Oscar Pistorius

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Worthy4England
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:59 am

It's nearly "that time" - Thursday I believe.

Wonder if months with two pencils up his nostrils has convinced anyone he's a fcuking nutter?

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Salford Trotter » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:22 pm

I can't see beyond a 'Guilty of premeditated murder' verdict....minimum of 25 years, he would deserve every day too.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by bobo the clown » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:24 pm

It not being a jury trial, I agree. If it was then his fame could well have swayed it.
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by bobo the clown » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:23 am

Thee judge is summing up her take on the evidence right now. Early days but at a guess she'll be looking at guilt on one step below premeditated murder, and one step above manslaughter (culpable homicide).
Common-law murder
"Unlawfully intended to kill in the heat of the moment but without "malice aforethought"."
Either: Shot door intending to kill, or knew someone might be killed and still fired gun
Minimum of 15 years up to 20 years, at judge's discretion
Obviously appeals etc. if he is found guilty, which could take an age, but here, for this level of crime, I think you'd normally do that from behind bars, unless I'm greatly mistaken.

Apparently it's not uncommon there for richer folk to get in a claim in that they are seriously unwell and in danger of self-harming if kept in jail, and so need gentler, hospital treatment in soft institutions from which, once declared well after a quite short period, you may find yourself released. It's far from uncommon then that people go on to be quite the celebrity and book, TV & 'celebrity' deals follow. I know nothing more but was reading about that yesterday. If it's correct I think we can anticipate hat will happen.
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:42 am

feck* looks like getting away with it.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:44 am

"How could the accused have reasonably foreseen the shot he fired would have killed the deceased? Clearly he did not subjectively foresee this, that he would have killed the person behind the door, let alone the deceased," says Judge Masipa.

What. The. feck?
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by ChrisC » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:45 am

He will get manslaughter.. not a chance he is walking out a free man.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:47 am

ChrisC wrote:He will get manslaughter.. not a chance he is walking out a free man.
Of course, sorry I meant relatively get away with it.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Lord Kangana » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:51 am

Clearly he killed someone. I'm pretty certain he admitted to that.

I don't think there's enough evidence to prove premeditated murder (the only other witness to prove this beyond reasonable doubt being dead).

He'll get something, but it'll probably hover somewhere around manslaughter. I don't see how the evidence presented can "prove" much more? (Regardless of what we feel to be obvious).
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:51 am

LeverEnd wrote:
ChrisC wrote:He will get manslaughter.. not a chance he is walking out a free man.
Of course, sorry I meant relatively get away with it.

To recap: Judge Thokozile Masipa has now dismissed all the possible murder charges in the Oscar Pistorius trial. The only two remaining charges are either culpable homicide or acquittal.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Lord Kangana » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:59 am

What does culpable homicide entail then?
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:04 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:What does culpable homicide entail then?
Killing someone by accident I suppose. Not entirely sure though.
Apparently the sentencing is flexible, presumably depending on how culpable she thinks he was and to what extent it could have been avoided.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:52 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Lord Kangana wrote:What does culpable homicide entail then?
Killing someone by accident I suppose. Not entirely sure though.
Apparently the sentencing is flexible, presumably depending on how culpable she thinks he was and to what extent it could have been avoided.
I think it is like manslaughter but with added 'fire your gun 4 times through a door and you're probably going to hurt someone pretty bad, so not your average oops'.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by ChrisC » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:30 pm

What a waste of a day.. got a far as to say that he did use excessive force and then said we will stop here and proceed at 9.30am tomorrow. Its only half 1 woman!! get a full days graft in!

Pretty much confirms he will get manslaughter or similar anyway.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Salford Trotter » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:51 pm

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
LeverEnd wrote:
Lord Kangana wrote:What does culpable homicide entail then?
Killing someone by accident I suppose. Not entirely sure though.
Apparently the sentencing is flexible, presumably depending on how culpable she thinks he was and to what extent it could have been avoided.
I think it is like manslaughter but with added 'fire your gun 4 times through a door and you're probably going to hurt someone pretty bad, so not your average oops'.
Surely that is murder then...i have no doubt the Prosecution Counsel will be lodging an appeal
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:45 pm

Salford Trotter wrote:
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
LeverEnd wrote:
Lord Kangana wrote:What does culpable homicide entail then?
Killing someone by accident I suppose. Not entirely sure though.
Apparently the sentencing is flexible, presumably depending on how culpable she thinks he was and to what extent it could have been avoided.
I think it is like manslaughter but with added 'fire your gun 4 times through a door and you're probably going to hurt someone pretty bad, so not your average oops'.
Surely that is murder then...i have no doubt the Prosecution Counsel will be lodging an appeal
No, it is not necessarily murder. In South Africa causation is examined.
Crimes of consequence should be distinguished from crimes of circumstance:

A crime of circumstance is one in which it is the situation which is criminal (like the mere possession of an offensive weapon), rather than any result (like murder) which flows from the situation.

A crime of consequence, or a “materially-defined crime,” is one in which the conduct itself is not criminal, but in which the result of that conduct is. It is not unlawful merely to throw a stone; if it is thrown at and hits a person, it is. The precise nature of the crime, furthermore, is contingent on the result: If the stone causes serious injury, the crime will be grievous bodily harm; if it kills a person, the crime could be murder or culpable homicide.

Causation is not a general element of liability.Causation describes the way in which the definitional elements of some crimes are met.

In all consequence crimes, the State bears the onus of proving, beyond a reasonable doubt, that there is a sufficient link between the accused’s initial conduct and the prohibited consequence. If there is no causal link, or if the link is too tenuous, the accused will not be guilty of the crime, although he may perhaps be guilty of an attempt to commit that crime, or of some other offence.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by ChrisC » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:50 pm

Salford Trotter wrote:
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
LeverEnd wrote:
Lord Kangana wrote:What does culpable homicide entail then?
Killing someone by accident I suppose. Not entirely sure though.
Apparently the sentencing is flexible, presumably depending on how culpable she thinks he was and to what extent it could have been avoided.
I think it is like manslaughter but with added 'fire your gun 4 times through a door and you're probably going to hurt someone pretty bad, so not your average oops'.
Surely that is murder then...i have no doubt the Prosecution Counsel will be lodging an appeal
As long as he serves a decent term I think they will let it go. They just want a tick against the box that says convicted/case closed.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Hoboh » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:40 pm

Just shows what a load of bollox the sacred law can be!

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by LeverEnd » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:48 am

What a circus though, according to the news this morning sentencing may be delayed 'for a couple of weeks'. Get on with it FFS!
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by jaffka » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:11 am

Money.

Amazing what it can do.

Nice to see justice is the same all around the world.

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