The Politics Thread

[William the White]

Most appear to have moved to the centre except the Mail,

WHAT????

Compared to what they were in 1950s, but perhaps I am wrong. Is not the Mail extremely right wing? Has not the Times moved a little left? To me the centre accepts things like social programs and cultural diversity - but I'm getting this all pretty much second hand (so don't be too shocked - just consider it ignorance).

not sure the sun, the mirror, the express, the star, the guardian or the telegraph have moved to the "centre" in any definite/meaningful sense... you might say the independent is in the centre - but that wasn't around when you were here and hasn't moved to the centre - it always was in the centre... the FT and the Times dallied with labour under blair - but have returned to form...

which papers did you have in mind?

The fifties were a long time ago but I'm casting my mind back.
The serious papers were the Times, the Daily Telegraph and the Manchester Guardian - the first two were true blue conservative and the last liberal. They employed journalists with a high level of literacy!

Less serious but respectable were the Daily Express and the Daily Mail. Both conservative and they employed reporters who were somewhat literate.

Then there was the tabloid Daily Mirror which concentrated on sports and many pictures. It was also conservative. There was no Sun. The other tabloid was the Daily Worker, which was an organ of the Communist Party. The other leftist papers tended to be weekly.

In the 1950s conservatives (and conservative papers) took a harder line on a number of issues than it seems to me that they do today.

No - the paper Murdoch bought and turned into The Sun was the Daily Herald... Owned by the trade unions this was a mass circulation Labour-supporting paper... The Daily Worker was not a tabloid (I bought it on my way to school, so I know... I suspect you never did... It gave me the necessary daily ammunition to challenge the overwhelming Tory majority at Bolton School)... you missed out the rabidly right wing tabloid the Daily Sketch from your list - selective memory may be being kind to you here. The Daily Mail was not quite the filth it had been in the 1930s and is once more, but to call it respectable is pushing definitions...

[Montreal Wanderer]

No - the paper Murdoch bought and turned into The Sun was the Daily Herald... Owned by the trade unions this was a mass circulation Labour-supporting paper... The Daily Worker was not a tabloid (I bought it on my way to school, so I know... I suspect you never did... It gave me the necessary daily ammunition to challenge the overwhelming Tory majority at Bolton School)... you missed out the rabidly right wing tabloid the Daily Sketch from your list - selective memory may be being kind to you here. The Daily Mail was not quite the filth it had been in the 1930s and is once more, but to call it respectable is pushing definitions...

You are correct - I had forgotten the Herald and the Sketch amongst the tabloids - nor did I know the Herald became the Sun. You are also correct that I never purchased or read the Worker (probably an offense requiring corporal punishment where I went to school! ). The only papers I was exposed to were the Telegraph and Express (daily) and the Times (occasionally). Sunday telegraph, Sunday Express and Observer on the day of rest. I meant the Mail was respectable compared to the tabloids but perhaps you are right. I never read it. I've been in Canada for over fifty years so forgive the selective memory (Bolton was still in the First Division and there was no Premier League then)..

[Hoboh]

Frit are we David, Frit?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... early.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't want to lose the 'jobs for boys' when out of office?

Spoils your plan to move 2017 to 2022 does it?

Very democratic! crawl back under your rock.

[mrkint]

Azberaijan has released its election results, showing a landslide victory for the current President. Shame the polls only open tomorrow!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 69732.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Prufrock]

Looooool! As if the 72 per cent wasn't suspicious enough!

[Harry Genshaw]

^ Don't know if you saw Question Time last night, Bish, but Mehdi Hasan made fecking mincemeat out of Quentin Letts.

I can't turn the volume on at work, but I'm guessing that you'll find it on here.

The Daily Mail got their revenge on Hasan

http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2013- ... urnalists/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hoboh]

Wakey Wakey Europhiles your wet dream is sinking this country!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If UKIP Only have one policy to get us away from the European shambles they will still make inroads into politics.

[Bruce Rioja]

Wakey Wakey Europhiles your wet dream is sinking this country!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If UKIP Only have one policy to get us away from the European shambles they will still make inroads into politics.

UKIP seemingly do only have one policy. They'll get votes because even absolute 4ucknuggets are allowed to vote. As evidenced here.

[mrkint]

Not really sure where to stick this and we don';t have a 'law' thread but maybe this can be debated hither.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-24517760" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretty shocking stuff. Obviously not wanting to be saying anything about guilty or innocent at the moment, but i think it does raise a question about the age of criminal responsibility in this country. The lad is ten, meaning if a hypothetical situation should arise he could go to youth court or (i still think in some cases?) adult court. Just wanted to gauge your stances on the age of criminal responsibility? Not looking to point score, just looking to see what people think.

[William the White]

Not really sure where to stick this and we don';t have a 'law' thread but maybe this can be debated hither.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-24517760" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretty shocking stuff. Obviously not wanting to be saying anything about guilty or innocent at the moment, but i think it does raise a question about the age of criminal responsibility in this country. The lad is ten, meaning if a hypothetical situation should arise he could go to youth court or (i still think in some cases?) adult court. Just wanted to gauge your stances on the age of criminal responsibility? Not looking to point score, just looking to see what people think.

They were right to arrest the boy and question him if they think he was involved in a dreadful event like this.

But have they charged him? And certainly he's not yet been found guilty.

The broader question is interesting. Instinct tells me that ten is too young. What age exists in comparable countries?

[mrkint]

They haven't charged him, Will (certainly not as far as I know and tis why i wanted to nip that in the bud in my post). Just reminded me of the issue of criminal responsibility and wanted to gauge opinion.

[mrkint]

Not really sure where to stick this and we don';t have a 'law' thread but maybe this can be debated hither.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-24517760" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretty shocking stuff. Obviously not wanting to be saying anything about guilty or innocent at the moment, but i think it does raise a question about the age of criminal responsibility in this country. The lad is ten, meaning if a hypothetical situation should arise he could go to youth court or (i still think in some cases?) adult court. Just wanted to gauge your stances on the age of criminal responsibility? Not looking to point score, just looking to see what people think.

They were right to arrest the boy and question him if they think he was involved in a dreadful event like this.

But have they charged him? And certainly he's not yet been found guilty.

The broader question is interesting. Instinct tells me that ten is too young. What age exists in comparable countries?

Someone on another forum i post on linked to this blog - the age of consent v the age of criminal responsibility, which lists the ages by country http://danbunting.wordpress.com/2013/08 ... nsibility/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[William the White]

Not really sure where to stick this and we don';t have a 'law' thread but maybe this can be debated hither.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-24517760" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretty shocking stuff. Obviously not wanting to be saying anything about guilty or innocent at the moment, but i think it does raise a question about the age of criminal responsibility in this country. The lad is ten, meaning if a hypothetical situation should arise he could go to youth court or (i still think in some cases?) adult court. Just wanted to gauge your stances on the age of criminal responsibility? Not looking to point score, just looking to see what people think.

They were right to arrest the boy and question him if they think he was involved in a dreadful event like this.

But have they charged him? And certainly he's not yet been found guilty.

The broader question is interesting. Instinct tells me that ten is too young. What age exists in comparable countries?

Someone on another forum i post on linked to this blog - the age of consent v the age of criminal responsibility, which lists the ages by country http://danbunting.wordpress.com/2013/08 ... nsibility/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you for that, Mr K. I didn't realise we were that much out of step. Hoboh will be pleased.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The age of criminal responsibilty is only half the picture though, surely?

I mean, if a 12 year old were found to have formed the intention to kill someone, and went on to be successful in this enterprise, would their treatments be very much different in practice in, say, Germany, whatever the legal technicalities?

[William the White]

The age of criminal responsibilty is only half the picture though, surely?

I mean, if a 12 year old were found to have formed the intention to kill someone, and went on to be successful in this enterprise, would their treatments be very much different in practice in, say, Germany, whatever the legal technicalities?

Is the age of responsibility actually a 'technicality'? I thought it meant you couldn't be charged with a criminal act. In which case your treatment would be very different. Which doesn't mean you'd be in the sweet shop next day, obviously, but neither would you be in prison.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The age of criminal responsibilty is only half the picture though, surely?

I mean, if a 12 year old were found to have formed the intention to kill someone, and went on to be successful in this enterprise, would their treatments be very much different in practice in, say, Germany, whatever the legal technicalities?

Is the age of responsibility actually a 'technicality'? I thought it meant you couldn't be charged with a criminal act. In which case your treatment would be very different. Which doesn't mean you'd be in the sweet shop next day, obviously, but neither would you be in prison.

Say the Bulger killings had happened in Germany - would the killers have been dealt with in a way that wasn't a lot like a juvenile prison?

[mrkint]

The age of criminal responsibilty is only half the picture though, surely?

I mean, if a 12 year old were found to have formed the intention to kill someone, and went on to be successful in this enterprise, would their treatments be very much different in practice in, say, Germany, whatever the legal technicalities?

Is the age of responsibility actually a 'technicality'? I thought it meant you couldn't be charged with a criminal act. In which case your treatment would be very different. Which doesn't mean you'd be in the sweet shop next day, obviously, but neither would you be in prison.

Say the Bulger killings had happened in Germany - would the killers have been dealt with in a way that wasn't a lot like a juvenile prison?

There was a similarish case in Norway

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8577458.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Montreal Wanderer]

The age of criminal responsibilty is only half the picture though, surely?

I mean, if a 12 year old were found to have formed the intention to kill someone, and went on to be successful in this enterprise, would their treatments be very much different in practice in, say, Germany, whatever the legal technicalities?

Is the age of responsibility actually a 'technicality'? I thought it meant you couldn't be charged with a criminal act. In which case your treatment would be very different. Which doesn't mean you'd be in the sweet shop next day, obviously, but neither would you be in prison.

Canada was left off that list, but here the age of criminal responsibility is 12. Under that age the care giver (parent, guardian, welfare system, etc.) is responsible and might be charged (probably to a different and lesser offense). There is of course a difference between the age of criminal responsibility and the age where one may be tried in adult court.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I believe that there are one or two countries where the age of consent doesn't matter, although technically it is whenever your relatives decide you've reached puberty, and the age of criminal responsibilty starts as soon as you are born.

[Hoboh]

Wakey Wakey Europhiles your wet dream is sinking this country!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If UKIP Only have one policy to get us away from the European shambles they will still make inroads into politics.

UKIP seemingly do only have one policy. They'll get votes because even absolute 4ucknuggets are allowed to vote. As evidenced here.

Some of us are not as easily prepared to kiss German or French ass with such aplomb as others display.
So you Europe lovers are right are you?
Feck democracy you decide what is good for us eh?
As for 4ucknuggets, liars who sprout the Brussels line are way past that stage mate!
Give the people the vote and when you are wrong go move over there, it’s a free world (well will be till Brussels takes over everything).