Rant.

[TANGODANCER]

No new debate, but from this mornings Metro:

Greater Manchester is considering a bid to the government for a three billion pound project for traffic control etc. Basically they are looking at massive congestion charges reaching to Bolton, Wigan, Rochdale, Stockport, Leigh, Altrincham etc etc. This will force a lot of people onto an already overcrowded and badly run public transport system just to get to work. Anyone travelling after 9-30 (ie shoppers, daytrippers, footballers wives and Wayne Rooney's bride to be)will not be affected. Bottom line, it will only hit the workers. Great.

I don't drive to work anymore, but I do use public transport. Just to get to Manchester from Bolton and home involves getting
into a survival fight (half the time with holiday travellers and thirty ton of suitcases going to the airport) and very rarely getting a seat. I do however think it most unfair on drivers going to and from work having to pay for the cost of all this. Just another example of government fairness.

Rant over.

[a1]

ken livingstone should pay for his own taxis out of his own wage

[Bruce Rioja]

Does anyone know how this might affect me, in so far as I live inside the M60 but work outside it?

[superjohnmcginlay]

Does anyone know how this might affect me, in so far as I live inside the M60 but work outside it?

Yeah. They'll take you for all they can get.

[TANGODANCER]

Does anyone know how this might affect me, in so far as I live inside the M60 but work outside it?

It's all specualation right now Bruce and they claim they won't initiate it until sufficient public transport services are in place. Way I understand it the M60 is the outer ring and the inner area is the city centre. If you live inside the M60 they'll probably nab you going to work but they claim it's peak hours only. Then again, the goalposts may move.

[Lennon]

Any suggestions of better ways to decrease congestion, or is this just an instinctive rant?

[InsaneApache]

Any suggestions of better ways to decrease congestion, or is this just an instinctive rant?

Raise the driving age from 17 to 45.

[TANGODANCER]

Any suggestions of better ways to decrease congestion, or is this just an instinctive rant?

Morning Lennon. Take it you don't work in the Manchester area then?

[Lennon]

Any suggestions of better ways to decrease congestion, or is this just an instinctive rant?

Morning Lennon. Take it you don't work in the Manchester area then?

Morning TD.

No, I don't. I have to drive through Preston to get to work though, and the traffic is absolutely horrendous every day, without fail. I'd welcome anything which might reduce the congestion. If it failed miserably, that'd be another story, but as long as the local government was atleast trying, they'd get my full support.

[Bench]

I can't see this reducing congestion at all - I don't believe it has been too successful in London, so why here?

As Tango said:

This will force a lot of people onto an already overcrowded and badly run public transport system just to get to work.

And yes, they'll claim that the increased revenue would be used to support and fund improvements to the rail network. Hindssign would suggest that they continued to extend the Metrolink........

[InsaneApache]

Wake up guys, it's just another tax.

Quite simple really.

[TANGODANCER]

Any suggestions of better ways to decrease congestion, or is this just an instinctive rant?

Morning Lennon. Take it you don't work in the Manchester area then?

Morning TD.

No, I don't. I have to drive through Preston to get to work though, and the traffic is absolutely horrendous every day, without fail. I'd welcome anything which might reduce the congestion. If it failed miserably, that'd be another story, but as long as the local government was atleast trying, they'd get my full support.

Whilst I don't drive now, I did for a fair few years into Manchester and twenty years of driving into Liverpool prior to that. (When I first started that the East Lancs was three lane with a "suicide" overtaking lane) It got progressively worse and has always been that way. All this will do is deter people for a while and then they'll go back to driving. When that happens the GMT will just bang up the costs and rake in even more money for the simple reason the town centre and its access roads are full. They cannot expand any more. You cannot put two pounds of sugar into a one-pound bag. The only answer is for firms to relocate to other areas and eventually that will cause havoc.

The only real solution is a better organised system of public transport. That at least might work...for a time.

[wovlad]

[quote="TANGODANCER"]No new debate, but from this mornings Metro:

Greater Manchester is considering a bid to the government for a three billion pound project for traffic control etc. Basically they are looking at massive congestion charges reaching to Bolton, Wigan, Rochdale, Stockport, Leigh, Altrincham etc etc. This will force a lot of people onto an already overcrowded and badly run public transport system just to get to work. Anyone travelling after 9-30 (ie shoppers, daytrippers, footballers wives and Wayne Rooney's bride to be)will not be affected. Bottom line, it will only hit the workers. Great.

I don't drive to work anymore, but I do use public transport. Just to get to Manchester from Bolton and home involves getting
into a survival fight (half the time with holiday travellers and thirty ton of suitcases going to the airport) and very rarely getting a seat. I do however think it most unfair on drivers going to and from work having to pay for the cost of all this. Just another example of government fairness.

Rant over

Only way it can work is the re-nationalisation of the railways. They should never have been privatised
it in the first place and its gone to pot ever since. Second Highest rail fares in Europe for an already crap service. Rail prices will go up, fact. Its not in the rail companies interest not to. 16% increases in train travel over the last couple of years. Has the price gone down. Hell no up by over 12%.

[Hoboh]

Any suggestions of better ways to decrease congestion, or is this just an instinctive rant?

Stop the Half to a Mile and half school run that cloggs up the roads between 8 & 9.30am and let the kids get some excersise and fresh air!

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Only way it can work is the re-nationalisation of the railways. They should never have been privatised
it in the first place and its gone to pot ever since. Second Highest rail fares in Europe for an already crap service. Rail prices will go up, fact. Its not in the rail companies interest not to. 16% increases in train travel over the last couple of years. Has the price gone down. Hell no up by over 12%.

Comparing rail prices and levels of service against the rest of Europe is pointless if you ignore government intervention and subsidies. The Road Lobby in the UK has been dominant for over forty years, thereby condemning the railways to inadequate infrastructure, aging and scarce rolling stock, and a total lack of worthwhile investment. This is not a party political issue either. The Road Lobby has held sway through Conservative and Labour administrations alike.

[superjohnmcginlay]

Selective charging, now I dont know how you'd go about it cos its not my bloody job to organise these things. Have certain periods during the day when only certain traffic is allowed on major routes. eg m62 between junctions 30 and 23 4-7pm work traffic only. Anybody else gets charged - lots.

[Lennon]

Another option is to encourage lift-sharing. The vast majority of cars you see during rush hour contain lone drivers.
It's not the governments fault we choose to drive to work alone in cars that can seat up to 5 people.
Aswell as reducing congestion (and therefore pollution), it also cuts individual fuel costs, so everyone's a winner.

There are some actions we can take ourselves rather than moaning at the government to do it for us.

[TANGODANCER]

Another option is to encourage lift-sharing. The vast majority of cars you see during rush hour contain lone drivers.
It's not the governments fault we choose to drive to work alone in cars that can seat up to 5 people.
Aswell as reducing congestion (and therefore pollution), it also cuts individual fuel costs, so everyone's a winner.

There are some actions we can take ourselves rather than moaning at the government to do it for us.

Tried that one time. Got totally pissed off at waiting for people who couldn't get out of bed or didn't turn up making me (who'd got up in time) late for work. Even had to knock some of them up as we needed them on the job. Not a total solution IMO.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Another option is to encourage lift-sharing. The vast majority of cars you see during rush hour contain lone drivers.
It's not the governments fault we choose to drive to work alone in cars that can seat up to 5 people.
Aswell as reducing congestion (and therefore pollution), it also cuts individual fuel costs, so everyone's a winner.

There are some actions we can take ourselves rather than moaning at the government to do it for us.

In many parts of North America, during rush hour, the fast lane on the highway is reserved for buses, taxis and cars with passengers. That is how we encourage lift sharing, and it seems to work. Of course, people cheat but they do get caught in police traps. One enterprising chap had an inflatable dummy in his passenger seat but they got him in the end.

[Lennon]

Tried that one time. Got totally pissed off at waiting for people who couldn't get out of bed or didn't turn up making me (who'd got up in time) late for work. Even had to knock some of them up as we needed them on the job. Not a total solution IMO.

Well obviously, I'm not saying it would resolve the problem. It's another option though.
I've lift-shared on many occassions with various people, and never had a problem. In fact, it saved me money, encouraged me to be far more punctual, and also meant both me and my lift-share had a back-up plan incase of mechanical problems, so there's the balance.