time.

[bobo the clown]

Should it be "yes" do you think there's a hope in Hell it'll get re-voted on in due course ?

Perhaps if RBS went tits up again and there was only the Scottish economy on hand to bail it out for a second time.

... at which point the dreadful English may well tell them to fck right off.

[boltonboris]

But we wouldn't... Because a lot of English people would have their money there..

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

And the point is?
I wasnt around at the time but I dont remember reading anywhere that the scots or english people for that matter had any say in whether to join in union in the first place
If the scottish electorate continue to vote snp in large numbers then of course independence will remain on the political agenda
Same applies to people voting conservative thus keeping continued membership of the eu on the agenda
Such is democracy
And I imagine if the vote was yes the huge political force that is the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party would work their socks off to re establish the union

[bobo the clown]

And the point is?

My point is it's a one-way valve.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

No it isnt
In the unlikely event a Unionist party ever gained enough support in scotland to attempt to re negotiate re entry to the Union then that is presumeably what would happen.
Your post is simply part of the same old " they want to have their cake and eat it" nonsensical argument.
Personally I regret that thecwhole debate comes down to economics ... but the that was what the union was all about in the first place

[bobo the clown]

'tis !

[William the White]

It's interestimg to read this - Salmond is a 'cock'... (Pru)... The SNP is a shambles... (Zulu)...

Well this cock has led this shambles into government, knocking out the two-generation natural party of (Scottish) government - Labour - and with only a minimal nudge whisking into national oblivion the largest party in the UK parliament...

Some cock, some shambles...

If I lived in Scotland I'd vote yes, with a gulp, fingers crossed and the very comforting thought that I'd never have a Tory government again...

[Zulus Thousand of em]

I can't say I'm surprised, Will.

[Prufrock]

Being successful doesn't make him not a cock! I'm also not talking about his politics, a lot of which I too like. But even by politicians' standards he seems an agessive self-obsessed deliberately provocative wanker.

I saw George the other day in what overall, to be fair, was a very convincing speech, claim both that his austerity jazz was fantastic, but also try to flatter the Scots by pointing out that Scotland (with its social democrat led assembly) was one of the strongest regions in the UK for growth. Now that's not neccesarily contradictory, but it raises questions.

[bobo the clown]

You CAN actually go and live thete Bill. There's still time. I could arrange the removals men.


More seriously, taking your point about the essentially non-Toryness of the place it would remove 60+ seats from the existing Parliament ... almost none of which are Tory and would make England much less to your taste.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I don't understand this accusation of 'bullying' or 'brinkmanship' on the question of currency.

It's a big, important question and a huge barrier to a break-up.

The reason it's being discussed robustly now for the first time is that it has suited both sides of the debate not to get bogged down with it in the past - unfortunately that can't carry on now we at this stage of separation being within the range of possible outcomes, even if it isn't likely.

A pro-independence Scottish friend I discuss these things with posted this the other day: http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/money-ban ... -the-pound" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The comparison with Panama is interesting. Everything that article says is valid, but the fact is that Panama does not have a big financial services industry and this may well be part of the choice Scots face.

Look, for example, at the World Bank's figures for banking penetration domestically in Panama: http://datatopics.worldbank.org/financi ... try/panama" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And compare to the UK: http://datatopics.worldbank.org/financi ... ed-kingdom" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In fact, the only reason Panama has any financial services at all is because it is a secretive off-shore destination for foreigners: http://www.economist.com/node/14745043" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Personally I do find it likely that Scotland's financial sector will contract very significantly if it goes its own way - it may be that some find this desirable. Some might not though!

[BWFC_Insane]

The "never again ruled by a Tory government" line is a very strong argument for the yes vote in Scotland.

I don't get why people get nationalistic about this. A group of people from our country are campaigning to leave it. Very strong campaigning. That in itself tells a story. And when you listen to their arguments for why they should leave, without getting into a economic debate, they have very good reason for not wanting to be ruled by Westminster.

In fact I would say most places in the UK outside of London have a very strong argument for not wanting to be ruled by Westminster.

Personally I think we should think on, rather than blazing out cheap nationalistic jibes. I feel far more connected to Scotland and the issues they have than I do to London and the Tory dominated South East. I'm genuinely surprised that most people in the North of England aren't also feeling the same way.

[Worthy4England]

The "never again ruled by a Tory government" line is a very strong argument for the yes vote in Scotland.

I don't get why people get nationalistic about this. A group of people from our country are campaigning to leave it. Very strong campaigning. That in itself tells a story. And when you listen to their arguments for why they should leave, without getting into a economic debate, they have very good reason for not wanting to be ruled by Westminster.

In fact I would say most places in the UK outside of London have a very strong argument for not wanting to be ruled by Westminster.

Personally I think we should think on, rather than blazing out cheap nationalistic jibes. I feel far more connected to Scotland and the issues they have than I do to London and the Tory dominated South East. I'm genuinely surprised that most people in the North of England aren't also feeling the same way.

How can you have the campaign without the economic debate? Surely the two are fairly closely linked?

[Prufrock]

I think *not getting into the economic debate* is daft. It has to feature in something like this. Shouldn't be the only reason though.

I also think the debate so far has been pretty civilised and non-nationalistic, which doesnt suit Salmond (the cock) hence his attempts to stir it up with accusations of bullying.