The Politics Thread

[bwfcdan94]

I see Labour won although UKIP did win a mere 2 seats.

Lets help you here a little dan.

In most parts of Bolton a dead pig with a red rosette stuck to it's ass would get elected, then one day those nasty liberal types had the cheek to gain control of the council, they in turn imploded over the bins.
The dead pigs then decided take out insurance by inviting waifs and strays from across Europe (not to mention buttering up the local Immans) to join the 'Bolton family' and merely expected a sympathetic vote in return, so for a newish party to gain two seats is a major achievement.
No doubt the dead pigs are setting aside plans for some Ukrainian brothers in case Putin loses patience, to fight off the newcomers, simples!

I thought Bolton was originally conservative, then there was no majority and then for the past 30 years it's been Labour, I didn't think Lib Dems had ever got in in Bolton but what do I know.

[Hoboh]

UKIP have tried to explain away their 7% vote in London by claiming that they were the victims of "more media-savvy, well-educated population".

darn - those well-educated people!

No wonder Ukip couldn't succeed in the capital. London is the place that Ukip warns about, the realisation of its worst nightmares. As the 2011 census revealed, white Britons are now a minority in London, accounting for only 45% of the city's population. More than 40% of Londoners were born overseas. Christians form the largest religious group, but they are no longer a majority. The highest proportion of Muslims (and every other religion) in Britain is to be found in London, where (often African) churches, mosques, temples and synagogues thrive.

Did you grab that off the BNP website?

The Guardian actully

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ons-farage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I do read the Guardian and Telegraph, I flirt with the mail (In a non gayish sort of way )

[Hoboh]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... tion-forms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh dear sorry Mr/Mrs pro EU persons, is that the reason you couldn't kill off UKIP?

OR

Is it something more sinister like erroding a countrys right to elect its own representitives by allowing EU nationals to 'fix' the vote?

[Montreal Wanderer]

I see Labour won although UKIP did win a mere 2 seats.

Lets help you here a little dan.

In most parts of Bolton a dead pig with a red rosette stuck to it's ass would get elected, then one day those nasty liberal types had the cheek to gain control of the council, they in turn imploded over the bins.
The dead pigs then decided take out insurance by inviting waifs and strays from across Europe (not to mention buttering up the local Immans) to join the 'Bolton family' and merely expected a sympathetic vote in return, so for a newish party to gain two seats is a major achievement.
No doubt the dead pigs are setting aside plans for some Ukrainian brothers in case Putin loses patience, to fight off the newcomers, simples!

I thought Bolton was originally conservative, then there was no majority and then for the past 30 years it's been Labour, I didn't think Lib Dems had ever got in in Bolton but what do I know.

I don't know about council elections but in the General Election back in the 1950s the Liberals and Conservatives had a deal over Bolton and did not run against each other to keep Labour out. So Bolton East was Conservative and Bolton West Liberal. The election map showed Bolton as a dash of blue and yellow in a sea of Lancashire red. The Liberals broke the pact in the 1960 Bolton East by-election opening the door for Labour in both constituencies. This saddened me as I did not like Harold Wilson.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

But Wilson was our Kennedy. Except for the looks. And the assassination. And the religion...

[Lord Kangana]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/magaz ... d=all&_r=0

I have to say, given their shaky track record, I'm not exactly confident that economists are best placed to offer a precis on the uselessness of voting with any real credibility.

[bobo the clown]

But Wilson was our Kennedy. Except for the looks. And the assassination. And the religion...

... & him being a Russian spy.

[Lord Kangana]

Kennedy was a Russian spy???!!!

[bobo the clown]

Kennedy was a Russian spy???!!!

Wanted shooting he did.

... & no. The Wilson type man. Fckg psuedo Scouser.

[Prufrock]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/magaz ... d=all&_r=0

I have to say, given their shaky track record, I'm not exactly confident that economists are best placed to offer a precis on the uselessness of voting with any real credibility.

Ask the wrong question, get the wrong answer. Ask yourself if you've ever met any one who voted because they expected to directly affect the result.

I love the freakonics concept but they're still ideologues.

[Bruce Rioja]

Strike a bloody light - I've just seen the results

Where's Hoboh?

Lib Dems, I see, now have as many MEPs as Plaid Cymru and two less than the Tree Huggers Alliance.

[Worthy4England]

Strike a bloody light - I've just seen the results

Where's Hoboh?

Lib Dems, I see, now have as many MEPs as Plaid Cymru and two less than the Tree Huggers Alliance.

With it being a Bank Holiday, he's probably in B&Q buying a large pile of chain link fencing, to put round Dover.

[Bruce Rioja]

Strike a bloody light - I've just seen the results

Where's Hoboh?

Lib Dems, I see, now have as many MEPs as Plaid Cymru and two less than the Tree Huggers Alliance.

With it being a Bank Holiday, he's probably in B&Q buying a large pile of chain link fencing, to put round Dover.

He was last seen down the paint isle.

[Hoboh]

Good morning gentleman, a very good night for those of us who require nothing more than a vote on staying in the Federal European Union.
This is the EU who give airy fairy reasons why it is good for us but never backs up these claims with any substance,

No wars in Europe
never excelled over Yugoslavia did they, putting on a united front to Putin and the Ukraine Causing civil unrest across many of it's member states and quote
Quote:
Chillingly, there were signs a neo-Nazi candidate for the NPD party could be elected in Germany, giving the far-Right a foothold for the first time in decades.

and that in the womb of the EU

Cash in every household?
What cash? Where is it? why do I nor anyone else feel four grand a year better off due to the Eu?

All our jobs depend on its existence?
So pre joining we were all unemployed then, mind there was a few less Mercs and beemers on our roads.
Unemployment is massive across the EU

That is a quick snap shot of things the EU has no answer too without all the other baggage.

I would call out the Lib dems (well what’s left of them) and push anti EU legislation if I was the tory's now and Labour needs to wake up!

Not a bad nights work for a bunch of fruitcakes, racists and swivel eyed loonies

I await the low turnout, percentage sore loser Federalists now. If people don’t vote, it's their choice but then they lose their say, tough.

[Prufrock]

I still don't get it. Barely 1 in 4 people who voted voted for UKIP. For every one vote cast for a party who want to leave the EU, slightly more than 2 voted for a party who want to stay in. In elections about the EU! It's not the local elections, where you might want to leave the EU but not vote UKIP coz their policy on the bins is sus. It's not the general elections, where you might want to leave the EU but don't trust a group of middle-aged men in the pub to fix the economy. It's the European bastard elections, and they got slightly more than 1 in 4 who agree with them. Yet somehow we're supposed to take this as a resounding victory. Beats me.

It's like having a vote with your mates about where you want to go out to eat. 2 people say Pizza Express, and 13 others each vote for a different chicken place. 1 KFC, 1 Nandos etc, and then saying that as a group you prefer pizza to chicken.

[Hoboh]

I still don't get it. Barely 1 in 4 people who voted voted for UKIP. For every one vote cast for a party who want to leave the EU, slightly more than 2 voted for a party who want to stay in. In elections about the EU! It's not the local elections, where you might want to leave the EU but not vote UKIP coz their policy on the bins is sus. It's not the general elections, where you might want to leave the EU but don't trust a group of middle-aged men in the pub to fix the economy. It's the European bastard elections, and they got slightly more than 1 in 4 who agree with them. Yet somehow we're supposed to take this as a resounding victory. Beats me.

It's like having a vote with your mates about where you want to go out to eat. 2 people say Pizza Express, and 13 others each vote for a different chicken place. 1 KFC, 1 Nandos etc, and then saying that as a group you prefer pizza to chicken.

So you think everyone that voted tory is pro Europe then, not just following party loyalty?
Same for Labour?
At least the Lib dems found out how many of their supportors were actually pro EU?

I'll help you out here

HOLD A REFERENDUM then you'll know for sure

[bobo the clown]

↑↑↑ Pru .... you are determined to pretend (????) to be dim about this arithmetic aren't you.

It's fair to presume that UKIP want a referendum .... 27.5%
The Tories have stated they will hold one if in power, albeit after trying to renegotiate the terms and many hoping they won't need to ... 24%.

That's over 51% committed to one.

Your presumption that every Labour supporter is pro Europe is staggeringly naive.

I do hope Maths wasn't a strong point in that education so expensively garnered.

I've said before ... by all means be non-democratic. Just realise that's what you are.

[Bruce Rioja]

OK, bickering over numbers aside, we now have more UKIP MEPs than we have of any other party, that's how it is.

So, what I want to know now is what'll happen as a result? What'll change? Anything? Nothing?

[Prufrock]

Everyone? No. But no-one is suggesting that if a general election were held tomorrow that UKIP would get even remotely close to 27% of the vote, so clearly partisanship doesn't explain the results. You also make the equal assumption that everyone who voted UKIP does want to leave, and wasn't just making a protest vote. As above, I'd guess there were a few, but not many.

You can't say that people who don't vote can't whinge (which is correct) but then try to co-opt the support of people who voted for parties whose express policy is staying in. They can't whinge anymore than those who didn't vote if, instead, they voted for the wrong party.

So: either the vast majority of the 65-70% of people who voted for the 'IN' parties want to stay in; or, in elections solely about Europe they, whilst wanting to leave the EU, didn't care enough about it to vote for a party committed to leaving the EU.

[Prufrock]

↑↑↑ Peru .... you are determined to pretend (????) to be dim about this arithmetic aren't you.

It's fair to presume that UK I want a referendum .... 27.5%
The Tories have stated they will hold one if in power, albeit after trying to renegotiate the terms and many hoping they won't need to ... 24%.

That's over 51% committed to one.

Your presumption that every Labour supporter is pro Europe is staggeringly naive.

I do hope Maths wasn't a strong point in that education so expensively garnered.

I've said before ... by all means be non-democratic. Just realise that's what you are.

It's not undemocratic. My point all along has been there's no point having a referendum if there is no real prospect of success. It's all well and good saying the Tories are committed to having a referendum, but they're committed to winning it by staying in. I'm all for a referendum once there's evidence of even a chance of success. What's undemocratic about that? Unless you think anyone who opposes a referendum on any issue at all is undemocratic?

Your maths is right, it's just right about the wrong question. You're concentrating on the question if having a referendum for the sake of having a referendum. I'm not interested in a vanity project costing £ms. We did that with AV, and whilst I voted for it, I'll admit completely it was a waste of f*cking time and money with no prospect of success. There is no set of numbers no matter how twisted which suggests there is a majority who want to leave the EU.

It's also laughable to type in the same post that my views are undemocratic and then suggest that it's naive to think every Labour supporter is pro Europe. Well, if we're talking the 25%, they just voted for them in a European election! It's a little undemocratic to start ignoring the awkward fact of who they voted for. It's staggeringly naive to suggest that every Labour supporter voted Labour, or that every UKIP supporter wants to leave the EU and isn't protest voting.

IMO, taking together all the evidence of recent elections and polls, it's pretty clear to me that the British public a) definitively want to remain in the EU and b) want to see govts renegotiate that relationship within the EU to give more emphasis on national govts (whatever that actually means).