80mph motorways?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I've just joined a group on Facebook that proposes an increase in the motorway speed limit to 80mph, and added my opinion as follows:

As far as I'm concerned, having motorway speed limits set at 70 mph undermines the entire system of road speed limits. Because modern cars cruise comfortably in the 80-85mph range (and it's actually an effort to stay down at 70), most people break the speed limit regularly on the motorways.

The wider effect of this is a damaging lack of respect for speed limits when they are important. There are some areas where it is crucial that drivers don't exceed 30mph, or even 20mph around schools etc., but because we are conditioned to ignore speed limits because of our motorway experience, people drive too fast in these areas.

It's unhealthy for the law to be so out of step with standard practice. Given that the 70mph limit has been in force since 1965, and vehicle technology in terms of brakes, tires etc has come on a long way since then, I'd say it was time for a review.


Any thoughts?

[communistworkethic]

agree, stopping distances are based on a Ford Anglia. Loads of them on the road now aren't there? A Porsche 911 will stop quicker from 120mph than an anglia would from 70.

There's too much emphasis on speed itself rather than matching speed to conditions - there's plenty of tossers on the m62 still doing 70mph when there's 30feet of visibility in fog, or it's lashing down. Doing 80mph or even 100mph at 3 in the morning with no other traffic around on a motorway in dry, clear conditions isn't unsafe and no where near as dangerous as doing 30 in font of a school at 4pm.

[Worthy4England]

I'm all for open speed limits/variable speed limits like Commie says...at 3 in the morning on the M40, I should be ok to do much quicker.

I do think over the last years, the incumbency for all road safety seems to have fallen entirely on the motorist. When was the last time you read about someone being fined for Jaywalking? The whole solution doesn't seem to be around educating people to use crossings or cross the road safely, it's about getting speed down to a level where it couldn't hurt anyone....

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I should point out that I appreciate that it's not all one way traffic in favour of the 80mph speed limit, if you'll excuse the pun.

Arguably, the situation we have at the moment is that there is a sort of tacit agreement that the speed limit is 80mph. We do have to consider the possibility of a drift to a tacit limit of 90mph, or at least consider the cost of enfocing the new 80mph limit to ensure that this drift didn't occur.

[Worthy4England]

I should point out that I appreciate that it's not all one way traffic in favour of the 80mph speed limit, if you'll excuse the pun.

Arguably, the situation we have at the moment is that there is a sort of tacit agreement that the speed limit is 80mph. We do have to consider the possibility of a drift to a tacit limit of 90mph, or at least consider the cost of enfocing the new 80mph limit to ensure that this drift didn't occur.

I was thinking more of a tacit drift up to.....say 140 should suffice

[communistworkethic]

I should point out that I appreciate that it's not all one way traffic in favour of the 80mph speed limit, if you'll excuse the pun.

Arguably, the situation we have at the moment is that there is a sort of tacit agreement that the speed limit is 80mph. We do have to consider the possibility of a drift to a tacit limit of 90mph, or at least consider the cost of enfocing the new 80mph limit to ensure that this drift didn't occur.

you get a copper to admit that "agreement" exists. The unwritten guide is 10% +3mph, alegedly.

[chris]

I should point out that I appreciate that it's not all one way traffic in favour of the 80mph speed limit, if you'll excuse the pun.

Arguably, the situation we have at the moment is that there is a sort of tacit agreement that the speed limit is 80mph. We do have to consider the possibility of a drift to a tacit limit of 90mph, or at least consider the cost of enfocing the new 80mph limit to ensure that this drift didn't occur.

you get a copper to admit that "agreement" exists. The unwritten guide is 10% +3mph, alegedly.

I was once told by a copper setting sensors that they give 10% + 2

I think it's the relative speed that matters - if one persons doing 100 (or 40) when everyone else is doing 70, you've got a problem.

I want to see limits on minor roads enforced more though.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I should point out that I appreciate that it's not all one way traffic in favour of the 80mph speed limit, if you'll excuse the pun.

Arguably, the situation we have at the moment is that there is a sort of tacit agreement that the speed limit is 80mph. We do have to consider the possibility of a drift to a tacit limit of 90mph, or at least consider the cost of enfocing the new 80mph limit to ensure that this drift didn't occur.

you get a copper to admit that "agreement" exists. The unwritten guide is 10% +3mph, alegedly.

Ha, funny you should say that because I achieved exactly that in front of a room full of witnesses when, about 5 years ago, a policeman came to give a presentation to our sixth form, and I questioned him on the matter!

[TANGODANCER]

I don't drive any more but have done enough in the not too distant past to comment. With the amount of accidents and deaths daily, plus the ever-increasing number of vehicles already on the motorways, raising the speed limit is just asking for the legions who already exceed it to get worse. If all drivers were balanced and rational individuals it wouldn't be a problem. They aren't and it is.

[fatshaft]

I don't drive any more but have done enough in the not too distant past to comment. With the amount of accidents and deaths daily, plus the ever-increasing number of vehicles already on the motorways, raising the speed limit is just asking for the legions who already exceed it to get worse. If all drivers were balanced and rational individuals it wouldn't be a problem. They aren't and it is.

Accidents and deaths on Motorways are comparitively rare though TD, that's not where the problem occurs.

[a1]

shoot feck-ers who dont have licenses/insurance first before raising any speedlimits ..

Shit like Traffik KKKops does my head in ..

"right you've not insurance , or MOT , youve never had a license, you were speeding with no lights on at nite , you just nearly run over 2 toddlers coz you were on your phone.. but i'll just do you for one today coz i'm in a good mood [whichever means less fine] , turn up to court on tuesday and pay £4 on tick @ 1 penny a week .. i'll let you drive off now"..

[Voice Over] Mr CuntFacedScally never did pay his fine [/voiceover]

put them all in a room and set it on fire.. sorted.

[TANGODANCER]

I don't drive any more but have done enough in the not too distant past to comment. With the amount of accidents and deaths daily, plus the ever-increasing number of vehicles already on the motorways, raising the speed limit is just asking for the legions who already exceed it to get worse. If all drivers were balanced and rational individuals it wouldn't be a problem. They aren't and it is.

Accidents and deaths on Motorways are comparitively rare though TD, that's not where the problem occurs.

Get a quick overnight frost or, Lord forbid a small snowfall followed by freezing, then repeat that. The Highway Code is for learning to pass driving tests, after that it goes out the window.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I don't drive any more but have done enough in the not too distant past to comment. With the amount of accidents and deaths daily, plus the ever-increasing number of vehicles already on the motorways, raising the speed limit is just asking for the legions who already exceed it to get worse. If all drivers were balanced and rational individuals it wouldn't be a problem. They aren't and it is.

Accidents and deaths on Motorways are comparitively rare though TD, that's not where the problem occurs.

And of those that do occur, I'd wager that most are caused by plain bad driving rather than speed - poor lane discipline, lack of concentration, misjudging of conditions, bunching etc. In fact, I'd expect a higher speed limit to actually improve some of those things.

[chris]

I don't drive any more but have done enough in the not too distant past to comment. With the amount of accidents and deaths daily, plus the ever-increasing number of vehicles already on the motorways, raising the speed limit is just asking for the legions who already exceed it to get worse. If all drivers were balanced and rational individuals it wouldn't be a problem. They aren't and it is.

Accidents and deaths on Motorways are comparitively rare though TD, that's not where the problem occurs.

But when they do happen, the speed makes then more horrific.

On the whole, I'm happy with the limit as it is. (Though I have never driven)

[Batman]

Why do we need to change it?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

But when they do happen, the speed makes then more horrific.

Which, of course, assumes that actual speeds would increase with the speed limit. It might sound like I'm being cryptic, but part of my argument is that the fact that the majority of drivers regularly exceed the speed limit is harmful to the overall level of respect for traffic regulations. I honestly believe that if people thought that the entire speed limit system was reasonable and realistic, they would actually lower their speed in the areas where it is most important.

I just think that, on balance, a more 'reasonable' motorway speed limit that is enforced, is more healthy than an unreasonable one that is not.

Another argument, of course, is that we might be prepared to tolerate a greater degree of 'horror' in a few more accidents, in return for appropriate benefits. We could dramatically reduce the number of 'horrific' accidents tomorrow if we slashed all speed limits by 40% and enforced the policy strictly. The fact is, we choose not to do this because we think that the benefits of higher speed limits outweight the costs of the deaths and injuries that could be prevented by lowering them.

It sounds heartless, but that is just the reality of a lot of decision-making, and all I am asking for is a more updated look at this cost-benefit analysis, and speculating as to whether we might find the appropriate balance to be somewhere different than it was when it the exercise was carried out in 1965.

[TANGODANCER]

Ever blown a tyre at over 80mph Mummy? I have (on a French Motorway). I never wanted it to happen again, believe me. I doubt if the relations of anyone killed in motorway accidents will back your campaign. And of course, at 80mph everyone is going to drive the required distance away from you and not tailgate you. This is England, remember.

[chris]

1 in 200 people will die in a road accident. That may not seem much, but in perspective, if you take a typical Reebok attendance, 100 of those there will die on the roads. I don't think 'tolerating' it is the way forward.

I just think increasing the limit would mean everyone does 90, and can't see how that can be inforced.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Ever blown a tyre at over 80mph Mummy? I have (on a French Motorway). I never wanted it to happen again, believe me. I doubt if the relations of anyone killed in motorway accidents will back your campaign. And of course, at 80mph everyone is going to drive the required distance away from you and not tailgate you. This is England, remember.

No I haven't, but it's precisely that sort of thing that I consider to be much less common with modern cars and tyres.

All for distance between cars... I'm saying that's an example of bad driving that is more harmful than speed per se. I actually think there is an argument that says there would be less tailgating if the speed limit were 80. For one thing, it would stop those bloody minded bastards who occupy the wrong lane from saying self-righteously "I'm doing the speed limit, so those behind have no legal cause for passing me anyway."

And, we've all seen how cars become bunched when everyone on the road does 70mph because of the presence of a police car!

I appreciate that some of what I'm saying about the economics has an uncomfortable and emotive quality, causing you to mention the families of of those killed on motorways - but what I'm saying is that the only way to look at this sensibly is to admit that we do tolerate some deaths in return for benefits. If our main policy aim were to reduce road deaths to a minimum, then we might reduce all speed limits by 50%, install speed limiters on cars, or ban cars altogether, but the uncomfortable truth is that from the economist's point of view, society considers that saving those lives is not worth the cost, or, if you perfer, foregoing the benefits that such a policy would entail.

[Dujon]

It's unhealthy for the law to be so out of step with standard practice. Given that the 70mph limit has been in force since 1965, and vehicle technology in terms of brakes, tires etc has come on a long way since then, I'd say it was time for a review.

I'd say that 'standard practice' is out of step with the law.

Motorway speed limits here, in general, are roughly the same as in the UK (110 Km/h). To round up 80 mph gives 130 km/h. From my experience of daily travelling on a motorway the fast lane in flowing peak hour is around the 130 km/h level. There's nothing wrong with that, in my opinion - except that most drivers plant their collective right foot and motor along less than a couple of car lengths behind the vehicle in front of them. Should one leave a decent gap between oneself and the vehicle in front then someone in the left lane will slide across to fill it.

I am convinced that many drivers are either ignorant of or choose to ignore the basic laws of physics while at the same time having no idea as to the time it takes to recognise and react to an event. In perfect conditions using a vehicle with tip-top brakes and tyres in good nick it will take over 100 metres to bring a vehicle travelling at 80 mph to rest. I cannot vouch for the authenticity of the information included on these sites, but it bears thinking about. There is one each from Australia, the UK and America.

http://www.science.org.au/nova/058/058key.htm

http://www.hintsandthings.co.uk/garage/stopmph.htm

http://www.csgnetwork.com/stopdistinfo.html