The Politics Thread

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Who will you be voting for?

Labour
12
40%
Conservatives
11
37%
Liberal Democrats
2
7%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
3
10%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
3%
Planet Hobo
1
3%
 
Total votes: 30

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Abdoulaye's Twin
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:26 pm

Nicko58 wrote:
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote: Won't vote Labour. As for who, I haven't decided yet. Might not vote at all.
well - there's summat to stand by! bravo! :oyea:

you are very confident that you will be correct in that you don't know who you will vote for, except it won't be labour and you may not vote at all...
I think he's very confident that Corbyn is unelectable. Funny, I heard he got elected to some position this week :wink:
I imagine that when people say that he's unelectable they're referring to a general election rather than the Labour leadership election.
Tongue was firmly in cheek :)

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:27 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:When Blair was elected, the more left wing members of the party had to put aside some of their choices for the greater good. No new council house building, crackdown on welfare, pfi in the NHS etc. Now they have a left leaning leader, can't the centre ground of the party put aside some of their's? I don't get why a Labour supporter wouldn't vote for the party just because JC has been democratically elected leader.
Because it's not a football team. It's about voting for the good of the country. Anyone who voted Blair without thinking he was the best option for the country wants their bumps feeling.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Nicko58 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:28 pm

thebish wrote:
Nicko58 wrote:
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote: Won't vote Labour. As for who, I haven't decided yet. Might not vote at all.
well - there's summat to stand by! bravo! :oyea:

you are very confident that you will be correct in that you don't know who you will vote for, except it won't be labour and you may not vote at all...
I think he's very confident that Corbyn is unelectable. Funny, I heard he got elected to some position this week :wink:
I imagine that when people say that he's unelectable they're referring to a general election rather than the Labour leadership election.

aye... whereas the alternative was to choose Owen Smith who couldn't even get his own party to vote for him... never mind anyone else!
I wasn't endorsing Owen Smith, I was simply suggesting that people are referring, rightly or wrongly, to a general election when they describe Corbyn as unelectable.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:29 pm

As it is, I wouldn't vote for either atm, but I'd be loath to choose between those two awful options. Think I'd probably *just* pick Corbyn, but I'd be tight. Theresa May has had a sweet ride the last couple of years, but I haven't furniture how awful she is!
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Nicko58 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:30 pm

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Nicko58 wrote:
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote: Won't vote Labour. As for who, I haven't decided yet. Might not vote at all.
well - there's summat to stand by! bravo! :oyea:

you are very confident that you will be correct in that you don't know who you will vote for, except it won't be labour and you may not vote at all...
I think he's very confident that Corbyn is unelectable. Funny, I heard he got elected to some position this week :wink:
I imagine that when people say that he's unelectable they're referring to a general election rather than the Labour leadership election.
Tongue was firmly in cheek :)
I thought as much, but you can never sure. :D
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:32 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:When Blair was elected, the more left wing members of the party had to put aside some of their choices for the greater good. No new council house building, crackdown on welfare, pfi in the NHS etc. Now they have a left leaning leader, can't the centre ground of the party put aside some of their's? I don't get why a Labour supporter wouldn't vote for the party just because JC has been democratically elected leader.
And Blair achieved more for the Labour Party and the country than Corbyn will even if he lived till he was ten thousand years old.

The investment in schools, the NHS and public services was immense.

Corbyn will not achieve a millionth of that. In fact he will curse the poor and the public service and leave them open to pillage and plunder from an unopposed Tory party.

Every single person who supports Corbyn and votes for him is knowingly voting to feck the disadvantaged. Hope they are all happy with themselves.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by thebish » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:32 pm

Prufrock wrote:
thebish wrote:
Prufrock wrote:
It's a pathetic comparison. Margaret Thatcher wouldn't have a hope in hell of winning the Labour Party leadership. Pretty electable though. One is largely irrelevant to the other.
well - no! you can't win a general election if you can't get a party to elect you as leader! :conf:
Great, but it isn't an argument against someone saying Owen Smith would be far more electable in a GE as Labour leader.

it is - cos he didn't get elected as leader - he failed! he was the alternative! he failed. he's not electable as PM cos he failed to get elected as a party leader. FULL STOP!

(plus - even if he had been - are you telling me you actually think Owen Smith would have made labour electable?? what possible evidence is there for this?)
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:33 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Harry Genshaw wrote:When Blair was elected, the more left wing members of the party had to put aside some of their choices for the greater good. No new council house building, crackdown on welfare, pfi in the NHS etc. Now they have a left leaning leader, can't the centre ground of the party put aside some of their's? I don't get why a Labour supporter wouldn't vote for the party just because JC has been democratically elected leader.
Because it's not a football team. It's about voting for the good of the country. Anyone who voted Blair without thinking he was the best option for the country wants their bumps feeling.
Well yes if you're talking about floating voters but I don't see what policy changes JC and co will implement that wouldn't appeal to Labour supporters.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:34 pm

thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:Bish, quit the sniping, do you think Corbyn's Labour will win the next general election? Yes or no.
I think it is unlikely - as I have always said. I don't think it is impossible - 4yrs is a long time if that's how long we have to wait.

as for sniping - LOL!!!

you're the one sniping from the sidelines!
It is impossible. May could publically execute children of William and Kate and Labour still wouldn't win under Corbyn.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by thebish » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:34 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Harry Genshaw wrote:When Blair was elected, the more left wing members of the party had to put aside some of their choices for the greater good. No new council house building, crackdown on welfare, pfi in the NHS etc. Now they have a left leaning leader, can't the centre ground of the party put aside some of their's? I don't get why a Labour supporter wouldn't vote for the party just because JC has been democratically elected leader.
And Blair achieved more for the Labour Party and the country than Corbyn will even if he lived till he was ten thousand years old.

The investment in schools, the NHS and public services was immense.

Corbyn will not achieve a millionth of that. In fact he will curse the poor and the public service and leave them open to pillage and plunder from an unopposed Tory party.

Every single person who supports Corbyn and votes for him is knowingly voting to feck the disadvantaged. Hope they are all happy with themselves.

pillage and plunder from... errrr... the Tory party you just said you'd vote for?? how does that work??? :conf:
Some people are like Slinkies … not really good for anything, but you can’t help smiling when you see one tumble down the stairs.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by thebish » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:35 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:Bish, quit the sniping, do you think Corbyn's Labour will win the next general election? Yes or no.
I think it is unlikely - as I have always said. I don't think it is impossible - 4yrs is a long time if that's how long we have to wait.

as for sniping - LOL!!!

you're the one sniping from the sidelines!
It is impossible. May could publically execute children of William and Kate and Labour still wouldn't win under Corbyn.

I doubt she could... but - hey - you're a guy with serious opinions - I must learn to respect them! 8)
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:37 pm

thebish wrote:
Prufrock wrote:
thebish wrote:
Prufrock wrote:
It's a pathetic comparison. Margaret Thatcher wouldn't have a hope in hell of winning the Labour Party leadership. Pretty electable though. One is largely irrelevant to the other.
well - no! you can't win a general election if you can't get a party to elect you as leader! :conf:
Great, but it isn't an argument against someone saying Owen Smith would be far more electable in a GE as Labour leader.

it is - cos he didn't get elected as leader - he failed! he was the alternative! he failed. he's not electable as PM cos he failed to get elected as a party leader. FULL STOP!

(plus - even if he had been - are you telling me you actually think Owen Smith would have made labour electable?? what possible evidence is there for this?)
It isn't. That's not how conditional sentences work.

I don't think Owen Smith could have won (but then a superhybrid of the best bits of Atlee and Blair would probably screwed at this point), but I do think he would have done better than Corbyn will. And the party as a whole would be in a much better place to win next time.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:38 pm

thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Harry Genshaw wrote:When Blair was elected, the more left wing members of the party had to put aside some of their choices for the greater good. No new council house building, crackdown on welfare, pfi in the NHS etc. Now they have a left leaning leader, can't the centre ground of the party put aside some of their's? I don't get why a Labour supporter wouldn't vote for the party just because JC has been democratically elected leader.
And Blair achieved more for the Labour Party and the country than Corbyn will even if he lived till he was ten thousand years old.

The investment in schools, the NHS and public services was immense.

Corbyn will not achieve a millionth of that. In fact he will curse the poor and the public service and leave them open to pillage and plunder from an unopposed Tory party.

Every single person who supports Corbyn and votes for him is knowingly voting to feck the disadvantaged. Hope they are all happy with themselves.

pillage and plunder from... errrr... the Tory party you just said you'd vote for?? how does that work??? :conf:
Didn't say I'd vote Tory. I won't. But in terms of leadership, they are better equipped currently to run the country. Would I want them to? No. But on the whole balance of things, I'd not trust Corbyn to run a bath. He can't even run his own party. It is the biggest shambles ever.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by thebish » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:49 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote: Didn't say I'd vote Tory.

of course you didn't... errrrr.....
BWFC_Insane wrote:With a heavy heart if someone said to me tomorrow that I could directly choose the PM and it was either Corbyn or May, I'd put my personal politics aside and choose May. Because Corbyn would be a complete disaster for the country in my opinion. And that is my view as a Labour supporter.
dunno how you could choose May as PM without voting Tory... but.. hey ho!
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by bobo the clown » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:52 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:When Blair was elected, the more left wing members of the party had to put aside some of their choices for the greater good. No new council house building, crackdown on welfare, pfi in the NHS etc. Now they have a left leaning leader, can't the centre ground of the party put aside some of their's? I don't get why a Labour supporter wouldn't vote for the party just because JC has been democratically elected leader.
You are an exceptionally decent person who rarely sees the bad in people.

I genuinely think, as you watch what occurs in the coming 12 months, you'll be holding your head in your hands.

Only time will prove this ... though I'm correct ... and you're a big enough person to admit it in due course.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Nicko58 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:06 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Prufrock wrote:
Harry Genshaw wrote:When Blair was elected, the more left wing members of the party had to put aside some of their choices for the greater good. No new council house building, crackdown on welfare, pfi in the NHS etc. Now they have a left leaning leader, can't the centre ground of the party put aside some of their's? I don't get why a Labour supporter wouldn't vote for the party just because JC has been democratically elected leader.
Because it's not a football team. It's about voting for the good of the country. Anyone who voted Blair without thinking he was the best option for the country wants their bumps feeling.
Well yes if you're talking about floating voters but I don't see what policy changes JC and co will implement that wouldn't appeal to Labour supporters.
The withdrawal from NATO might be a red line for quite a few.

In any case, the surge in membership since Corbyn was elected suggests that many on the far left weren't prepared to put aside some of their principles when Blair was leader, doesn't it? I'd prefer it if people decide to remain as members instead of leaving but I can understand if they felt that the Labour Party had now become so divorced from their political views that they couldn't.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:07 pm

thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote: Didn't say I'd vote Tory.

of course you didn't... errrrr.....
BWFC_Insane wrote:With a heavy heart if someone said to me tomorrow that I could directly choose the PM and it was either Corbyn or May, I'd put my personal politics aside and choose May. Because Corbyn would be a complete disaster for the country in my opinion. And that is my view as a Labour supporter.
dunno how you could choose May as PM without voting Tory... but.. hey ho!
Totally different thing. That isn't about voting. That is about saying that the party I support has such bad leadership that it is a far worse bet than the current government in terms of leading the country.

I'd not vote Tory because principally I'm opposed to their mandate. But right now I couldn't in all consciousness give Corbyn a vote.

End of the day I'd not vote at all before I voted Tory. But I cannot say Corbyn would be better as a leader than May.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Nicko58 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:14 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Harry Genshaw wrote:When Blair was elected, the more left wing members of the party had to put aside some of their choices for the greater good. No new council house building, crackdown on welfare, pfi in the NHS etc. Now they have a left leaning leader, can't the centre ground of the party put aside some of their's? I don't get why a Labour supporter wouldn't vote for the party just because JC has been democratically elected leader.
And Blair achieved more for the Labour Party and the country than Corbyn will even if he lived till he was ten thousand years old.

The investment in schools, the NHS and public services was immense.

Corbyn will not achieve a millionth of that. In fact he will curse the poor and the public service and leave them open to pillage and plunder from an unopposed Tory party.

Every single person who supports Corbyn and votes for him is knowingly voting to feck the disadvantaged. Hope they are all happy with themselves.
No they aren't. The majority of those who support him do so because they genuinely believe that he best represents them. Their support could well turn out to have the unintended consequence of, as you put it, fecking the disadvantaged but for the most part it isn't done knowingly.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by thebish » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:20 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote: Didn't say I'd vote Tory.

of course you didn't... errrrr.....
BWFC_Insane wrote:With a heavy heart if someone said to me tomorrow that I could directly choose the PM and it was either Corbyn or May, I'd put my personal politics aside and choose May. Because Corbyn would be a complete disaster for the country in my opinion. And that is my view as a Labour supporter.
dunno how you could choose May as PM without voting Tory... but.. hey ho!
Totally different thing. That isn't about voting. That is about saying that the party I support has such bad leadership that it is a far worse bet than the current government in terms of leading the country.

I'd not vote Tory because principally I'm opposed to their mandate. But right now I couldn't in all consciousness give Corbyn a vote.

End of the day I'd not vote at all before I voted Tory. But I cannot say Corbyn would be better as a leader than May.

Hmmm.... you say the May's Tories will rape and pillage the country - and boo to Corbyn for not stopping them doing that (though how is not clear whilst in opposition) - and boo to corbyn for never being able to be PM - but if you could magically appoint one - you'd anoint May as PM... not Corbyn - you'd rather have a rapey and pillagey Tory PM than Corbyn...

you confuse me!

what does it mean to be principally opposed to someone's "mandate"??
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by bobo the clown » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:34 pm

^^ & YOU ought not describe someone who happens to be Tory as "rapey". Poor imagery. Very poor indeed.
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