Brexit or Britin

[thebish]

But the employers aren't really choosing are they?! They're making do with East European peasants because they're the only type that they can drum up. Meanwhile Johnny Scratchcard's enjoying the second test.

aye - they are choosing - they are choosing workers who are keen to work. I'm really not sure how your solution could even begin to actually work... you can't impose reluctant workers on companies, can you? would you?

[Worthy4England]

But the employers aren't really choosing are they?! They're making do with East European peasants because they're the only type that they can drum up. Meanwhile Johnny Scratchcard's enjoying the second test.

aye - they are choosing - they are choosing workers who are keen to work. I'm really not sure how your solution could even begin to actually work... you can't impose reluctant workers on companies, can you? would you?

Sure you can. The Civil Service has been around for years and years.

[thebish]

But the employers aren't really choosing are they?! They're making do with East European peasants because they're the only type that they can drum up. Meanwhile Johnny Scratchcard's enjoying the second test.

aye - they are choosing - they are choosing workers who are keen to work. I'm really not sure how your solution could even begin to actually work... you can't impose reluctant workers on companies, can you? would you?

Sure you can. The Civil Service has been around for years and years.

[Bruce Rioja]

But the employers aren't really choosing are they?! They're making do with East European peasants because they're the only type that they can drum up. Meanwhile Johnny Scratchcard's enjoying the second test.

aye - they are choosing - they are choosing workers who are keen to work. I'm really not sure how your solution could even begin to actually work... you can't impose reluctant workers on companies, can you? would you?

Yes - on performance related pay, as I've already mentioned. Sitting around doing feck all should never be an option for anybody that's available to work if there's work for them to do.

[thebish]

But the employers aren't really choosing are they?! They're making do with East European peasants because they're the only type that they can drum up. Meanwhile Johnny Scratchcard's enjoying the second test.

aye - they are choosing - they are choosing workers who are keen to work. I'm really not sure how your solution could even begin to actually work... you can't impose reluctant workers on companies, can you? would you?

Yes - on performance related pay, as I've already mentioned. Sitting around doing feck all should never be an option for anybody that's available to work if there's work for them to do.

well - yes, I agree with you in spirit - it's just the practicalities of the plan that evade me...

[Hoboh]

Leaving the EU could cause catastrophic staff shortages in some sectors, as 88% of EU workers in Britain would not qualify for a visa under the current rules, remain campaigners have warned.
scientists
A report from the Social Market Foundation thinktank has found that the majority of the 1.6 million EU workers in the UK do not meet the skills and earnings criteria that those from outside the bloc need in order to qualify for a work visa.

Finally, the myth of all the Doctors, nurses, scientists and skilled tradesmen has been put to bed and that by the remainians!

meaningless drivel... a LOT of EU workers in the UK are doing jobs like fruit-picking/hotel-work (jobs that our own home-grown labour force struggles to fill) - and they don't usually fill criteria based on pay and qualifications absolutely because they are low-pay/low-skilled jobs - which is one of the reasons why we need them to come over and do them...

it is a question for LEAVERS to grapple with... how exactly would their quota system deal with the range of jobs and skills we need? I have often heard it said that we wold only allow people in to do jobs that our home-grown labour force couldn't do... could that ever apply to fruit-picking?

Meaningless drivel?????

What we keep being told the NHS and other bodies would grind to a halt because of a lack of specialists and skilled workers from the EU?

The whole skill section of the UK would disappear without all the skilled EU migrants?

Give your head a rather large shake, this is the truth behind the lies spouted by those freedom of movement luvies.

[thebish]

Meaningless drivel?????

What we keep being told the NHS and other bodies would grind to a halt because of a lack of specialists and skilled workers from the EU?

The whole skill section of the UK would disappear without all the skilled EU migrants?

Give your head a rather large shake, this is the truth behind the lies spouted by those freedom of movement luvies.

no - we are being told that currently lots of jobs that for one reason or another we don't fill using home-grown labour are being filled by workers from elsewhere.

(eg. 11% of NHS workers - according to the Health and Social Care Information Centre.)

can you find an example of someone who has said "The whole skill section of the UK would disappear without all the skilled EU migrants."?

[Beefheart]

Meaningless drivel?????

What we keep being told the NHS and other bodies would grind to a halt because of a lack of specialists and skilled workers from the EU?

The whole skill section of the UK would disappear without all the skilled EU migrants?

Give your head a rather large shake, this is the truth behind the lies spouted by those freedom of movement luvies.

no - we are being told that currently lots of jobs that for one reason or another we don't fill using home-grown labour are being filled by workers from the EU

(eg. 11% of NHS workers - according to the Health and Social Care Information Centre.)

can you find an example of someone who has said "The whole skill section of the UK would disappear without all the skilled EU migrants."?

Yes, but the visa requirements include earnings of £35k.

Here is the pay scale for a Nurse:

'Fully qualified nurses start on salaries of £21,692 rising to £28,180 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. Salaries in London attract a high-cost area supplement. With experience, in positions such as nurse team leader on Band 6, salaries progress to £26,041 to £34,876.'

Therefore EU migrants working as nurses in the NHS wouldn't qualify, unless you don't class that as a skilled job.

[thebish]

Meaningless drivel?????

What we keep being told the NHS and other bodies would grind to a halt because of a lack of specialists and skilled workers from the EU?

The whole skill section of the UK would disappear without all the skilled EU migrants?

Give your head a rather large shake, this is the truth behind the lies spouted by those freedom of movement luvies.

no - we are being told that currently lots of jobs that for one reason or another we don't fill using home-grown labour are being filled by workers from the EU

(eg. 11% of NHS workers - according to the Health and Social Care Information Centre.)

can you find an example of someone who has said "The whole skill section of the UK would disappear without all the skilled EU migrants."?

Yes, but the visa requirements include earnings of £35k.

Here is the pay scale for a Nurse:

'Fully qualified nurses start on salaries of £21,692 rising to £28,180 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. Salaries in London attract a high-cost area supplement. With experience, in positions such as nurse team leader on Band 6, salaries progress to £26,041 to £34,876.'

Therefore EU migrants working as nurses in the NHS wouldn't qualify, unless you don't class that as a skilled job.

yes - exactly - that's why so many wouldn't qualify for a visa- fruit pickers to nurses and all stations in between... it's not that they are all unskilled dullards - it's simply a factor of the visa requirements for non-EU workers. If we didn't have the ready supply of EU workers filling those positions, then we'd need to find them from somewhere else... bruce seems to be suggesting we could fill them all out of our supply of lazy, workshy benefit-slackers... Hoboh doesn't seem to be offering a solution, he's too busy Rolling On The Floor Laughing....

[Bruce Rioja]

bruce seems to be suggesting we could fill them all out of our supply of lazy, workshy benefit-slackers...

That would certainly be my starting point, Bish. I'm not saying that they'd fill the void entirely.

[Bijou Bob]

Looking at the patients I've seen this week who are not currently working, it's fair to say that all bar 2 of them could be in productive work instead of claiming their benefits. That they are not is their choice. I can guarantee that not a single one of them would give up their freebies to go and pick fruit, look after the elderly or for that matter, any other job.

Question for you Hoboh. If we do vote out, who exactly is going to pick the fruit in the South East, work in the care homes across the UK, stack stuff in the Amazon warehouse or ensure you get the trainers you ordered from Ashley's Sports Direct?? It's not going to be the workshy, lazy, feckless, indolent, indiginous population, that much is certain.

[thebish]

bruce seems to be suggesting we could fill them all out of our supply of lazy, workshy benefit-slackers...

That would certainly be my starting point, Bish. I'm not saying that they'd fill the void entirely.

which is fine - until that lazy workshy benefit slacker "nurse" pulls back the curtain to take some blood or look after my gran...

[bobo the clown]

^^ Well, make you're mind up. They're either useless piss-pots or they're sad unfortunate people who just need a break in life.

If they're totally useless then we may as well drop them in the Ocean as they're simply drains to us. If it's the latter then give them the chance.


My colours are fully nailed to the first mast btw. Just that it sounds like you're picking & choosing depending on who you're trying to wind up.

[thebish]

^^ Well, make you're mind up. They're either useless piss-pots or they're sad unfortunate people who just need a break in life.

If they're totally useless then we may as well drop them in the Ocean as they're simply drains to us. If it's the latter then give them the chance.


My colours are fully nailed to the first mast btw. Just that it sounds like you're picking & choosing depending on who you're trying to wind up.

no idea what you're on about! I simply don't want someone described as workshy and lazy forced into treating my gran in hospital! simple!

[bobo the clown]

But you'd normally be quite supportive of someone we rough & ready types describe as workshy & lazy. If you're happy to put them on the scrapheap that's fine. We're of one voice.

[thebish]

But you'd normally be quite supportive of someone we rough & ready types describe as workshy & lazy.

yes I would - sometimes - but you'd struggle to find me denying there ARE lazy, workshy feckers out there (cos I have only ever denied that in your imagination). But I wouldn't force them to become nurses - that's where we seem to part company... maybe we want different things from nursing staff...

[Bruce Rioja]

^^ Well, make you're mind up. They're either useless piss-pots or they're sad unfortunate people who just need a break in life.

If they're totally useless then we may as well drop them in the Ocean as they're simply drains to us. If it's the latter then give them the chance.


My colours are fully nailed to the first mast btw. Just that it sounds like you're picking & choosing depending on who you're trying to wind up.

no idea what you're on about! I simply don't want someone described as workshy and lazy forced into treating my gran in hospital! simple!

But that's a ridiculous scenario to be honest, Bish. Someone who's workshy and lazy won't have the necessary qualifications. Nobody's talking about Johnny Scratchcard treating you Nan at all.

[Hoboh]

Looking at the patients I've seen this week who are not currently working, it's fair to say that all bar 2 of them could be in productive work instead of claiming their benefits. That they are not is their choice. I can guarantee that not a single one of them would give up their freebies to go and pick fruit, look after the elderly or for that matter, any other job.

Question for you Hoboh. If we do vote out, who exactly is going to pick the fruit in the South East,
A good answer maybe that the fruit growers start to pay proper wages to pickers and before you fire off about food prices rising, most can afford it, it's the middlemen, the Supermarkets who fix the shop price. Don't forget these 'poor' farmers claim EU subsidies so your paying one way or the other. There are many students and youth out of work with feck all better to do in the summer they can work.
work in the care homes across the UK, stack stuff in the Amazon warehouse or ensure you get the trainers you ordered from Ashley's Sports Direct??
On the distribution side I know you are talking bollocks that's the industry I've been in for a large part of my working life, simply the terms and conditions and pay of those working for the Ashley types (read the guardian articles on Sports Direct) have been tailored to the Eastern workers, Amazon treat their work force like human robots and employ so many EU migrants I for one would not weep if they went bust. If Corbyn will do something about these types he'd have my vote in a flash. So back to the point, just where the feck are all the people coming out of the almost compulsory further education going to get a footing on the employment ladder?
It's not going to be the workshy, lazy, feckless, indolent, indigenous population, that much is certain.
Why not? no money will change their tune after a while when the fags and booze runs out.

[Prufrock]

The immigration argument is nonsense. The govt.'s target for immigration is 100k per year. Yet our non-EU figure, the figure for immigration we control entirely and could stop as many as we want is 150k. So even if we had literally 0 immigrants from Europe, we'd still have far more immigrants than the govt's targets. Maybe, we need them?

[Harry Genshaw]

Unusually I'm more with Bruce & Bobo on this one. It beggars belief that a sandwich company in Derby, advertises for workers living in Hungary to fill their vacancies (this is the main example I can remember) - whilst as a nation we're paying several thousand people in Derby some form of ESA/JSA/Income Support