What are you watching tonight?

[Dujon]

Nothing at the moment but, come two o'clock Sunday morning, I'll be watching the mighty Trotters demolish the Middensbrough at theirs.

Yes, I finally caved in and purchased a satellite connection to everyone's favourite Foxtel. At the most civilised hour of 1000 a couple of days ago I watched a replay of Us v The Puddle. Apart from the final 35 minutes of the first half I thought we played rather well. All I need now is to work out my sleep/wake time so as to accommodate such dreadful hours.

Perhaps Veni Vidi Vici will now really mean something.

Tally Ho!

[SuperWhiteWarrior]

King Of The Hill at 8pm.

[Prufrock]

Quite to the contrary. Always excelled in English at school and that's what I'm still doing at College along with History and Communications. Find the things I learn in them far more useful than anything I might learn by studying crazy maths. Ok with basic algebra but then it just gets to a stage where it takes the piss.

A few of my mates do maths at A-level though, and I do marvel at how they can do it. It's a completely different way of thinking and you have to be extrmely skilled to do well. I look at one of thier worksheets and I might as well be reading a different language.

Lit. or language? I did english language, history and media at college, and ended up doing Politics and Economics at uni.

Indeed, whenever I look at some of the equations Mech Eng. students deal with it's like reading a foreign language. Having said that, whenever I told them I had a 3000 word essay to do they look at me like I'm insane.

Yup, different people, different skills and all that.

Re English, I do English Lit and Lang combined. Nice combination that allows you to create original writing as well as analysing literature. Still trying to decide what to do at Uni. Thinking along the lines of journalism or English and Comms combined.

How was doing politics and economics at Uni, given that you hadn't done either at college?

Cool I was always more inclined to writing and analysing my own work which is why i plumped for language. I've got into reading books a lot more recently though.

I was going to do journalism, had Kingston and UCLAN in my thoughts as they seem to offer good degrees on it (The Kingston course FWIW offers placements at national newspapers in their course). Then I had a think and thought I could still get into journalism regardless of degree, so I thought I'd try something different. indeed, when I got to uni, I found myself working for the student newspaper and *touchwood* will be editor next year, so it is the best of both worlds.

The politics bit isn't too bad - once you get your head around the concepts there is a lot of history iinvolved, which was fine by me. Economics on the otherhand...f*cking hell, it's tough at the beginning as for us we shared lectures with people doing straight economics, so you were chucked in at the deep end. Worked through it though and when second year rolled around I was pretty comfortable with it.

You in your final year of college then or first?

Ah cool. Yeah it seems that way about Journalism, which is why I've been rethinking whether to do Journalism at Uni. Reckon that having a degree in such a specific subject might count against me, if i were not to make it in that field. Besides, not sure I want to be associated wit the filth that qualifies for journalism nowadays, especially given this weeks events. I think it must be quite an amoral job at times.

Think that I might take an English combined with Communication studies course, as it will be a perfect fit for me and allow me a more wide spectrum of career possibilities.

Yeah, in my final year so its coming to that time of applying. Bit of a minefield searching around trying to find courses and Uni's!

Not entirely sure what's happened to this thread, but to your options Dax, if you are final year college, i am three years ahead of you, and im scared. From what i've heard, talking to various journalism friends an aquaintances, the market isnt great. Im doing a very general degree in classics, which has quite a high employment rate statistically (which of course doesnt necessarily mean anything in real terms) and im worried about options. I havent gone out in the job market yet, so perhaps the advice of others who are out there is worth more, but i have 18 months left, and if i was starting out again, I would either be looking to a very vocational degree, with a direct path into a profession, or i would be looking for a general, yet well respected degree that gives a lot of scope for future progression. Either way, good luck squire.

[communistworkethic]

anyone taking 'media studies' or 'communication' or some such has basically wasted 3 years of their lives as all it's done is give them a huge debt and no extra employment prospects. There are more people starting media studies degrees this year than there are jobs in the media. And journalism will pay you about £14k to start, in london, big wooo.

[William the White]

anyone taking 'media studies' or 'communication' or some such has basically wasted 3 years of their lives as all it's done is give them a huge debt and no extra employment prospects. There are more people starting media studies degrees this year than there are jobs in the media. And journalism will pay you about £14k to start, in london, big wooo.

I doubt this. It's a minority of graduates that obtain employment in their field of study anyway, and these are mostly craft-based or highly technical subjetc - engineering, built envirinment etc. Very few history graduates become historians. Very few philosophy graduates become philosophers, very few English ones become literary critics.

Any evidence that media studies, communications graduates are highly unemployable? I doubt that there is any, though it's certainly a popular assumption.

I do know that in a media saturated world the study of the subject increases in importance.

[ratbert]

There aren't that many journalism jobs around at the moment, least not locally and none of them pay very well. And it's no longer the stepping stone to the nationals it used to be as most Fleet Street titles take top-level graduates only and throw them straight into in-house training schemes.

Most of my Uni friends did Literature and History and now work in nursing, admin, or transport. One is an engineer. And another mate who did engineering is now a copper!

Whatever you do at Uni, unless you have a very clear career path you're likely to end up where you least expected to.

[TANGODANCER]

What the hell programme are you lot watching?

[keveh]

God knows but it sounds boring!

[communistworkethic]

anyone taking 'media studies' or 'communication' or some such has basically wasted 3 years of their lives as all it's done is give them a huge debt and no extra employment prospects. There are more people starting media studies degrees this year than there are jobs in the media. And journalism will pay you about £14k to start, in london, big wooo.

I doubt this. It's a minority of graduates that obtain employment in their field of study anyway, and these are mostly craft-based or highly technical subjetc - engineering, built envirinment etc. Very few history graduates become historians. Very few philosophy graduates become philosophers, very few English ones become literary critics.

Any evidence that media studies, communications graduates are highly unemployable? I doubt that there is any, though it's certainly a popular assumption.

I do know that in a media saturated world the study of the subject increases in importance.

well put it this way, I do one of the jobs they think they'll be qualified to do and they're not. In fact, most are barely literate and have none of the softer skills they need, I've lost count of the number who I've seen who have been less than useles. There's just a glut of graduates coming along with these 2:2s in these mickey mouse subjects, they're two a penny. I want someone with a brain, if you've picked Media Studies, you've gone for the soft option and not thought, you're immediately at the back of the queue.

[William the White]

anyone taking 'media studies' or 'communication' or some such has basically wasted 3 years of their lives as all it's done is give them a huge debt and no extra employment prospects. There are more people starting media studies degrees this year than there are jobs in the media. And journalism will pay you about £14k to start, in london, big wooo.

I doubt this. It's a minority of graduates that obtain employment in their field of study anyway, and these are mostly craft-based or highly technical subjetc - engineering, built envirinment etc. Very few history graduates become historians. Very few philosophy graduates become philosophers, very few English ones become literary critics.

Any evidence that media studies, communications graduates are highly unemployable? I doubt that there is any, though it's certainly a popular assumption.

I do know that in a media saturated world the study of the subject increases in importance.

well put it this way, I do one of the jobs they think they'll be qualified to do and they're not. In fact, most are barely literate and have none of the softer skills they need, I've lost count of the number who I've seen who have been less than useles. There's just a glut of graduates coming along with these 2:2s in these mickey mouse subjects, they're two a penny. I want someone with a brain, if you've picked Media Studies, you've gone for the soft option and not thought, you're immediately at the back of the queue.

No more a mickey mouse subject than - say - English Literature, Art History, Moral Philosophy, Sociology and any number of well-established subjects, pretty much all of which met hosility and lack of comprehension when introdued to the university curricula. And all pretty much in the last 120 years. Even the study of medicine was looked on with disfavour in 15th century france - on the grounds that universities were needed only to enable our knowledge of God to be enhanced.

It's a pity if you've only met Media students of limited ability. All subjects will have starry graduates and the poor to mediocre. Have you thought why you're only capable of attracting the latter to your business?

[Daxter]

Cheers for the words Pru btw.

Just a point about Media studies and Communication studies. I took Media at GCSE and it was a joke. Irrelevant tosh that was unlikely to be applied in the real world, and it was a breeze to pass. They let you take the exam home beforehand ffs! As far as I know its much the same at AS/A2.

Comms on the other side I've found useful. A lot of it is pyschology based, and a lot about the way the media/culture try to manipulate us. Also teaches a lot you can use in other areas such as giving long individual presentations. Requires creativity and independence. Loads of essays too. It's a far more respectable subject than media IMO. Very similar to a lot of elements of English.

[communistworkethic]

anyone taking 'media studies' or 'communication' or some such has basically wasted 3 years of their lives as all it's done is give them a huge debt and no extra employment prospects. There are more people starting media studies degrees this year than there are jobs in the media. And journalism will pay you about £14k to start, in london, big wooo.

I doubt this. It's a minority of graduates that obtain employment in their field of study anyway, and these are mostly craft-based or highly technical subjetc - engineering, built envirinment etc. Very few history graduates become historians. Very few philosophy graduates become philosophers, very few English ones become literary critics.

Any evidence that media studies, communications graduates are highly unemployable? I doubt that there is any, though it's certainly a popular assumption.

I do know that in a media saturated world the study of the subject increases in importance.

well put it this way, I do one of the jobs they think they'll be qualified to do and they're not. In fact, most are barely literate and have none of the softer skills they need, I've lost count of the number who I've seen who have been less than useles. There's just a glut of graduates coming along with these 2:2s in these mickey mouse subjects, they're two a penny. I want someone with a brain, if you've picked Media Studies, you've gone for the soft option and not thought, you're immediately at the back of the queue.

No more a mickey mouse subject than - say - English Literature, Art History, Moral Philosophy, Sociology and any number of well-established subjects, pretty much all of which met hosility and lack of comprehension when introdued to the university curricula. And all pretty much in the last 120 years. Even the study of medicine was looked on with disfavour in 15th century france - on the grounds that universities were needed only to enable our knowledge of God to be enhanced.

It's a pity if you've only met Media students of limited ability. All subjects will have starry graduates and the poor to mediocre. Have you thought why you're only capable of attracting the latter to your business?

yes, it's down to the business. yes with 10,000 other employees it's the business's issue that media studies students are stupid an uneducated. In fact I don't draw the line there. The level of literacy amongst graduates is shocking. And to suggest parity between English literature and Media Studies is silly.

Are you a teacher by chance William? If so, you're probably a good indication of the problem in our education system, you don't want to listen to employers. Those people who could actually tell people what they need from employees.

[Lord Kangana]

Maybe capitals at the start of your sentences would make your argument a little more valid?

[Bruce Rioja]

Rick Stein's Food Heroes.

[Lord Kangana]

Rick Stein's Food Heroes.

Which side?

[Verbal]

well put it this way, I do one of the jobs they think they'll be qualified to do and they're not. In fact, most are barely literate and have none of the softer skills they need, I've lost count of the number who I've seen who have been less than useles. There's just a glut of graduates coming along with these 2:2s in these mickey mouse subjects, they're two a penny. I want someone with a brain, if you've picked Media Studies, you've gone for the soft option and not thought, you're immediately at the back of the queue.

Well if your company is employing them they clearly ain't too far back in the queue. And if they're that bad why not have a more scrutinous employment process? Or throw every application form with 'media' in the degree spec. into the bin, as bobo has said he does?

I've said my piece on media students before on here, in some long lost thread, as I did it at A Level. I'll save it for now as I'm blatantly going to get shot down for it.

[Prufrock]

Cheers for the words Pru btw.

Just a point about Media studies and Communication studies. I took Media at GCSE and it was a joke. Irrelevant tosh that was unlikely to be applied in the real world, and it was a breeze to pass. They let you take the exam home beforehand ffs! As far as I know its much the same at AS/A2.

Comms on the other side I've found useful. A lot of it is pyschology based, and a lot about the way the media/culture try to manipulate us. Also teaches a lot you can use in other areas such as giving long individual presentations. Requires creativity and independence. Loads of essays too. It's a far more respectable subject than media IMO. Very similar to a lot of elements of English.

No worries Dax, what i will say is, despite his confrontational style, i dont disagree with Commie. Whilst Communications studies might well teach the skills you say it does, and i dont doubt it if you, with experience, say it does, perception is something you must, must bear in mind. By which, i dont mean a degree in media, or communication, or any other degree per se is bad, but, as an example, 90% of students who go to Bolton University, are going to be looked at sceptically by employers, however, if you go there to do engineering, Bolton is well respected. You have to try to find a balance between a good degree, and a university that is strong in that degree. Not only that, if you do a degree that is less traditionally well regarded, you HAVE to do well in it. A media studies graduate, coming out of a well regarded uni, with a first, wont do badly. If you come out with anything less than a 2:1, in ANYTHING, you are in trouble. All that is according to friends a few years above who have graduated and found it easy/hard, but thats what i have heard/seen/found.

[Daxter]

Cheers for the words Pru btw.

Just a point about Media studies and Communication studies. I took Media at GCSE and it was a joke. Irrelevant tosh that was unlikely to be applied in the real world, and it was a breeze to pass. They let you take the exam home beforehand ffs! As far as I know its much the same at AS/A2.

Comms on the other side I've found useful. A lot of it is pyschology based, and a lot about the way the media/culture try to manipulate us. Also teaches a lot you can use in other areas such as giving long individual presentations. Requires creativity and independence. Loads of essays too. It's a far more respectable subject than media IMO. Very similar to a lot of elements of English.

No worries Dax, what i will say is, despite his confrontational style, i dont disagree with Commie. Whilst Communications studies might well teach the skills you say it does, and i dont doubt it if you, with experience, say it does, perception is something you must, must bear in mind. By which, i dont mean a degree in media, or communication, or any other degree per se is bad, but, as an example, 90% of students who go to Bolton University, are going to be looked at sceptically by employers, however, if you go there to do engineering, Bolton is well respected. You have to try to find a balance between a good degree, and a university that is strong in that degree. Not only that, if you do a degree that is less traditionally well regarded, you HAVE to do well in it. A media studies graduate, coming out of a well regarded uni, with a first, wont do badly. If you come out with anything less than a 2:1, in ANYTHING, you are in trouble. All that is according to friends a few years above who have graduated and found it easy/hard, but thats what i have heard/seen/found.

Yeah, It's all completely vaild and I'm fully aware that whatever you choose, you need to do make sure you excel in it and end up with at LEAST a 2:1. Luckily my AS grades(and in turn my predicted grades) have given me a pretty much free choice of where to go. In terms of what I'd take, I wouldn't dream of taking a stand alone Comms degree. That simply would be too risky, and with the perception it carries, rightly or wrongly, it wouldn't be worth it. Not to mention I'd doubt it'd me a meaty enough subject on it's own. What I've been thinking of doing is a joint honours course; English with Communications. All reading I've done so far on the course, seems to indicate it's a good combination and provides you with good prospects. Combine that with doing it at a well respected Uni, that's the route I'm thinking of. Anyone know of the pros and cons of joint honours courses?

[Zulus Thousand of em]

If you are going to take an English degree you really ought to sort out that "it's" or "its" thingy!

Sorry, only joking.

[William the White]

The level of literacy amongst graduates is shocking. And to suggest parity between English literature and Media Studies is silly.

Are you a teacher by chance William? If so, you're probably a good indication of the problem in our education system, you don't want to listen to employers. Those people who could actually tell people what they need from employees.[/quote]

I teach in a university. And am a writer.

I work with employers all the time. I supervise placements in industry, bring in professional speakers and take groups out to places of work.

I think that's common practice, and is certainly where I want it to be. Outstanding Media graduates (not my subject, by the way, I've no vested interest here) will display outstanding graduate skills. Mediocre English Lit graduates will display mediocre graduate skills. It's important that universities study Media because media has a more prominent function, greater role, immensely more power (often abused) than ever before. It would be neglectful not to do some serious critical thinking about it.

That said - I think there is a significant set of problems that arise from broadening access to university - and we haven't yet found ways of resolving them. And yes, there is an enduring literacy problem in our society, throughout our education system.

Have we abused this thread enough?

Don't know what I'm watching tonight but i'm really looking forward to The Devil's Whore on Wednesday. [/quote]